any defense?

[ezmarelda]

I am curious as to how one goes about driving or not driving sporatically

 

[vonnegutfan]

The town cops pulled me over because I was on a bike late at night. They can say what they want.

There is no way anyone can make me believe that I or anyone else should lose their job and liscense, attend meetings, and pay A LOT of money for making a mistake like this.

"Who SHOULD handle it? Mobile teams of alcohol counselors?"

Not a bad idea!

"Good. Maybe you have a line on someplace to do your community service, then."

Yeah, I do charity rides for VA hospitals and several other non-profit organizations, maybe just Community Service is a good answer.


"There is already a huge education push about the dangers of alcohol and drugs. And if a job and family is lost, it is NOT because of "a few drinks", it is because of the actions of the drivers."

NEVER have I EVER heard of anyone teaching about the laws of DUI. Also, as I said earlier, I was "speeding" without proof. People do it every day. Including you.

"I'll bet you said that with a laugh and a smile, too."

A little pissed at first. But, I'm laughing about it is as we speak.


Garrula,

"Many times, a drunk driver (car or mc) causes an accident & goes merrily along, too sloshed to realize what they did to other people, trying to avoid them."

Now THAT is an impossible statistic to track!!

 

[weenor]

The town cops pulled me over because I was on a bike late at night. They can say what they want.

There is no way anyone can make me believe that I or anyone else should lose their job and liscense, attend meetings, and pay A LOT of money for making a mistake like this.

"Who SHOULD handle it? Mobile teams of alcohol counselors?"

Not a bad idea!

"Good. Maybe you have a line on someplace to do your community service, then."

Yeah, I do charity rides for VA hospitals and several other non-profit organizations, maybe just Community Service is a good answer.


"There is already a huge education push about the dangers of alcohol and drugs. And if a job and family is lost, it is NOT because of "a few drinks", it is because of the actions of the drivers."

NEVER have I EVER heard of anyone teaching about the laws of DUI. Also, as I said earlier, I was "speeding" without proof. People do it every day. Including you.

"I'll bet you said that with a laugh and a smile, too."

A little pissed at first. But, I'm laughing about it is as we speak.


Garrula,

"Many times, a drunk driver (car or mc) causes an accident & goes merrily along, too sloshed to realize what they did to other people, trying to avoid them."

Now THAT is an impossible statistic to track!!

Dude, "de nial" isn't just a river in Egypt.

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

Those poor vets,.....I wonder if the VA knows of his mental and alcohol problems.

 

[CdwJava]

The town cops pulled me over because I was on a bike late at night. They can say what they want.

I thought they said they pulled you over for speed?

There is no way anyone can make me believe that I or anyone else should lose their job and liscense, attend meetings, and pay A LOT of money for making a mistake like this.

Many child molesters believe the same thing about their crimes ... it's only love, after all. Fortunately, the law doesn't care what the defendant thinks.

Maybe next time you won't drive inebriated. It's really quite simple. Try it.

"Who SHOULD handle it? Mobile teams of alcohol counselors?"

Not a bad idea!

Hah! I can see that now!

And when you say, "No thanks," to the counselors (which is what happens in 9 out of 10 such civil commits out here for public intoxication) what then? We just wait 'til you kill someone?

"Good. Maybe you have a line on someplace to do your community service, then."

Yeah, I do charity rides for VA hospitals and several other non-profit organizations, maybe just Community Service is a good answer.

Community service is part of the answer. But if your license is suspended you'll have to pass on the charity run ... maybe you can work at one end o rthe other of the run.

NEVER have I EVER heard of anyone teaching about the laws of DUI. Also, as I said earlier, I was "speeding" without proof. People do it every day. Including you.

I didn't say they teach about the DUI laws, they teach about the dangers of drugs and alcohol - including some of the possible legal ramifications. If you want to educate people on the laws, go right ahead. We don't educate on MANY laws. But it does not take a rocket scientist to know that you do not drink and drive.

And we don't need "proof" to make a stop, only reasonable suspicion. He doesn't have to prove that you were speeding, only that he believed you were exceeding the speed limit. That is sufficient to justify a stop to investigate further. Oddly enough, had he charged you solely with speeding he probably wouldn't be able to prove it sufficiently unless he has training in visual estimation (and if he were radar qualified, he likely DID). But, since all he needed was the speed to justify the stop, and it was after the stop that the intoxication was established, the stop was good.

