Boat as primary vehicle with resource limited SSI

[jbsdf]

Currently in the process of acquiring a boat for use for transportation. The value will be over $2000. It will be purchased with the combination of a lump sum back payment recently received, and the pandemic assistance check everyone got.
My attorney is currently in and out of vacation and is either unable or unwilling to do extended research on the subject. He has taken the time to send me some resources but for the most part I am having to do my own research. He has advised me not to contact SSA yet until I completely confirm my findings. Time is of the essence here, as the boat will go to someone else if I do not act quickly. There are multiple offers. Owner is wanting to close on a different more expensive boat, and needs the money from this one to do so.
My research is as follows:

SSI allows the recipient to own one vehicle regardless of value if it is used as transportation, as shown here: https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/text-resources-ussi.htm
Relevant text from that link:
WHAT RESOURCES DO NOT COUNT FOR SSI?
For SSI, we do not count:

• the home you live in and the land it is on;
• one vehicle, regardless of value, if you or a member of your household use it for transportation;

I was originally worried that a boat would not be considered a vehicle, and rather a vessel or something else that wouldn't qualify. Upon further research this does not appear to be the case. https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0501130200#e
Important info in that link:

B. Definitions for automobile exclusion
1. Automobile
For Supplemental Security Income (SSI) purposes, “automobile” means any registered or unregistered vehicle used for transportation. Vehicles used for transportation include but are not limited to cars, trucks, motorcycles, boats, snowmobiles, animal-drawn vehicles, and even animals.

My other vehicle (car) was valued at $500 when I bought it and has since sustained significant cosmetic and functional damage, further lowering its market value.


Seems like I should have all my bases covered here, all the sources I got my information from are from up to date documents found directly on the official SSA website and/or current POMS. As long as I keep the rest of my resources including my car under 2000, (which will not be a problem) it looks like I should be just fine.

The only potential red flag I see is that the title the current/previous owner has "primary use" listed as "pleasure" on his title. At the licensing office they should be able to change that particular field to say "transportation" for my title when I register it.

Update: I contacted a title/licensing office, they said that "pleasure" is standard, and what they list for every boat they have seen. I asked her if she could change that to transportation, but they said they will have to come in person so they can make the proper calls to figure this out. Will do this Tomorrow. But If this is standard for all boats and cannot be changed (which could be the case) then It shouldn't be a disqualifying factor for SSI, as a boat is clearly considered a vehicle in the automobile exclusion.
https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0501130200#e

I am looking for anyone else's experience with this sort of situation, and if there is any further information I should know about this process, and/or experience of having a boat as your "one vehicle regardless of value"

The general idea I have gotten from reading these forums, and a few other resources online is that they will take your highest valued vehicle and exclude it, provided it is used for transportation. I am not in a landlocked state, in fact I am right on the coast, so transportation via water is completely viable and realistic.

The other question is, will I need to report the acquisition of the boat to SSA? or as long as I am following the resource guidelines as I am, will I be ok?

Any information and advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for any and all help and/or insight!

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

What state are you in?

 

[Zigner]

You cannot afford a boat. Really.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Boat: A hole in the water you dump money into.

 

[Taxing Matters]

If you actually use the boat primarily for transportation it should count as a vehicle and its value should be included in your total assets for SSI qualification purposes, assuming you have no other vehicles.

 

[adjusterjack]

My other vehicle (car) was valued at $500 when I bought it and has since sustained significant cosmetic and functional damage, further lowering its market value.

But you still have it and can still drive it?

 

[jbsdf]

What state are you in?

WA. I hear you guys, I have taken this all into consideration. Still not discouraged. I have had it looked at by professionals and she is a solid vessel and a great deal. I can afford the upkeep, although just barely. She will also serve as a secondary home, so there are other benefits besides transportation.

If you actually use the boat primarily for transportation it should count as a vehicle and its value should be included in your total assets for SSI qualification purposes, assuming you have no other vehicles.

