CP wanting to relocate

[DoTheRightThing]

Thank you all so much for your responses.

Ohiogal: In regards to the statutes you posted- is that the case even if that exact verbiage isn't used in our seperation agreement or final divorce papers? There is nothing in our papers to that effect.

To the poster who asked why I would listen to gossip: I don't consider it gossip coming from the former SIL, she and I have remained close even after the divorce, and she was just trying to help. I have emailed my ex, but have not heard back from him yet.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Thank you all so much for your responses.

Ohiogal: In regards to the statutes you posted- is that the case even if that exact verbiage isn't used in our seperation agreement or final divorce papers? There is nothing in our papers to that effect.

To the poster who asked why I would listen to gossip: I don't consider it gossip coming from the former SIL, she and I have remained close even after the divorce, and she was just trying to help. I have emailed my ex, but have not heard back from him yet.

That is the current statute, so you will have to make your official notice to the court and they wil notify your ex, perhaps that is what your SIL is refering to the fact that he knows this is the law and is willing to agree with you, lead you to believe you two have a legal agreement and when you move, take custody from you for not notifying the court in the proper manner etc. It when in doubt, never hurts to follow the statute and if he agrees he won't contest and you are ok or if he does you have still saved him taking custody from you. consult with a local attorney but Ohiogal is an ohio atty so she should know.

 

[Ohiogal]

Thank you all so much for your responses.

Ohiogal: In regards to the statutes you posted- is that the case even if that exact verbiage isn't used in our seperation agreement or final divorce papers? There is nothing in our papers to that effect.

To the poster who asked why I would listen to gossip: I don't consider it gossip coming from the former SIL, she and I have remained close even after the divorce, and she was just trying to help. I have emailed my ex, but have not heard back from him yet.

YES! Statutes are what the court follows. You can't argue that the statute is not in your plan and therefore you dont have to follow it because it is assumed that the law always prevails over individual agreements. You cannot agree to something that goes against the law.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

YES! Statutes are what the court follows. You can't argue that the statute is not in your plan and therefore you dont have to follow it because it is assumed that the law always prevails over individual agreements. You cannot agree to something that goes against the law.

Fancy that

 

[DoTheRightThing]

Ohiogal and rmet: Thank you again.

Ohiogal: Since you are an attorney in Ohio, if the ex would decide to fight me on this move, in your experience, do you think a judge would prevent me from moving?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Ohiogal and rmet: Thank you again.

Ohiogal: Since you are an attorney in Ohio, if the ex would decide to fight me on this move, in your experience, do you think a judge would prevent me from moving?

There is no quesiton, that you could move, it is your children that may not be permitted to move, but I though you were OK with dad haivng custody of the children? You never know, you could move to OR with hubby, have some alone time without the stres of parenting teenagers and then have them for summers when you can have fun? And dad would know the reality of dad to day stress and frustraiton of parenting teens

 

[Ohiogal]

What do I think a judge would do?

Read my comments. No one can ever say for sure what a judge would do. Settlement is always the best way to go -- definitely consider and try mediation. An agreement you both hate a little is better than what can result from a court judgement which can really dig up animosity.

What is the name of your state? Ohio

I have 2 teenage children from my first marriage. My ex-husband and I have a very open parenting plan, and basically threw out the silly thing as soon as our divorce was final. I am the custodial parent, and he gets frequent visitation. This was not always the case, though. Shortly after our divorce - more than 10 years ago - he decided to leave the state to pursue different job options.

10 years ago does NOT matter today. The court does not care what happened that long ago. They want to see what has been going on more recently. How have the last few years been. And since he was the NCP it does not matter that he moved.

He visited on average of twice a year, during which times he would stay with his parents with the children. After a couple of years, he moved back to Ohio, and since then has had visitation almost every weekend, and several weeks in the summer, and we split holidays according to who has what planned. Like I said, very open and relaxed schedules. It may not work for all, but it works for us, and most importantly, the children.

So for the last five or so years you have had pretty equal time for the most part.


