Bad Doctor???

[panzertanker]

panzertanker
Above is the text from Yahoo health. I do not believe you will disagree with their information, at least not from a medical viewpoint. As stated above, it is an acceptable diagnostic tool, part of the work-up, not a replacement for a lumbar puncture.

EC

You stated:

"An MRI or CT scan, or both, of the brain is considered an acceptable diagnostic tool for meningitis (reference Yahoo health, meningitis, signs and tests); neither is equal to the lumbar puncture in providing quick test results and neither will provide a measurement of cerebrospinal pressure."

You never stated part of the work-up, you insinuated that they were acceptable in absence of an LP. That is simply not true. Early meningitis can and usually is not able to be diagnosed by anything OTHER than an LP.

Should you like to argue the point, just clarify your position and make your statement more clear. I dropped it by saying, "thank you for clarifying", why won't you?
If you are bitter, do not direct it at me.

The other fallacy is that "neither is equal to the LP in providing quick test results and neither will provide a measurement of CSF pressure"

the fallacy is that NEITHER provide the same type of RESULT, let alone ICP. LP is used for gram staining, glucose, pressure, color/clarity among other things. A CT/MRI DO NONE OF THESE THINGS.
So you see, argue all you want but you are incorrect. Now, Let it GO.

 

[panzertanker]

Just a quick question:
How many LP's have you performed?

 

[ellencee]

How many have I performed? How many have you performed without the assistance of an RN or other allied health professional?

I specialized in Pediatrics, so I assure you, from internship forward and throughout my career, in my professional capacity, I have been there and done that in many, many suspected meningitis cases involving newborns, infants, toddlers, children, teenagers, young adults, adults, and the elderly. Happy now?

EC

 

[ellencee]

An MRI or CT scan, or both, of the brain is considered an acceptable diagnostic tool for meningitis (reference Yahoo health, meningitis, signs and tests); neither is equal to the lumbar puncture in providing quick test results and neither will provide a measurement of cerebrospinal pressure.

panzertanker
You are intentionally misrepresenting what I said. Your motives are quite obvious...

EC

 

[panzertanker]

How many have I performed? How many have you performed without the assistance of an RN or other allied health professional?

I specialized in Pediatrics, so I assure you, from internship forward and throughout my career, in my professional capacity, I have been there and done that in many, many suspected meningitis cases involving newborns, infants, toddlers, children, teenagers, young adults, adults, and the elderly. Happy now?

EC

None, I have always had a nurse/allied health prof assist me.
My point was: Did you EVER hear an MD/DO substitute a CT for an LP?
As a Legal Nurse Consultant, you should know that THAT would be negligence,and a deviation from Standard of Care.

I pointed out, rightly so, that Yahoo Health should not be a particular place you cite, ESPECIALLY as a LNC.

No, I am not happy. You are taking this too personal. Lighten up. We are trying to give the best info to the OP, and I merely pointed out your wording was confusing. I made no personal attacks, and just was curious how many LP's you have performed.

If you would like to just agree to disagree, I am fine with that, however use standard medical references when posting to the OP. Those other sites are "dumbed down" and do not help when an OP is contemplating a lawsuit.....

 

[ellencee]

It isn't the fact that an MRI was done or that a CT scan was done; it is that a LUMBAR PUNCTURE WAS NOT DONE.

I think I know what to do with your advice and/or instructions. Yep, got it.

geez, louise...

EC

 

[panzertanker]

panzertanker
You are intentionally misrepresenting what I said. Your motives are quite obvious...

EC

Read my other posts where I say that you should not take this personal. You are. That is not my fault.
I do not have "obvious" motives, other than to give the OP the best knowledge. We are talking about people who are contemplating SUING someone!!!!
"It isn't the fact that an MRI was done or that a CT scan was done; it is that a LUMBAR PUNCTURE WAS NOT DONE."
My point exactly! You told OP that "An MRI or CT scan, or both, of the brain is considered an acceptable diagnostic tool for meningitis (reference Yahoo health, meningitis, signs and tests);"
I am not intentionally misrepresenting ANYTHING you said. I pointed out that you needed to CLARIFY.
Give it a rest, hang your conspiracy theories up. I am through posting on this thread.
DAMN....

