confusing issue about will/house

[CaringforMom]

hello
okay i understand about the trust being divided its what i thought after reading the document

what im confused about is the 1/6 parts of the other half
does the widow recieve that part or my uncles daughter? i ask this because in the will it states
"provided further that if any of my children who predeceased me and leave no issue then thier share shall go to thier surviving siblings and the issue of deceased siblings by right of representation"
what exactly does that mean? i was thinking it meant the share goes to the child and not a spouse.

if my uncle owns 1/2 and the trust owns 1/2 does that actually mean that my uncle owns the 1/2 of the house that is not in the trust?? since the trust is divided into 1/3 and the other (non trust)wh half gets probated?

What exactly does all this mean? Does my uncle have to sell the house to pay us these shares? or does the house stay like it is with all these hands in it and never actually recieve payments for it?
whew im confused
thanks!

 

[anteater]

Maybe I am missing something... But, let's try it one more time...

Your grandmother's will has no effect on the house. She no longer owned any part of the house when she passed away.

I emphasize that this is only as good as the information you have posted about ownership of the house. Once the trust was created and a deed was done to convey grandmother's 1/2 interest to the trust, the ownership was:

Trust: 1/2
Uncle A (the uncle that has passed away): 1/6th
Uncle B (surviving): 1/6th
Your mother: 1/6th

When Uncle A and your mother passed away, neither the trust nor your grandmother's will controlled the disposition of their respective 1/6th interests. If Uncle A and your mother had wills, those wills would determine what happened to their respective 1/6th interests in the house. If they did not have wills, Massachusetts intestate succession would determine how their assets were distributed.

Does my uncle have to sell the house to pay us these shares? or does the house stay like it is with all these hands in it and never actually recieve payments for it?

That is something that the owners will have to hash out. Your uncle could buy out the other owners. Or all the owners could come to an agreement, perhaps, with uncle paying some rent to the other owners. Or one of the owners could force a sale of the house through what is called a partition lawsuit.

 

[CaringforMom]

hello
that is what i thought sorry I got confused with your statement
"The provisions of grandmother's will apply only to any of her assets that were not titled to the trust."

I thought that meant the 1/2 of the house NOT covered by the trust as well but i get it she didnt own that half!
thanks so much for your help!!


i have a few more questions but i dont want to drag this out on you.
I had no clue of wills/trust ect you and this forum has helped me alot

 

[CaringforMom]

update (new question)

Hello all...
We have finally started the process of probating my mothers share of the property that is not covered by the trust

some issues have come up
my main question is this
Is the Trust now voided out because two of the beneficiaries are deceased?
and my surviving uncle is now the owner of the 1/2 of the house that was/is in the trust?
This is something someone told us and called the trust a "dry trust"
Is this true and what does it mean?

also in the trust it had stated this
If at the death of (grandmother), this trust still owns the property located at (address) then (my mother) shall have the right to have a life estate on said property until her death. If (my mother's name) decides to not accept a life estate on said property for herself, then she may instruct the trustees to sell the trust properly thereby terminating her life estate.

question on that ..
a family member is saying my mother has no right to her beneficiary to the trust, since she had a life estate but the way i look at it is the life estate never came in to effect since my mother passed away before my grandmother. Meaning the life estate never came in to effect , Is that correct?
Even if she had a life estate pending (in the event of my grandmothers death) wouldn't she still be a beneficiary? I see nothing terminating it

Trust does declare for her to be a beneficiary along with her 2 brothers.

I am hoping for some help I can not afford a lawyer right now.
thank you!

 

[anteater]

Don't take this the wrong way... But I had hoped that, if you came back to the forum, it would be a completely different matter or, if this subject, to say that everything had worked out beautifully!

A "dry trust" would be one where the trust was established - all the nice trust documents have been done and signed - but the trust was not funded, that is no assets were transferred into the trust's name. Since everything that you have told us indicates that a 1/2 interest in the house was transferred into the trust's name, then it would not be a dry trust.

(Just a by the way... Using a "someone told us" makes it difficult to evaluate what was said. Was the "someone" a judge? An attorney? An attorney that specializes in trusts? The neighbor next door?)

It's difficult to look back through this and determine what had definitely been established and what is only various scenarios. But, if I remember, your surviving uncle is now the trustee. He is the one that needs to retain an attorney to help him through the terms of the trust, distribute the trust's 1/2 interest in the house, and close the trust.

