An instant oil change place totaled our car - options?

[ecmst12]

If the light didn't go on until when you say, that means there was something wrong with the sensor, having nothing to do with the shop, and that GREATLY contributed towards the problem. If it had been working properly, then you could have taken care of the issue long before engine damage occurred.

 

[InsaneJane]

If the light didn't go on until when you say, that means there was something wrong with the sensor, having nothing to do with the shop, and that GREATLY contributed towards the problem. If it had been working properly, then you could have taken care of the issue long before engine damage occurred.

Disagree. The beering CAN spin in a matter of seconds after being starved of lubracation.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

My understanding is that Chrysler mini-vans are notorious for lighting up the idiot light AFTER the engine is damaged.

 

[somecallmejim]

That is a PERFECT example of the FACT that your car is worth nowhere NEAR $7,000.00

Have I stumbled upon a forum comprised entirely of trolls?

LET ME MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR: I AM NOT TRYING TO GET $7000, OR ANY ARBITRARY NUMBER OUT OF THESE PEOPLE. ALL I WANT IS TO BE MADE WHOLE, WHICH IN THIS CASE WOULD BE TO HAVE A RELIABLE 8-9 YEAR OLD VEHICLE THAT WAS IS IN GREAT CONDITION FOR IT'S AGE.

Seriously! I don't know why people are locking onto the number like a pitbull latches onto the neighbor kid. If the owner of the shop that did this damage can find me a van just like the one he killed and it only costs him $500, fine. I don't care. If He's willing to pay me the cost of a new engine transplant, which will run about $3k, that's fine too. At the end of the day, all I want is for my two car family to have two cars.

Seriously!

If the light didn't go on until when you say, that means there was something wrong with the sensor, having nothing to do with the shop, and that GREATLY contributed towards the problem. If it had been working properly, then you could have taken care of the issue long before engine damage occurred.

So then who is responsible? The mechanic who did our tune-up a little after the 100,000 mile point? Because I don't have the tools to diagnose a bad sensor, and there's no way to know that a sensor is bad until either someone with those tools tells you, or until this sort of thing happens. The bottom line is, does it really matter in regards to the case? Sure, if the sensor was working, and if this, and if that, and la la pie in the sky dreaming, no damage would have ever occurred, but those things didn't happen. What did happen was that a business changed my oil and in the process installed a bad filter. If that bad filter hadn't been installed, it wouldn't have mattered if the sensor was shot, because like every oil change before it, we'd have pulled in, and the oil on the dipstick would have been full in June. We can hyper-analyze the situation and blame every stoplight we passed on our trip down the road, but does it change the original guilty party in all of this? At all?

Sorry everyone if I sound a little crass. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just trying to figure out why people are getting so latched onto these issues that in my opinion have little to do with the situation at hand: I trusted someone to do a job, they did it poorly, as a result, I've been harmed. Do I have a case?

Thanks.

 

[xylene]

Do I have a case?

Answer:

Definite maybe. The oil shop clearly had negligence, but you kept driving which is an easy argument the shop can make as a defense. You made the damages worse. You being broke is irrelevant, so please desist from harping that.

Your damages are not the value of the van or a comparable van @ 7000

Your damages are not a new engine. @ 3000$

They did not damage a new engine - they damaged a high mileage engine that per all the data was nearing the end of its service life.

(The fact that a Honda Prelude squeaked out 350 k is not relevant. That isn't a Dodge. Not even a domestic car. The mileage endurance of one of the longest runners of cars made does not form a comparison point for the depreciated value of your engine.)

 

[Kiawah]

Not a lawyer, but personally I don't think you have a case as you are missing some very basic fundamentals:

a.) You have not proven what is wrong with the vehicle. All's you are reporting are the symptoms, and then somehow leaped to a conclusion of what the problem MUST be. There are many things that could cause a rough running engine. You don't know definitively what is wrong yet. You don't know whether it IS a camshaft bearing, an engine computer, a head gasket, a fuel injector, a bent rod, a valve, a crankshaft sensor, ayada yada yada.

b.) Since you don't definitively know what is wrong (the root cause of the engine running rough), you also don't know (or have proved) what the problem is, and then proven what caused the problem. Again, you have some assumptions, but you have no proof.

c.) Since you don't know the engine problem, you also don't know what repair options and costs are required to fix the problem. You have some assumptions as to what it would take. But lets say you have a bad valve, the cost to replace/resurface a valve, is different than the costs to repair a main crank journal.

I think you're going to have to spend some money to have the engine torn apart and analyzed, and give the oil change shop the capability to observe and inspect. It unfortunately might be throw away money, if it doesn't show you what you need to prove your current theory.

I could go on, but I think you're missing the very basics to even start.

 

[Zigner]

Let me say this one more time: You LEGAL remedy is to sue the bad guys for the damage. I would sue for the cost to rebuild the engine. You may get it, you may not.

The more EVIDENCE you have, the better your case.

You're right - the value of your vehicle does NOT come in to play (unless, of course, the actual value is less than the cost of the rebuilt engine).

 

[somecallmejim]

but you kept driving which is an easy argument the shop can make as a defense. You made the damages worse. You being broke is irrelevant, so please desist from harping that.

Okay, I can understand that they might try that as a defense, but after that first day, when the damage happened, and I consulted a friend of mine who happens to be a mechanic about getting it repaired and if we should just try not to drive it to minimize the cost of repairs, and this is almost a ver batim quote: "That motor's already got a death sentence on it. It might go 500 miles or 5,000, but the only fix is a complete rebuild or replacement". Point being, once the damage was done, the motor's fate was set. Even if my wife parked the car on the side of the road at the first hint of shuddering, it was too late for any reasonable fix.

