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Contempt of court for telling kids the truth?

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Sara Abrams

Active Member
What is the name of your state?CA

My ex husband has professional supervised visitation due to his long-term methamphetamine addiction and placing our children in unsafe situations. He has been hell-bent on revenge ever since I filed for divorce 3 years ago, and has been recording his own conversations with the children for that long. He has admitted to this in three separate pleadings, one for each year. I was told by my attorney that even though he has professional supervised visits, I still had to allow phone calls. So I did, though I never felt comfortable (I have now been told by a different attorney that she was wrong- who to trust?)

Nearly every night he'd call our children. The times I overheard their conversations they caused me severe distress. He'd tell them things like, "Just you wait and see. This is all your mom's fault. The truth will come out. You'll be living with me soon." It got to the point where I would go to my room, lock the door, and put a pillow over my head and sing while they spoke. I was so afraid that I'd overhear what he was telling them and try to take the phone, and that this would be a violation of our order (not to interfere with other parent's phone call).

After being given supervised visitation, he only ended up exercising it for one month. He went 3 months without seeing them, and they'd tell me things like, "Dad told us you're keeping us from him. Dad told us you're lying to the courts."

Finally, I couldn't take it anymore. I bought two children's books on parental drug abuse. I read them to them, and then asked, "Do you know why I read you these stories? Your dad has a drug problem." I explained that there is help out there for people who suffer from this disease.

That night my son talked to him on the phone and told him what I'd said. I got a text from him that I'd violated our order (not to disparage other parent/talk about court case). He has now filed contempt of court for that matter alone. In his affidavit he included a transcript of the conversation he had with our son. In it, he tells my son that he doesn't have a drug problem, that in fact I manipulated his drug tests and that my son will find this all out soon.

He has failed 11 drug tests in one year. I cannot believe that his attorney allowed him to put this motion through. It seems incredibly unethical, especially given the fact that the recording is illegal. It also starts at the 0:00 mark, which shows he was already prepared to record.

I'm so confused. I feel as if I don't have any rights. He's committed so many crimes against me, but every time I report them to the police they say these are civil issues. I feel if the more crimes of his I report the worse I make myself look- that I just look crazy and out to get him. But how can I live like this? I have thought about stooping to his level and recording calls as well, but I don't feel right about it and am worried I would get in trouble.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
Are you saying that he actually attached a phone call transcript showing that he told your son that he doesn't have a drug problem and that you manipulated the drug tests? If so, I can just about bet that his attorney has nothing to do with this contempt of court motion. The judge is NOT going to like reading that.

Is there anything at all in your court orders that says that he is allowed phone calls with the children? You never should have allowed them if not. He is on supervised visitation for a reason.

I really recommend that you get an attorney to respond to this suit.
 

Whoops2u

Active Member
I have no knowledge of family court and how picky the judges there can be on contempt issues in regards to talking to the kids. Knowing the facts behind the order (Was it just a standing order to all or a specific order because of specific fears/facts in your case?) might guide on raising or lowering the picky meter.

Just based on your post, it seems to me you did violate the order. You may be able to justify it, but not with a vomiting of facts to the court explaining your perspective. I think /u/LdiJ is right about considering an attorney.
 

Sara Abrams

Active Member
Yes, that is what I'm saying. I can't afford an attorney. I've been told since contempt is quasi-criminal that I will be appointed one?
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
What is the name of your state?CA

My ex husband has professional supervised visitation due to his long-term methamphetamine addiction and placing our children in unsafe situations. He has been hell-bent on revenge ever since I filed for divorce 3 years ago, and has been recording his own conversations with the children for that long. He has admitted to this in three separate pleadings, one for each year. I was told by my attorney that even though he has professional supervised visits, I still had to allow phone calls. So I did, though I never felt comfortable (I have now been told by a different attorney that she was wrong- who to trust?)

Nearly every night he'd call our children. The times I overheard their conversations they caused me severe distress. He'd tell them things like, "Just you wait and see. This is all your mom's fault. The truth will come out. You'll be living with me soon." It got to the point where I would go to my room, lock the door, and put a pillow over my head and sing while they spoke. I was so afraid that I'd overhear what he was telling them and try to take the phone, and that this would be a violation of our order (not to interfere with other parent's phone call).

After being given supervised visitation, he only ended up exercising it for one month. He went 3 months without seeing them, and they'd tell me things like, "Dad told us you're keeping us from him. Dad told us you're lying to the courts."

Finally, I couldn't take it anymore. I bought two children's books on parental drug abuse. I read them to them, and then asked, "Do you know why I read you these stories? Your dad has a drug problem." I explained that there is help out there for people who suffer from this disease.

That night my son talked to him on the phone and told him what I'd said. I got a text from him that I'd violated our order (not to disparage other parent/talk about court case). He has now filed contempt of court for that matter alone. In his affidavit he included a transcript of the conversation he had with our son. In it, he tells my son that he doesn't have a drug problem, that in fact I manipulated his drug tests and that my son will find this all out soon.

He has failed 11 drug tests in one year. I cannot believe that his attorney allowed him to put this motion through. It seems incredibly unethical, especially given the fact that the recording is illegal. It also starts at the 0:00 mark, which shows he was already prepared to record.

I'm so confused. I feel as if I don't have any rights. He's committed so many crimes against me, but every time I report them to the police they say these are civil issues. I feel if the more crimes of his I report the worse I make myself look- that I just look crazy and out to get him. But how can I live like this? I have thought about stooping to his level and recording calls as well, but I don't feel right about it and am worried I would get in trouble.

Any advice would be appreciated.
How old were the children at the at the time you read them the book?
 