My husband and I are contemplating a move to Oregon. There are several reasons for this move: my husband suffers from a lung disorder and his doctors have advised him to consider living somewhere with less humidity;

Your husband does not really matter to the court for custody. This shows that the move would be in his best interest not the kids' best interest.

my grandparents live in Oregon and are getting to the age where they could use extra care, to keep them from having to go into nursing homes, and other family members-although helpful- aren't as able to care for them as I would be;

Move might be in the best interest of your grandparents but again not a reason in the best interest of the children.

there are other family members in Oregon, including my father, who I would love to spend more time with, and give my children the opportunity to know;

Well there are also vacations to do that with and if you were the NCP then they could also come visit you.

jobs are abundant in that area - at least for my husbands line of work.


But you don't have jobs lined up.

I have contacted my ex-husband and asked him if he would fight me if I do decide to make this move. He said he wouldn't.

He won't fight you going but he has every right to object to the kids going.

Being that our children are older teens (15 and 17), I gave them the option of staying with their father or moving with me.

The kids are older and the 17 year old will soon be out of the jurisdiction of the court. So they would probably give the kids a say however they can't dictate and you do not have the right to give them the option. Because unless you and dad agree that they can choose, they cannot choose.
I felt it was only right to allow them to choose, as they do have such a great relationship with their father, and he is a wonderful father and more than able to care for them. Both children thought about it, and both have said that they want to make the move with me, if I do make the move.

Well do not get them to state in writing in hopes of swaying a court. That would violate statute.

I thought this was all going to work out wonderfully. But then I spoke with my former sister-in-law, who gave me the heads up that my ex-husband is considering fighting me on the move after all.

Again don't listen to your sister in law.

There are other issues to this move, the biggest being that our 15 year old has starting running with the wrong crowd, and got into some legal trouble earlier this year - and I would love to get her out of this town and away from the crowd she is in with.

Which would lean towards a change in circumstance -- it shows that you cannot control the child and therefore maybe dad should get a chance to be CP. As someone else said it is the 15 year old who has been making the bad decisions. Moving her to a new scenery isn't going to change her. Allowing dad a chance with different parenting may.
If she decides to stay with her father, he lives in a different town, so either way she would be in a position to make new friends, hopefully better than the ones she has now. The other issues are small, and could be easily dealt with.

Again leans toward a reason why dad should get to be CP of her.

Other than my husbands health and the job opportunity, there isn't a significant change in circumstances that would warrant a judge giving custody to my ex-husband, but I wonder if a judge would restrict this move.

WRONG! Your daughter's problems are a change in circumstance since the last custody. is there a concrete job opportunity? Granted a move in Ohio is not by itself enough to warrant a change in circumstance however limiting dad's parenting time and the fifteen year old's behavior are!also a change in age since the last custody determination (10 years ago or so?) is enough. The children are in a different area of their life.
Does anyone have any experience with a situation such as this? With the children being the ages they are, and both desiring to make this move with me, would a judge likely take that into consideration?

Thanks in advance for any advice/input on my situation.What is the name of your state?

The pluses are that the kids want to move with you and their ages. HOWEVER you also better have a plan available that provides dad with just as much time with his kids as he has now. Be it all summer plus long weekends during the school year and alternating holidays or something of that nature. You need to make sure dad's rights with his children are not trampled. However there are never guarantees. And since you don't have DEFINITE employment that is going to hurt. Moving for a speculative reason is NOT going to be an easy sell to the judge. Speculation vs known parental relationship -- the parent wins usually. And be prepared to pay for transportation to enable dad's visitation with the kids. Because judges in this state have and will require the moving parent to pay all transportation costs.
Is it a sure thing? No? You need to show how it is in the children's best interest to move. And you haven't done that yet.

 

[DoTheRightThing]

There is no quesiton, that you could move, it is your children that may not be permitted to move, but I though you were OK with dad haivng custody of the children?

Yes, I would be OK with dad having custody, although it would be very hard for me to be away from our children, as I'm sure it will be for him...which is why I spoke to him first before making a decision 100%. The decision still isn't made 100%, but I think we're about 90% positive that we will make this move.

Ohiogal - Although at times hard to hear, I appreciate your response and the time you took in answering all of my questions.