Do you mean to say that it's value should not be included in my total assets for SSI qualification as per the one vehicle exclusion I linked to in the original post?
This is what I have come up with on my own research, its good to hear someone else saying the same thing. I think that is what you mean to say anyways?
The plan has always been to use it for transportation, there are a lot of places to go on the water around here, and I have family who lives across the water from where I do.
Do you know if the title saying "pleasure" as primary purpose will matter, as I am not 100% sure I can get the licensing place to change that. They claim that all boats they have seen are marked as "pleasure" on that field, and they will have to make some special calls in order to see if it is possible. I am going there tomorrow to find this out, but it sounds like it is an odd request from what they were saying. I am wondering if it is absolutely necessary, as it may be a lot of extra trouble, or not even possible. This is why I ask if it is absolutely necessary for it to say "transportation" on the title.

As far as other vehicles I have one (car) that is valued at $500 maybe less now. Should be easy to keep total resources under 2000.
From my understanding the vehicle exclusion does not necessarily mean I can only have one vehicle, only that one vehicle can be excluded from resource limit. Is this correct?
Will I need to notify the SSA of the vehicle acquisition? or as long as I'm following the rules, which I am, should I just go on doing so?

But you still have it and can still drive it?

Yes it is not pretty, but drive-able. The damage is mostly cosmetic. Engine is strong. I expect it to last me many more years, which is fortunate as finding another functional vehicle under my resource limit would be problematic. Not to mention affording it would be difficult.

I am looking hopefully for anyone who has been in a similar situation or knows the law any better than myself and/or my attorney who hasn't been terrible helpful, leading me to figure this situation out on my own.
Thank you guys for the info and insight. Keep in mind I have already figured out all the financial side of things. My only concern at this point is legal viability, which from what I understand should not be an issue. Any further info and insight is greatly appreciated.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Do you know if the title saying "pleasure" as primary purpose will matter, as I am not 100% sure I can get the licensing place to change that.

Generally with this kind of thing what matters is substance over form, i.e. what's most important is how you actually use boat, not what label for use is slapped on the title. This is particularly true if the practice of the state is just to label all boats as pleasure craft as a matter of course.

 

[Zigner]

This is particularly true if the practice of the state is just to label all boats as pleasure craft as a matter of course.

Exactly - except it's more that "If it's not a commercial vessel, then it's a pleasure vessel".

 

[adjusterjack]

The plan has always been to use it for transportation, there are a lot of places to go on the water around here, and I have family who lives across the water from where I do.

Sorry but, to me, that doesn't pass the smell test. What do you use to get yourself from place to place on land? Your car?

You can only have one transportation vehicle according to what you have posted.

Are you getting rid of your car?

 

[jbsdf]

Generally with this kind of thing what matters is substance over form, i.e. what's most important is how you actually use boat, not what label for use is slapped on the title. This is particularly true if the practice of the state is just to label all boats as pleasure craft as a matter of course.

I figured as much when they told me basically all boats are listed as pleasure.

Sorry but, to me, that doesn't pass the smell test. What do you use to get yourself from place to place on land? Your car?

You can only have one transportation vehicle according to what you have posted.

Are you getting rid of your car?

Thank you for the thoughts, this is what I am looking for, is to look at this from all angles. What I posted is one transportation vehicle that is not counted towards your $2000 resource limit. So no I am not getting rid of my car. My car will then be a second vehicle which I use to travel on land, and will then be counted as a resource under my limit. Luckily it is only a $500 valued car, and easily fits under my resource limit.

Generally with this kind of thing what matters is substance over form, i.e. what's most important is how you actually use boat, not what label for use is slapped on the title. This is particularly true if the practice of the state is just to label all boats as pleasure craft as a matter of course.

Exactly - except it's more that "If it's not a commercial vessel, then it's a pleasure vessel".

