CSC charge for slapping another boy on the butt

[anon2024]

I definitely got a bullying vibe...

I'm not even arguing that. The problem is that bullying shouldn't constitute these 2 charges.

 

[anon2024]

A question: Your son was 12 at the time. Did the incident that got reported to the police occur when your son was in elementary school? Were all of those involved in the same grade/same age or were some of the kids younger?

Yes, reported while in elementary school, and all were of the same age.

 

[quincy]

Both the criminal sexual conduct 4th degree (MCL §750.520e) and aggravated assault (MCL §750.81a) are charged as misdemeanors, with relatively small fines and up to a year in jail time as penalties. The penalties are not unusual but the elements of these charges that must be met to convict your son of these particular crimes do not appear to be present in what you’ve described of the butt-slapping incident and the bike incident.

It sounds like your son and the victim have very different memories of what happened, which is why witnesses are vital. Although your son’s public defender is undoubtedly a capable, competent and experienced lawyer, s/he is also undoubtedly juggling numerous other cases which limits the amount of time available to spend on each individual case, including your son’s case. If there is any way for you to get a private attorney involved, your son will get more attention.

https://legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-750-520E

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=mcl-750-81a

 

[anon2024]

Is the consensus here that the son is the bully and we aren't getting the real story?

He's not tattooed, smoking cigs, and finding people in the hallways to beat up. Was he possibly a bully in toward this kid, perhaps. Is the "full story" portrayed? Well, I did my best to present the facts as brief as I could. Does bullying in any fashion, minor or major, constitute the harshest charges available? My answer would be no. Did I discipline and teach my child that his alleged conduct is wrong? Yes. However, this discipline took place almost a year before charges were even brought up.

 

[anon2024]

Both the criminal sexual conduct 4th degree (MCL §750.520e) and aggravated assault (MCL §750.81a) are charged as misdemeanors, with relatively small fines and up to a year in jail time as penalties. The penalties are not unusual but the elements of these charges that must be met to convict your son of these particular crimes do not appear to be present in what you’ve described of the butt-slapping incident and the bike incident.

It sounds like your son and the victim have very different memories of what happened, which is why witnesses are vital. Although your son’s public defender is undoubtedly a capable, competent and experienced lawyer, s/he is also undoubtedly juggling numerous other cases which limits the amount of time available to spend on each individual case, including your son’s case. If there is any way for you to get a private attorney involved, your son will get more attention.

https://legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-750-520E

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=mcl-750-81a

Thank you. I value your input. My son may have been "bullying" and was in a trash-talk session with the "victim", and the end result was that he slapped the kid on the butt, allegedly. All of the witnesses are pretty much in agreement to that but not so much in agreement to what exactly led up to that. As for the bike incident, there are only 4 witnesses...my son, his co-defendant on that charge, the co-defendant's sister, and a friend of the "victim", the latter 2 of which have said that the victim took off on his bike, and fell...all on his own. Again, it's not clear why he fled...but short of threats or immediate physical threats, it shouldn't really matter or constitute such a charge. I'd guess they (son and co-defendant) were antagonizing the other kid, and he took off...and fell and broke his arm, unfortunately. That doesn't meet the elements of the crime. Unfortunately, they waited almost a year to bring these charges up, yet are rushing this case through. We are set for final status before trial next week. And...I can't swing money for an attorney no matter what I'd try.

 

[anon2024]

Thank you. I value your input. My son may have been "bullying" and was in a trash-talk session with the "victim", and the end result was that he slapped the kid on the butt, allegedly. All of the witnesses are pretty much in agreement to that but not so much in agreement to what exactly led up to that. As for the bike incident, there are only 4 witnesses...my son, his co-defendant on that charge, the co-defendant's sister, and a friend of the "victim", the latter 2 of which have said that the victim took off on his bike, and fell...all on his own. Again, it's not clear why he fled...but short of threats or immediate physical threats, it shouldn't really matter or constitute such a charge. I'd guess they (son and co-defendant) were antagonizing the other kid, and he took off...and fell and broke his arm, unfortunately. That doesn't meet the elements of the crime. Unfortunately, they waited almost a year to bring these charges up, yet are rushing this case through. We are set for final status before trial next week. And...I can't swing money for an attorney no matter what I'd try.

From what I gathered, there was a circle group of several kids, all laughing, joking, talking smack to each other. Maybe not in a mutual way. Maybe in a group vs. group way. One kid smacked another on the butt...everyone laughed. Another soon did the same to another kid. The "victim" slapped someone on the butt. Later, my son allegedly slapped the "victim" on the butt. "Victim" then went to the principal. No one was charged here except my son and his co-defendant. Apparently they both slapped the kids butt, allegedly. Nothing at all was ever said or brought about about anyone else who was slapping butts.

 

[stealth2]

The problem is that bullying shouldn't constitute these 2 charges.

It very well might - I suspect your son hasn't given you the whole story.

 

[anon2024]

It very well might - I suspect your son hasn't given you the whole story.

