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custody, child support, visitation

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helpinca

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Hi all, I'm trying to see if what I am going to try to propose to my ex-husband seems fair, as I don't want to make this any more drawn out than it already has been....

We've been separated for 10 years, have two sons, 13 and 11. When we first separated he was in college obtaining his bachelors degree and we were and are still on a relatively friendly basis, and we made the decision that the boys would live with me and visit with him every other weekend. For about 5 years I drove them approximately 30 miles to drop them off and pick them up as he constantly complained about not having money. I felt (coming from a divorced family) that I needed to do my part to make sure that the boys had their father in their life.

Fast forward 10 years, here we are and I'm finally at the point where I can't wait any more on filing the divorce papers or custody papers. Every other weekend he has our sons, and now picks them up from school on the Friday's he has them and returns them either Sunday night to home, or Monday morning to school. I have no problems with this arrangement, however, he is stating now that he has a right to them every weekend and every holiday and that I should schedule my job around them so that I can spend more time with them during the week. I obviously don't agree with him, as I feel that since day one I struggled and fought tooth and nail to provide for those two boys, living in a "crap" area and then finally breaking through with a little luck and a lot of hard work to provide them with a nice home where they have their own rooms and are by their friends and have a good school. He has yet to pay anything more than $20 in assistance (and I do understand that if I wanted it, I would have had to go to the court to ask for it prior to now) in 10 years, and even now states that if I want him to pay for half of their medical care, they can go live with him and he'll pay for their insurance. Other than that, I'm out of luck. So, it's either his way or the highway it seems. Which, although I don’t believe a judge or mediator will care about, he lives in a 1 bedroom apartment, still makes under $40K a year, while I make almost three times that amount, and took 14 years to get his degree. And while I agree that money isn’t everything, it does help to have it to raise kids, especially two teenage boys. His attitude and behavior also got my youngest son kicked off of his club soccer team, as his coach stated “it’s not your son or your commitment or lack thereof, it’s his fathers who assumes that we are just going to turn a blind eye that he doesn’t care”. On top of it all, when it comes to the tough stuff, like homework and grades, he’s quick to judge, but short on helping out. Believe me, I am the last person to claim mother of the year, I’ve made my mistakes along the way. But it does get a little irking when someone who wants to treat my sons like “trophy children” wants all of the rewards, but none of the work. I guess which brings me to my proposal to him that I would like opinions on if I’m getting it right or not, and if a judge would agree to this:

75%, 25% joint physical custody, with primary custody to me. This breaks out to every other weekend, every other holiday and half of their summer vacation. Not sure if I HAVE to agree give him joint physical or just visitation?

Joint legal custody (even though personally I don’t think he deserves it, I know it’s a tough road to go down). He has half a say in everything, except for school, which really neither of us get a choice in, and who is doctor and dentists are, as those are chosen by the insurance company.

He pays for half of their medical coverage (which equates to about $250 a month), plus half of all co-payments (as it turns out braces cost about $1800).

He pays $250 a month in child support.

He pays half of all extra curricular activities. He gets half a say in the activity (if the kids want to do it), and I get the other half.

Both of us are allowed to take the kids on vacation, whether out of state or out of the country as long as they notify the other parent and the other parent does not object. Basic travel info to be provided.

I’m not sure if I’m missing anything, and it burns me sideways as I’m writing this as I personally don’t feel like he deserves anything more than a swift kick in the but. I don’t believe that someone who wants to walk the walk shouldn’t have to talk the talk as well. My kids unfortunately have given up on him holding his word to them, and as much as I tell them that it’s ok, I’m sure he didn’t mean to do it, after 10 years, now I’m lying to them. My 13 year old resents him, my 11 year old is on the same road, as instead of trying to be an active role model in their lives, he chooses to spend more time on and off the field with the college kids he coaches. His mother called me several years ago that she wanted me to stop the boys from going with him, or anything I could do because he was dating a 17 year old girl. Not to mention that the 17 year old girl was the girl that would “babysit” the boys on the side of the field while he was coaching when she was 15. I don’t mean to vent, it’s just when you get started typing, you can’t stop, and it makes me crazy that you have to be beating your children to be considered an unfit parent, and he barely skirts the rules. From a mother’s perspective who would give her left arm without batting an eyelash, to have worked and struggled and fought to raise those kids to be what most people compliment me on as “role model” kids, to then have to compromise on the above makes me ill. But, it is what it is, and if I have to play this way I will, I guess maybe this way someone could share a little perspective on my rant?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Hi all, I'm trying to see if what I am going to try to propose to my ex-husband seems fair, as I don't want to make this any more drawn out than it already has been....