You react this way when anyone points out your mistakes.....?

 

[sam smithers]

As I mentioned before there was no mention of a LP before day #3 by the doctors. The night he went into the hospital after the doctor came in and informed us of the amenia he said that the pain was probably caused by the anemia. Thats bull !! The anemia causes weakness and sleepiness.

 

[panzertanker]

Unfortunately, Ellen, A CT or MRI is only used for advanced cases to ascertain if there is brain involvement.
Yahoo health has it WRONG, I did not bother to go to their site.
The CDC, NIH, WHO, and respected meningitis organizations all agree:

The ONLY definitive diagnostic tool that will tell me if you have meningitis (absent a brain lesion or such classic s/s that I tx you for it regardless) IS AN LP!!!!

go to my first link, and here are others.:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/meningococcal_g.htm#How is meningitis diagnosed

http://www.nmaus.org/about/index.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/revb/enterovirus/viral_meningitis.htm

Sam,
use these links to see if your brother met any of the criteria for a possible meningitis workup. Gather your records together, and tell me "who was negligent?"
I will ask this one more time...
"WHAT WAS THE CAUSE OF DEATH ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATE ISSUED BY THE CORONER/PCP TO THE STATE?"

Answer the question and you might get better help. Ellen, Rmet and I are working in the blind b/c you make accusations about missed dx for meningitis b/c no LP, but you have not stated ACTUAL cause of death.
If he died of meningitis, sure, I would RUN to a medmal attorney. But without that info, you aren't helping us help you....

 

[sam smithers]

Some one asked about the result of the ct that was preformed. the day that the ct was done there were no results available because they had to be read by a doctor in another town so the results weren't availablt til the next day and the results were that there was probably swelling in the brain area but by this time it was to late, the DAMAGE WAS DONE.

 

[panzertanker]

Some one asked about the result of the ct that was preformed. the day that the ct was done there were no results available because they had to be read by a doctor in another town so the results weren't availablt til the next day and the results were that there was probably swelling in the brain area but by this time it was to late, the DAMAGE WAS DONE.

I did not ask about the CT



"WHAT WAS THE CAUSE OF DEATH ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATE ISSUED BY THE CORONER/PCP TO THE STATE?"

 

[rmet4nzkx]

As I mentioned before there was no mention of a LP before day #3 by the doctors. The night he went into the hospital after the doctor came in and informed us of the amenia he said that the pain was probably caused by the anemia. Thats bull !! The anemia causes weakness and sleepiness.

Anemia can cause pain and a lot of other problems. You need to answer some of the questions we asked.

My son couldn't talk, he had symptoms of meningitis, they gave him an LP right in the doctor's office, he had something else.

Your brother may have believed he had meningitis but apparently didn't have the clinical signs for meningitis that is why they didn't give him a LP. You have never said that he even had meningitis only that they didn't try to diagnosis it, that is not negligent if he didn't have the clinical signs. Did he have a fever when he first came to the ER?

He didn't respond to medication for meningitis.

You don't give an LP unless there is reason. They can't just do every test in the book, they have to eliminate some things and take care of obvious things like the anemia which can all by it's self cause serious damage.

What were your brother's medical problems, what did his doctor say?

 

[sam smithers]

What meds of meningitis ? they never gave him anything but the blood and N/S until he went into respiratory srrest then they started the antibodics there was never any mention of anything as to what was going on until this point. Then it was well let's try to figure out what was causing this problem. And as far as the anemia yea, and it can cause some slight discomfort, but we are talking severe pain, no not by anemia. I've been an E.M.T. for over 15 years and I've seen a lot of things but only have I seen this kind of pain in the neck region only as a product of an infection such as meningitis.

 

[sam smithers]

I guess I'm just looking at this thing from" inside the box" but if the possibility of meningitis is there then why not check when the symptoms are there?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

If you are an EMT why can't you answer the questions?
What do you think they treat meningitis with?
Please go back through the thread and answer the questions.
You brother died, but you have not even told us the COD, why not?
Did your brother have a spinal injury? Neurological condition?