I could only get he story from a few of the kids that were either there or involved. Again, "bullying" is bullying...getting illegal forced sexual gratification, and almost putting someone in the hospital are relatively different things. THAT is why I would never take this to a jury trial. To many people wouldn't be able to differentiate.

 

[Zigner]

From what I gathered, there was a circle group of several kids, all laughing, joking, talking smack to each other. Maybe not in a mutual way. Maybe in a group vs. group way. One kid smacked another on the butt...everyone laughed. Another soon did the same to another kid. The "victim" slapped someone on the butt. Later, my son allegedly slapped the "victim" on the butt. "Victim" then went to the principal. No one was charged here except my son and his co-defendant. Apparently they both slapped the kids butt, allegedly. Nothing at all was ever said or brought about about anyone else who was slapping butts.

Where are you getting your information on what occurred?

 

[anon2024]

It very well might - I suspect your son hasn't given you the whole story.

I also want to note that the discovery package (police reports, etc.) don't say anything more harsh than I've already said.

 

[anon2024]

Where are you getting your information on what occurred?

Discovery, and 3 kids...

 

[stealth2]

Having read the rest of your posts (I didn't realize that they were there when I replied above), I suspect that your son (and his codefendant) have been painted as the instigators of the bullying. That no one touched the boy/caused him to fall off his bike may be less important if the victim was trying to get away from his bullies.

It does sound as though your son has a court-appointed attorney, so it might be wise for you to sit down and ask him specifically why he suggests accepting a plea deal instead of going to trial. He is in a better position to understand the climate in your area/the court wrt how such cases are dealt with (i.e. relative leniency vs hard-line "teach the kid a lesson").

Being positive and assuming your son gets off lightly (either via trial or plea), how do you intend to address his behavior/bullying?

 

[quincy]

… My son may have been "bullying" and was in a trash-talk session with the "victim", and the end result was that he slapped the kid on the butt, allegedly. Again, it's not clear why he fled...but short of threats or immediate physical threats, it shouldn't really matter or constitute such a charge. I'd guess they (son and co-defendant) were antagonizing the other kid, and he took off...and fell and broke his arm, unfortunately. That doesn't meet the elements of the crime. …

… "bullying" is bullying...getting illegal forced sexual gratification, and almost putting someone in the hospital are relatively different things. THAT is why I would never take this to a jury trial. To many people wouldn't be able to differentiate.

The prosecutor apparently believes the State has evidence to support the charges so there appears to be more going on with these kids than we currently know.

You mention that there was a physical injury that resulted (albeit indirectly) from the “bullying” of the one boy. The boy broke his arm in his attempt to flee on his bike from whatever he felt the need to flee from. That is significant.

Following is a link to MCL §380.1310b, Michigan’s anti-bullying law (also known as “The Matt Epling Safe School Law”):

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=mcl-380-1310b

If you cannot afford to hire a private attorney for your son, you should insist that his public defender spend the time necessary to explain everything that is going on in the case, including any proposed plea agreement, to your and your son’s full understanding. There should be a place in the courthouse where you/your son can meet with the public defender to privately discuss your concerns.

 

[stealth2]

Rereading, I'm further curious - has your son been in trouble before (in school or elsewhere) for bullying?

 

[commentator]

All the information we have on this incident must be filtered through the fact that this is coming to us from you, the alleged perpetrator's father. Who is getting his story from the alleged perpetrator and his closest friends. We do not see how you could be totally unbiased or expected to portray this story in anything other than the light most favorable to your son. And we cannot see these children. When my kids were this age, some of their peers were their current height and weight today and had to shave, and some of them looked like they should still be in third or fourth grade. That's the way it is in early adolescence. Fairly or unfairly, it would matter whether your son is an early bloomer or a small non threatening looking child for his age.

Then you have dropped us some more tidbits of information that make things more interesting. So this may have been more than just a casual gathering of peers, this may have been a group vs. group situation. And it appears that your son LATER slapped this boy on the butt, not exactly at the time of the rest of the interchanges? Anything in any middle or high school that sounds like group versus group interactions immediately sends off vibes of "gangs" which used to be such a huge thing. Slapping butts along with trash talking related to threats to the other person's posterior could sound like sexual harrassment. And then the boy was "fleeing" and fell off his bike and broke his arm. If this had been your son I suspect you'd have a very different perspective on it. Anything that remotely reminds people of gangs and sexual harrassment in schools is big and very important and can get a D.A. positive or negative attention. That they hung on to it a long time, possibly they may have been waiting to see if your son would do more things to get in trouble. They do that sometimes.

Public defenders are busy and sometimes not quite as good as a paid attorney, but they spend A LOT of their time in this particular court system. They develop a pretty good eye for how things may go, as I said, from the ground up. I would talk to the public defender, and get him to tell you why he wants to plead this as he does. And then, since you are not going to be able to afford another attorney, use him, take his word for this, accept what he says. Your son is very young to be having charges, perhaps they will think that if they "nip it in the bud" he will be more inclined not to be back in court with other problems. The more you fight it and defend him and argue that he is blameless and the charges are too harsh or unjustified, the harder the prosecutor will come at it, would be my guess.