Whoops2u

Active Member
Yes, that is what I'm saying. I can't afford an attorney. I've been told since contempt is quasi-criminal that I will be appointed one?
Some contempt citations are civil and some are criminal. California penal code 166 shows what can be considered a crime.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=166.

If there are criminal sanctions and you fall under your county's guidelines, then a public defender can be appointed.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Yes, that is what I'm saying. I can't afford an attorney. I've been told since contempt is quasi-criminal that I will be appointed one?
Saying something bad about the other parent is definitely not criminal contempt. I am not even sure that what you said about dad falls into that category because you told the truth. At some point the children do need to know the truth about their parents...if for no other reason than to help insure that they do not head down the same path.

If you cannot afford an attorney, then you need to respond to his petition. You need to file a counter petition for contempt against him for all of the lies he is telling the children about you on the telephone, including the lie that you manipulated the drug tests. You need to point out that he admits that in the transcript that he has included with his petition. You need to include in your petition a motion that dad be denied telephone visitation with the children as he is unable to stop saying inappropriate things to the children.
 

Whoops2u

Active Member
Saying something bad about the other parent is definitely not criminal contempt. I am not even sure that what you said about dad falls into that category because you told the truth.
Truth is not a defense. If the judge ordered /u/Sara Abrams "not to disparage other parent/talk about court case" and she did, it does not matter if the disparagement is true or the facts relayed about the court case are true.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Truth is not a defense. If the judge ordered /u/Sara Abrams "not to disparage other parent/talk about court case" and she did, it does not matter if the disparagement is true or the facts relayed about the court case are true.
Truth is not disparagement...and, as I said, this is the sort of thing that the children do eventually need to learn about their parents, if for no other reason than to ensure that they do not follow the same path. In addition, as I said before, its absolutely NOT criminal contempt.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Truth is not disparagement...and, as I said, this is the sort of thing that the children do eventually need to learn about their parents, if for no other reason than to ensure that they do not follow the same path. In addition, as I said before, its absolutely NOT criminal contempt.
LD, you are wrong. AGAIN. You might want to learn what the word disparage/disparagement MEANS:
Definition of disparage

disparaged; disparaging
transitive verb


1 : to depreciate (see depreciate 1) by indirect means (such as invidious comparison) : speak slightingly about
  • religious beliefs disparaged as superstition




2 : to lower in rank or reputation : degrade


disparagement
play \-ij-mənt\ noun


Stating dad has a drug problem is speaking to lower him in rank or reputation. It is degrading. It has NOTHING to do with TRUTH.


Sara, you violated the order by stating that dad has a drug problem. You are in an open divorce case and are talking to the children about issues present in that case? You can't do that. There is an order prohibiting that. You are in the wrong. That doesn't mean dad is correct but YOU are wrong.
 

Whoops2u

Active Member
LD, you are wrong. AGAIN. You might want to learn what the word disparage/disparagement MEANS:

Stating dad has a drug problem is speaking to lower him in rank or reputation. It is degrading. It has NOTHING to do with TRUTH.


Sara, you violated the order by stating that dad has a drug problem. You are in an open divorce case and are talking to the children about issues present in that case? You can't do that. There is an order prohibiting that. You are in the wrong. That doesn't mean dad is correct but YOU are wrong.
While I agree with you about what the judge's meaning and standard will be, it is not unreasonable to think of the term as legal jargon. There, disparagement includes falsity as part of it. (As in slander of title.) The problem is, the judge is not talking about the legal principal of disparagement, but the verb disparage. It is just a pity the changing of that verb into a noun results in a homograph with the legal jargon for a different principal.
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
While I agree with you about what the judge's meaning and standard will be, it is not unreasonable to think of the term as legal jargon. There, disparagement includes falsity as part of it. (As in slander of title.) The problem is, the judge is not talking about the legal principal of disparagement, but the verb disparage. It is just a pity the changing of that verb into a noun results in a homograph with the legal jargon for a different principal.
OhioGAL is a family law attorney. You might consider deferring to her legal opinion as you are not an attorney, family or otherwise.
 

Whoops2u

Active Member
OhioGAL is a family law attorney. You might consider deferring to her legal opinion as you are not an attorney, family or otherwise.
I rarely defer to anyone. But, you might re-read my post. The part where I disagreed with was the insinuation the other poster was ignorant of the word's meaning and not with the legal conclusion. The term disparagement has a specific meaning in tort that includes an element of falsity and /u/LdiJ was using it with that specific meaning.

Sometimes, a Cigar is just a Cigar.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
I rarely defer to anyone. But, you might re-read my post. The part where I disagreed with was the insinuation the other poster was ignorant of the word's meaning and not with the legal conclusion. The term disparagement has a specific meaning in tort that includes an element of falsity and /u/LdiJ was using it with that specific meaning.

Sometimes, a Cigar is just a Cigar.
You said that truth is not a defense. I said that truth was not disparagement. I believe that I am more correct than you are.

The bottom line however, in THIS specific case, is that the father admitted in his own pleadings that he has both disparaged the mother (the OP) and lied about the mother (the OP). I addition to that he has been doing it since day one. This is not a winner for dad.
 

quincy

Senior Member
You said that truth is not a defense. I said that truth was not disparagement. I believe that I am more correct than you are.

The bottom line however, in THIS specific case, is that the father admitted in his own pleadings that he has both disparaged the mother (the OP) and lied about the mother (the OP). I addition to that he has been doing it since day one. This is not a winner for dad.
What I have bolded is incorrect.

Disparagement is the making of negative statements. These statements can be factually true or these statements can be totally false.

In other words, disparagement covers both true and false statements.

Example: "He is a meth addict" is a negative statement. It can be true or false but it disparages the person either way (although if false, it can also be defamatory).
 

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