I don't see that the prospective granting of a life estate has any bearing on your mother's (or her heir's) standing as a beneficiary. It appears that it is an "in addition to." Earlier, you had said, quoting the trust language I believe:

The principal and income of this Trust shall benifit "grandmother" durning her life time. At her death the beneficiaries of this trust will be (document names all three children) in equal shares. if any of the beneficiaries dies during this trust. his/her children if any will receive the deceased beneficiarys share and if they die without children their share shall go to the surviving beneficiaries and the children of the deceased beneficiary by right of representaion.

 

[CaringforMom]

hello
not taking anything the wrong way, i agree 100 percent and if it was soley up to me it would have been taken well care of by now. there are to many hands and mouths involved

The someone told us is a person at the counter at the land court we went there to get the title on the house they were confused about the whole situation but stated that its a dry trust and the trust is no longer valid making my uncle owner of that half of the house. ( the trusted half) that is what was said by this person. i thought he was wrong but wasnt sure.

that part i added about my mothers life estate was an over site by me I has missed that part completely when I posted about the trust couple months ago so i didnt mention it here before
and this life estate was brought up by a family member who thinks my mother has no right to the trust (or her children)

yes my uncle was to be trustee and all 3 of my grandmothers children listed as benifcirys
so the trust is still valid? with my uncle as trustee?
Thanks!!

 

[anteater]

so the trust is still valid?

I don't think that validity is the question. If the trust still holds 1/2 interest in the house, it is "live" and the trustee needs to follow the trust's provisions regarding the house.

with my uncle as trustee?

I can only refer to what you wrote of the trust's provisions in an earlier post:

The trust is in my grandmothers name and then lists my now deceased uncles name as substitute trustee and if in the event of his death turns over to my surviving uncle as the substitute substitute trustee and lists all 3 children as beneficiarys.

That is why your uncle needs to retain an attorney to assist him in distributing the 1/2 interest in the house to the rightful beneficiaries. What makes it complex is that each of Grandmom's children already owned a 1/6th interest outright and two of them predeceased Grandmom.

Those 1/6th interests owned outright by the deceased children (your mother and one uncle) would end up with whoever your mother and deceased uncle designated in their respective wills. Or, if no will, according to MA intestate succession law. (Back to one of you original concerns, that means that the predeceased uncle's widow most likely ends up with some ownership interest.)

[EDITED TO ADD: Reading back over things, I don't think that it was not definitively established how the 3 children held their respective 1/6th ownership shares. I assume that that it was tenants in common, rather than as joint tenants with right of survivorship, and each of the children was free to dispose of their interest as they desired when they passed away. If it was JTWROS, that changes what I have said with regard to the 3 children's 1/6th shares.]

According to what you have posted regarding the trust's distribution provisions, the 1/6th interests that your mother and predeceased uncle were to receive from the trust upon Grandmom's death go directly to your mother's and predeceased uncle's respective children.

When the smoke clears, your surviving uncle should end up with 1/3rd ownership - 1/6th from his outright ownership and 1/6th from the trust (1/3rd of 1/2).

The other 2/3rd interest should end up with your mother's and your deceased uncle's children, and, most likely, the deceased uncle's widow, in varying percentages. (Although, if your mother and deceased uncle had wills, it is possible that even more people might end up with a share. It would depend upon exactly how those wills, if they had wills, disposed of their assets.)

 

[CaringforMom]

hello
thank you for responding again.
things are about to get ugly for my family the "widow" thinks she owns 1/3 of the house and has contacted a lawyer who has told my surviving uncle that we will all be hearing from this lawyer with something by mail
that worries me a little because i think she is going to force sale of the house.

i realize and understand that she has right to the part of the house my deceased uncle owned out right
question is..does she also have right to his part of the trust?
if so does she have right to 1/3?
my deceased uncle also has a daughter that is not her daughter.
she is now questioning the daughters paternity (she is in her 40's)
my grandmother didnt want this widow to have anything to do with the house
guess that was an oversight.

 

[anteater]

question is..does she also have right to his part of the trust?
if so does she have right to 1/3?

From what you have written about the trust's provisions regarding beneficiaries, I would say, "No." There isn't anything in what you have quoted about the childrens' spouses. It would be interesting to hear the attorney's reasoning behind the widow's supposed right to receive any part of the house in the trust.

i realize and understand that she has right to the part of the house my deceased uncle owned out right

While most likely true, it would depend upon the deceased uncle's will, if he had one.

my grandmother didnt want this widow to have anything to do with the house

Just for future reference, the difficulty goes back to making the children partial owners. I don't recall if you said that was due to grandfather's will or under intestacy if grandfather died without a will. The problem is that control of what happens to those 1/6th shares depends upon the owners taking appropriate estate planning measures. It might have been better if the children had disclaimed their interest or gifted it to Grandmother. She could have then placed the house in the trust where more control over its disposition could be exercised.