"I'll bet you said that with a laugh and a smile, too."

A little pissed at first. But, I'm laughing about it is as we speak.

I would still be pissed. I don't know about you, but I don't excuse vandalism as a childish prank. If it does damage, it is criminal. It's one thing to tee-pee a house, it's quite another to break things on a car.

"Many times, a drunk driver (car or mc) causes an accident & goes merrily along, too sloshed to realize what they did to other people, trying to avoid them."

Now THAT is an impossible statistic to track!!

Not always ... we have caught quite a few after the fact.

Let me tell you that I once held the opinion that DUI was not all that serious ... that was until I was pulling the remains of a family from a van while the driver that swerved into their lane taking them out was standing behind me in cuffs screaming that HIS rights were being violated and that he should be given a ticket and sent home for an honest mistake!

I wanted to put my baton through his sinus cavity. Three dead ... and HE complained about HIS rights after HE butchered them!

Un-F'ing believeable!

- Carl

 

[vonnegutfan]

CdwJava, I am truly sorry you had to go through that. I'm so grateful that my girlfriend and her son weren't injured a few weeks ago by that girl on the cell-phone.

The part about child molesters is a little much. Violating the rights of a minor in such a way is not parallel, no matter what you say. Using psychologocal evaluation, you can distinguish serious mental problems in a child molestor who would do such a thing and claim it ot be ok. As you even said yourself, "Let me tell you that I once held the opinion that DUI was not all that serious".. This is a widely held opinion in plenty of sane people. I still believe these laws to be a little harsh.

If I can get a ride to the charity events this year, I may just work the ends. Not a bad idea.

As far as teaching about legal ramifications of DUI, I think it should definately be part of whatever programs they teach about drugs and alcohol. They chould try to scare the hell out of kids.

As far as the kids who stole my change and cd's and broke the cinder block, I can't be that pissed. At lest they didn't throw the cinder block at my windshield or something. Then I would have wanted them to have to pay for it for sure.


OK, so here's my new proposed law:
1st offense: 80 hours of community service mandatory. 6 month conditional work license mandatory. Mandatory evaluation and appropriate counseling. $500 fine.

2nd offense: Double the first.

3rd offense: Triple the first.

If any of the above are not met satisfactory, proceed with total license loss/jail time/increased fines etc.

 

[moburkes]

CdwJava, I am truly sorry you had to go through that. I'm so grateful that my girlfriend and her son weren't injured a few weeks ago by that girl on the cell-phone.

The part about child molesters is a little much. Violating the rights of a minor in such a way is not parallel, no matter what you say. Using psychologocal evaluation, you can distinguish serious mental problems in a child molestor who would do such a thing and claim it ot be ok. As you even said yourself, "Let me tell you that I once held the opinion that DUI was not all that serious".. This is a widely held opinion in plenty of sane people. I still believe these laws to be a little harsh.

If I can get a ride to the charity events this year, I may just work the ends. Not a bad idea.

As far as teaching about legal ramifications of DUI, I think it should definately be part of whatever programs they teach about drugs and alcohol. They chould try to scare the hell out of kids.

As far as the kids who stole my change and cd's and broke the cinder block, I can't be that pissed. At lest they didn't throw the cinder block at my windshield or something. Then I would have wanted them to have to pay for it for sure.


OK, so here's my new proposed law:
1st offense: 80 hours of community service mandatory. 6 month conditional work license mandatory. Mandatory evaluation and appropriate counseling. $500 fine.

2nd offense: Double the first.

3rd offense: Triple the first.

If any of the above are not met satisfactory, proceed with total license loss/jail time/increased fines etc.

So the man who killed 3 people should have receive community service and a $500 fine, since it was his first offense?

 

[vonnegutfan]

No, the appropriate manslaughter charges and reckless driving laws etc. should also apply.

 

[Happy Trails]

No, the appropriate manslaughter charges and reckless driving laws etc. should also apply.

Well, this isn't the first time you have been driving intoxicated; it is the second time you have been caught though.

You had to of known what the consequences were.

 

[CdwJava]

CdwJava, I am truly sorry you had to go through that. I'm so grateful that my girlfriend and her son weren't injured a few weeks ago by that girl on the cell-phone.

In most states driving with a cell phone is not a crime - driving DUI is.

Plus, idiots who drive with cell phones can hang up and are normal again ... drivers that are inebriated will remain that way for some time.