This is where things get fuzzy. I wish my attorney were more helpful. Any of ya'll know an attorney in WA who might be able to give me a quick consultation so I can clear some of these things up for good? I am running out of time.
Thanks again, of course any more help and insight is greatly appreciated!

 

[Zigner]

I figured as much when they told me basically all boats are listed as pleasure.

Thank you for the thoughts, this is what I am looking for, is to look at this from all angles. What I posted is one transportation vehicle that is not counted towards your $2000 resource limit. So no I am not getting rid of my car. My car will then be a second vehicle which I use to travel on land, and will then be counted as a resource under my limit. Luckily it is only a $500 valued car, and easily fits under my resource limit.



This is where things get fuzzy. I wish my attorney were more helpful. Any of ya'll know an attorney in WA who might be able to give me a quick consultation so I can clear some of these things up for good? I am running out of time.
Thanks again, of course any more help and insight is greatly appreciated!

I think you will have an exceedingly difficult time trying to convince the powers that be that your boat is your main means of transportation while you also own a car.

 

[jbsdf]

I think you will have an exceedingly difficult time trying to convince the powers that be that your boat is your main means of transportation while you also own a car.

Apologies, post title is a bit misleading in that regard. I should have worded it differently. Again I appreciate any analysis on the situation at hand, this is why I am here.

WHAT RESOURCES DO NOT COUNT FOR SSI?
For SSI, we do not count:

• the home you live in and the land it is on;
• one vehicle, regardless of value, if you or a member of your household use it for transportation;

It does not say that the excluded vehicle has to be your main means of transportation, only that you, or even a member of your household use it for transportation.
If I am not gravely misunderstanding something here you could in theory have a horse worth $10,000 as your excluded vehicle, and 3 cars each worth $300 and still be under the resource limit. In this highly theoretical situation you would likely use one or more of the cars for the majority of transportation say for traveling on roads, but you (or a member of your household) use the horse to travel, say out in the the country occasionally.

I use the horse as an odd/extreme example, but according to the automobile exclusion it's value would be excluded from your resource limit. Your cars would be counted as resources, but based on their extremely low value you would still be well under the $2000 resource limit provided you didn't have more than $1100 in other resources that would put you over.

B. Definitions for automobile exclusion
1. Automobile
For Supplemental Security Income (SSI) purposes, “automobile” means any registered or unregistered vehicle used for transportation. Vehicles used for transportation include but are not limited to cars, trucks, motorcycles, boats, snowmobiles, animal-drawn vehicles, and even animals.

I am speaking based on my research of the resources posted, which are up to date, and directly from the SSA.
Then again I am not an attorney, and therefore why I am here asking these questions. Please don't take any of this personally. I am only here to try and confirm my findings, and run them past some other legally minded individuals, or maybe even attorney(s) if I get lucky. I genuinely appreciate any and all help.

As of yet I don't see anything that says this is not doable. Everything I have seen so far seems to say that this is within the law. If you disagree, please do share!

I am still hoping to find someone else who is or has been, or knows someone in this particular situation. I can't be the only poor boater/sailor out there!
Also any further resources I may not have come across yet would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Zigner]

I get it - you're trying to pull a fast one and hoping that the gubment won't catch on. Best of luck to ya!

 

[jbsdf]

I get it - you're trying to pull a fast one and hoping that the gubment won't catch on. Best of luck to ya!

Not at all. I wouldn't even be considering it if I thought it was anything of the sort. Everything I have suggested is within the law and all the official guidelines. I don't understand what you are referring to. My extreme example of the horse may seem that way, but even still it would be within the law. It clearly states "Even Animals" But that was an example meant to clarify the law, not as an actual plan of mine.
Please clarify exactly how I am trying to pull a fast one, and I will gladly consider your advice, that's what I am here for. I have not seen anything to suggest this though. I am simply trying to make sure that what the law states, is what the law is. I really shouldn't even have to be asking as it pretty clearly states that boats can count under the automobile exclusion. Its just that the law is not always as cut and dry as it may appear. Which is why I am here.