Your damages are not the value of the van or a comparable van @ 7000

Your damages are not a new engine. @ 3000$

So then what ARE my damages? $50 and an apology letter? I'd be perfectly happy to have a used or rebuilt motor installed, but even that runs in the $2000 or more range. But having you stand there shouting "not good enough!" isn't helping me. What would be helpful would be a starting point. And I came to this forum for help. Just sayin'.

I think you're going to have to spend some money to have the engine torn apart and analyzed, and give the oil change shop the capability to observe and inspect.

And if the oil change guy wants to foot the bill to prove the source of the damage, then he can pay it. But I have two mechanics, one I know personally, and the other who as I said is as unbiased as any service man can be, both of which agree that the damage came from the oil issue. And any mechanic who starts the car will agree. The thing is, when you know cars, you know an engine with a bad valve won't run the same way an engine with a bad bearing will run. Both mechanics I've spoken with, both who have sat in the car and driven it, agree that this is a bad bearing that certainly slipped as a result of a lack of oil. So while I really do appreciate your armchair mechanical speculation from thousands of miles away, professionals who have sat in the car are willing to put their reputations on the line and sign papers saying that the oil situation has caused the motors death. That's good enough for me, and it's almost certainly going to be good enough for small claims court. If any lawyers/judges on this forum think I need more due diligence in that regard, I'll gladly have another mechanic come sit in the seat and add his name to the list, but aside from that, I'm not even going to bother addressing this issue again. It's about as open and shut as it comes.

 

[somecallmejim]

Let me say this one more time: You LEGAL remedy is to sue the bad guys for the damage. I would sue for the cost to rebuild the engine. You may get it, you may not.

The more EVIDENCE you have, the better your case.

You're right - the value of your vehicle does NOT come in to play (unless, of course, the actual value is less than the cost of the rebuilt engine).

Thank you Zigner, that's the sort of info I'm looking for. I don't want to take the owner to the cleaners, nor do I want a penny more than what it would cost to get me to where this mess started. I'm not one of those ridiculous people who want a brand new car and a pile of cash for emotional damage and a pile of cash for a rental and a pile of cash for good luck and a pile of cash for a pony. I really, honestly just want to be back to where I started off before this mess. I've run a business before, and so I know what it's like to have a stupid employee botch up a job, and the last thing I want is to do is make this owner spend a penny more than he aught to, but I think I have the right to be compensated for my damages here.

 

[Kiawah]

That's good enough for me, and it's almost certainly going to be good enough for small claims court

Okay good, then you're ready to go. Fill out the paperwork and get it scheduled.

This is a clean, open and shut case.

 

[InsaneJane]

I believe you are totally correct. Realize that nobody on the internet can diagnoise your engine trouble with the exception that it is a known fact that main beering failure can happen rapidly from loss of lubracation.
The knock is also easily diagnoised by knock location and simply verifing that all plugs are firing. Then momentarily disconnecting one plug wire at a time to see if the noise goes away. If the noise goes away (quites down), when a certain cylinder is not firing, then that is a spun rod bearing in that cylinder. That is because that cylinder will not apply the huge force on the beering race of that piston when it's not firing.
If it doesn't quite down during this test then it is a crank beering that has spun.

My advice is to take it to the dealer for diagnoises. Do not let them change the oil and filter. (~$45 to $100)

After that, go set up a meeting with the mngr/owner of the quick oil change place. You want to know what they want to do, and you want their insurance info to start a claim.

Don't offer more info then the dealers paper work, that you had the oil changed last at their place, the vehicle has always had service, you check the oil at fillups and add as needed...... Don't offer 'how much oil.'

The insurance adj will have a bunch of questions and will probably want to talk to the dealer. I recommend that you check out the dealer and if they are good let them do the work.
Also you are going to want to know from the dealer what extra charges that are not covered by the ins company prior to having them do the work. They may be willing to eat those costs to get the work...

Just my advice
Good luck.

 

[xylene]

But having you stand there shouting "not good enough!" isn't helping me. What would be helpful would be a starting point. And I came to this forum for help. Just sayin'.

Court, even small claims, is an adversarial process.

I'd love if you got a brand new 2011 Town and Country out of this stupidity.

But that isn't going to happen. and the oil change shop is not going to sit there looking guilty and saying nothing in court.

They will mount a defense and the best advice I can give you is to point out what they will probably base their case on - the weak points of your case.

Get a few estimates for used engines and installs vs. rebuild of your engine.

That seems like a reasonable approach. Have some verifiable data to assert the high side numbers you would want for the vehicles value and remaining life. (google has a treasure trove of info on these vans)

 

[InsaneJane]

One thing that keeps the engine from being prorated for previous milage, is that with propper oil changes, the main beerings are designed and know to out live the engine. It is very reasonable to project that the engine wouldn't need the crank redone if it hadn't been run without lubracation. Some parts to be replaced like coolant will probably need to be paid by others...

 

[somecallmejim]

xylene,

I do appreciate what you're saying, so hopefully I'm not coming across as a jerk in previous posts. Honestly, I'm mostly frustrated because this was the last thing we needed to deal with right now. The last day of our lease is August 31, and now someone else has caused the destruction of a reliable car, and honestly even I doubt that I'd stand a chance of winning this thing in a court setting even though I know with all my mind that they're at fault.

Anyway, thanks for playing devils advocate, and thanks for the advice in the last post.

-Jim