 

[DoTheRightThing]

Ohiogal:

After reading and re-reading your response, I feel the need to clarify something. Dad and I did talk about this possible move, and did agree (verbally) that the children could choose where they want to live. We filed our own divorce, because we did agree on everything then and it was obviously much more cost-effective for us at that time. If we can agree on this move (whether it be me taking the kid(s) with me, or one or both of them staying with him), and we file the necessary paperwork with the courts, then that solves the whole problem, right?

I know I say that I would be OK with one or both of them staying with dad, and I would hope that if one or both of them end up wanting to stay with dad that I will be able to handle it, but it sure is a scary thought. I know he can take care of them, that's not an issue at all, but I've never been away from them for longer than 10 days when dad took them to Disney, so moving across the country without them would be very difficult.

It's a hell of a situation, that's for sure. I want to make the move, but I don't want to make anyone miserable in the process.

And as far as our daughter getting into trouble goes, the one and only problem I have with dad is that I don't allow our 15 year old contact with the girl she was with when she got into trouble, and he does when 15 year old is with him. It's not a matter of me not being able to control her, she just made a bad choice. As I type this, she is in day 2 of a 4-day Choice Camp, where she will hopefully learn the importance of making good choices instead of making bad ones. She knows right from wrong, she just lost her sense of direction for a moment.

Thanks again for the responses ... they have all helped a great deal.

 

[Ohiogal]

Response

Ohiogal:

After reading and re-reading your response, I feel the need to clarify something. Dad and I did talk about this possible move, and did agree (verbally) that the children could choose where they want to live.

[I]Verbal agreements have nothing to do with court in family law cases. A verbal agreement between you two that the kids can choose is not going to override statute. Now if you file an agreed entry with the court that has jurisdiction of the matter, you and dad can put in the agreed entry that you have been agreed that the children due to their ages and maturity were old enough to participate in the decision making and that you have both decided that with all other things being equal the children and the two of you have decided that they will live with ____________________.
We filed our own divorce, because we did agree on everything then and it was obviously much more cost-effective for us at that time. If we can agree on this move (whether it be me taking the kid(s) with me, or one or both of them staying with him), and we file the necessary paperwork with the courts, then that solves the whole problem, right?

Correct. If you two file an agreed entry which is not that much with a new parenting plan attached so that you two can go by the whole thing and you have agreed with who pays for transportation and you guarantee that both parents have time with the kids and so on and so forth that does solve the problem. There is very little that the courts in Ohio won't allow -- they will not allow plans that won't work (one week on and one week off at that distance), child support paid directly to the other party and not through CSEA, or a few other things that either restrict someone's constitutional rights or apply only to one party. The agreement must be fair and apply equitably.

I know I say that I would be OK with one or both of them staying with dad, and I would hope that if one or both of them end up wanting to stay with dad that I will be able to handle it, but it sure is a scary thought. I know he can take care of them, that's not an issue at all, but I've never been away from them for longer than 10 days when dad took them to Disney, so moving across the country without them would be very difficult.


That is the bad thing about divorce with kids. It separates someone from their child for a length of time.

It's a hell of a situation, that's for sure. I want to make the move, but I don't want to make anyone miserable in the process.

The thing is someone may end up being miserable. That may be unavoidable unless you can reach an agreement.

And as far as our daughter getting into trouble goes, the one and only problem I have with dad is that I don't allow our 15 year old contact with the girl she was with when she got into trouble, and he does when 15 year old is with him. It's not a matter of me not being able to control her, she just made a bad choice. As I type this, she is in day 2 of a 4-day Choice Camp, where she will hopefully learn the importance of making good choices instead of making bad ones. She knows right from wrong, she just lost her sense of direction for a moment.

Thanks again for the responses ... they have all helped a great deal.

I hope this helps. The best thing to do is sit down with dad and offer him a lot of time with the kids (all but two or three weeks in the summer, spring and winter breaks -- at least half of them, a three day weekend every month is usually possible) and telephone access.
The 17 year old will soon age out of support and custody issues and will be able to make the decision of what she wants to do. The 15 year old has three years to go.

 

[DoTheRightThing]

Ohiogal: Once again, thank you. Your advice and input is very helpful.