"Let me tell you that I once held the opinion that DUI was not all that serious".. This is a widely held opinion in plenty of sane people. I still believe these laws to be a little harsh.

I believe they are way too lax. Fortunately my side of the aisle has the upper hand and likely will retain it. While I may not get the harsher penalties and lower 'per se' BAC levels I would like to see, you DEFINITELY will no see a relaxing of the DUI laws. It's not a winning campaign issue to push for relaxed DUI laws. The drunk vote just isn't seen as a viable voting bloc.

As far as teaching about legal ramifications of DUI, I think it should definately be part of whatever programs they teach about drugs and alcohol. They chould try to scare the hell out of kids.

It IS part of most programs ... in general. They do not tend to go into specifics, only generalities of the legal consequences. The details are usually beyond the scope of most kids' heads and they would tend to glaze over much of the detail anyway.

As far as the kids who stole my change and cd's and broke the cinder block, I can't be that pissed.

I would be. Today it's your CDs, tomorrow your neighbor's stereo, next week another neighbor's car, and eventually knocking off a liquor store.

Petty crimes lead to bigger crimes. It's better to hit them hard when they are young then to let them get away with it and learn that the system really can't do anything to them (which is the sad state of affiars at least in CA's juvenile justice system).

OK, so here's my new proposed law:
1st offense: 80 hours of community service mandatory. 6 month conditional work license mandatory. Mandatory evaluation and appropriate counseling. $500 fine.

And mine (off the top of my head): First offense 30 days in jail, 2 years probation, mandatory license suspension for 6 months, counseling, and a fine of ... oh ... say $1,000 plus court costs, agency cost recovery, and contribution to the state victim's restitution fund.

2nd offense: Double the first.

3rd offense: Triple the first.

You just don't like them to go to jail, do you.

What if they don't pay the fine? Or don't follow the license restriction? Or go to counseling? Since your system doesn't have a suspended sentence or probation, there would be NOTHING that could be done to them unless they create an all new criminal charge for failing to follow those penalties.

Fortunately, the law (and this site) concerns the status of current law - not the law as it "should" be (as decided by a few).

- Carl

 

[AHA]

Jesus, five days of kicking a dead horse. Can this thread go away already? Isn't there lives to be lived or something?????? Stupidity Central needs to close!!!!

 

[CdwJava]

Jesus, five days of kicking a dead horse. Can this thread go away already? Isn't there lives to be lived or something?????? Stupidity Central needs to close!!!!

I'm married with a few children ... I work 60 hours each week ... volunteer in the community ... and have boys to take to multiple sporting events when I AM off ...

I don't know about the others, but I HAVE no life!

Well, okay - I have a life ... I just don't have much spare time. So, on occasion, I kick dead horses for jollies.

- Carl

 

[ezmarelda]

I still want to know...how one goes about driving or not driving sporatically

 

[vonnegutfan]

"In most states driving with a cell phone is not a crime - driving DUI is."
Because it's the law!! HAHA
Why shouldn't it be handled just like a DUI? The same goes for people who, and I'm sure you've seen them too, who drive reading a newspaper or a book or a map or a crossword puzzle?? I knew a guy who wasn't watching the road because he was looking under the seat for a cd and collided with a woman head-on who had two babies in the car. Don't you think it is all these people's responsibility to watch the road when they're operating a several thousand pound machine. How about the guy who knows he's too tired to be driving but does it anyway and falls asleep at the wheel??
ALL of these people made a decision to do what they do, and they get into accidents because they are IRRESPONSIBLE! They MADE A DECISION to do it. Why shouldn't they be held to the same punishment as a DUI offender?

"The drunk vote just isn't seen as a viable voting bloc"
Oh, that's a classic cop superiority complex there. Have you ever had a few beers, any time in your life, and drove an automobile? You don't have to answer, you pitiful drunk, I already know the answer.
I was fishing all evening with a couple of friends, and drinking beer. Obviously, I had too much. Mistake, yes. Drunk, no. Regardless, alcoholism is an addiction and should be treated as such. And these state alcohol programs don't work. The only one that has any chance is AA. You know why? Because it's spiritual.

"It IS part of most programs ... in general. They do not tend to go into specifics, only generalities of the legal consequences. The details are usually beyond the scope of most kids' heads and they would tend to glaze over much of the detail anyway."

Bull. "you could get in trouble" is the most I've ever seen or heard.

"And mine (off the top of my head): First offense 30 days in jail, 2 years probation, mandatory license suspension for 6 months, counseling, and a fine of ... oh ... say $1,000 plus court costs, agency cost recovery, and contribution to the state victim's restitution fund."

What if it was your kid who went to a party with his friends or a bar in college and lost EVERYTHING because of it. It would be a whole different story then. And don't say "Oh, they know better than that because I taught them better" or some such other bull. THIS CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE! Alcohol only makes stupid decisions easier. What's the excuse for the guy reading and driving at the same time? Maybe he should be held to a higher standard.


"You just don't like them to go to jail, do you."

No, I don't. I don't want your kids to be bunked with a violent *******, just as I don't want mine.

How many times in your life have you been to a business dinner and seen maybe 25 people drink 4 or 5 drinks. How many times have you seen a wedding reception. How many times have you seen a christmas party. LOCK 'EM ALL UP, I SAY!!! THEY'RE CRIMINALS!!!

Oh, and one side question for you. Was your barracks breathalyzer paid for by a large insurance company. I got into a long conversation one time with this cop who said some insurance companies are offering supplies and new breathalyzers etc. to police departments for the "obvious" reason.

 

[moburkes]

"In most states driving with a cell phone is not a crime - driving DUI is."
Because it's the law!! HAHA
Why shouldn't it be handled just like a DUI? The same goes for people who, and I'm sure you've seen them too, who drive reading a newspaper or a book or a map or a crossword puzzle?? I knew a guy who wasn't watching the road because he was looking under the seat for a cd and collided with a woman head-on who had two babies in the car. Don't you think it is all these people's responsibility to watch the road when they're operating a several thousand pound machine. How about the guy who knows he's too tired to be driving but does it anyway and falls asleep at the wheel??
ALL of these people made a decision to do what they do, and they get into accidents because they are IRRESPONSIBLE! They MADE A DECISION to do it. Why shouldn't they be held to the same punishment as a DUI offender?

"The drunk vote just isn't seen as a viable voting bloc"
Oh, that's a classic cop superiority complex there. Have you ever had a few beers, any time in your life, and drove an automobile? You don't have to answer, you pitiful drunk, I already know the answer.
I was fishing all evening with a couple of friends, and drinking beer. Obviously, I had too much. Mistake, yes. Drunk, no. Regardless, alcoholism is an addiction and should be treated as such. And these state alcohol programs don't work. The only one that has any chance is AA. You know why? Because it's spiritual.

"It IS part of most programs ... in general. They do not tend to go into specifics, only generalities of the legal consequences. The details are usually beyond the scope of most kids' heads and they would tend to glaze over much of the detail anyway."

Bull. "you could get in trouble" is the most I've ever seen or heard.

"And mine (off the top of my head): First offense 30 days in jail, 2 years probation, mandatory license suspension for 6 months, counseling, and a fine of ... oh ... say $1,000 plus court costs, agency cost recovery, and contribution to the state victim's restitution fund."

What if it was your kid who went to a party with his friends or a bar in college and lost EVERYTHING because of it. It would be a whole different story then. And don't say "Oh, they know better than that because I taught them better" or some such other bull. THIS CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE! Alcohol only makes stupid decisions easier. What's the excuse for the guy reading and driving at the same time? Maybe he should be held to a higher standard.


"You just don't like them to go to jail, do you."

No, I don't. I don't want your kids to be bunked with a violent *******, just as I don't want mine.

How many times in your life have you been to a business dinner and seen maybe 25 people drink 4 or 5 drinks. How many times have you seen a wedding reception. How many times have you seen a christmas party. LOCK 'EM ALL UP, I SAY!!! THEY'RE CRIMINALS!!!

Oh, and one side question for you. Was your barracks breathalyzer paid for by a large insurance company. I got into a long conversation one time with this cop who said some insurance companies are offering supplies and new breathalyzers etc. to police departments for the "obvious" reason.

You are correct, people shouldn't reach for CDs, read newpapers, put on makeup, etc while they are driving. They shouldn't do it.

However, it doesn't change the fact that when you got on your motorcycle, you were legally drunk, and you got caught. If you want to change the laws, then do it. But the laws about drunk driving existed before you got on your motorcycle, and you chose to ignore them. Then you got caught. Then you decided that the laws were BS. Isn't that interesting? However, I'm done with this thread. You'll be talking to yourself from now on.