We've been separated for 10 years, have two sons, 13 and 11. When we first separated he was in college obtaining his bachelors degree and we were and are still on a relatively friendly basis, and we made the decision that the boys would live with me and visit with him every other weekend. For about 5 years I drove them approximately 30 miles to drop them off and pick them up as he constantly complained about not having money. I felt (coming from a divorced family) that I needed to do my part to make sure that the boys had their father in their life.

Fast forward 10 years, here we are and I'm finally at the point where I can't wait any more on filing the divorce papers or custody papers. Every other weekend he has our sons, and now picks them up from school on the Friday's he has them and returns them either Sunday night to home, or Monday morning to school. I have no problems with this arrangement, however, he is stating now that he has a right to them every weekend and every holiday and that I should schedule my job around them so that I can spend more time with them during the week. I obviously don't agree with him, as I feel that since day one I struggled and fought tooth and nail to provide for those two boys, living in a "crap" area and then finally breaking through with a little luck and a lot of hard work to provide them with a nice home where they have their own rooms and are by their friends and have a good school. He has yet to pay anything more than $20 in assistance (and I do understand that if I wanted it, I would have had to go to the court to ask for it prior to now) in 10 years, and even now states that if I want him to pay for half of their medical care, they can go live with him and he'll pay for their insurance. Other than that, I'm out of luck. So, it's either his way or the highway it seems. Which, although I don’t believe a judge or mediator will care about, he lives in a 1 bedroom apartment, still makes under $40K a year, while I make almost three times that amount, and took 14 years to get his degree. And while I agree that money isn’t everything, it does help to have it to raise kids, especially two teenage boys. His attitude and behavior also got my youngest son kicked off of his club soccer team, as his coach stated “it’s not your son or your commitment or lack thereof, it’s his fathers who assumes that we are just going to turn a blind eye that he doesn’t care”. On top of it all, when it comes to the tough stuff, like homework and grades, he’s quick to judge, but short on helping out. Believe me, I am the last person to claim mother of the year, I’ve made my mistakes along the way. But it does get a little irking when someone who wants to treat my sons like “trophy children” wants all of the rewards, but none of the work. I guess which brings me to my proposal to him that I would like opinions on if I’m getting it right or not, and if a judge would agree to this:

75%, 25% joint physical custody, with primary custody to me. This breaks out to every other weekend, every other holiday and half of their summer vacation. Not sure if I HAVE to agree give him joint physical or just visitation?

Joint legal custody (even though personally I don’t think he deserves it, I know it’s a tough road to go down). He has half a say in everything, except for school, which really neither of us get a choice in, and who is doctor and dentists are, as those are chosen by the insurance company.

He pays for half of their medical coverage (which equates to about $250 a month), plus half of all co-payments (as it turns out braces cost about $1800).

He pays $250 a month in child support.

He pays half of all extra curricular activities. He gets half a say in the activity (if the kids want to do it), and I get the other half.

Both of us are allowed to take the kids on vacation, whether out of state or out of the country as long as they notify the other parent and the other parent does not object. Basic travel info to be provided.

I’m not sure if I’m missing anything, and it burns me sideways as I’m writing this as I personally don’t feel like he deserves anything more than a swift kick in the but. I don’t believe that someone who wants to walk the walk shouldn’t have to talk the talk as well. My kids unfortunately have given up on him holding his word to them, and as much as I tell them that it’s ok, I’m sure he didn’t mean to do it, after 10 years, now I’m lying to them. My 13 year old resents him, my 11 year old is on the same road, as instead of trying to be an active role model in their lives, he chooses to spend more time on and off the field with the college kids he coaches. His mother called me several years ago that she wanted me to stop the boys from going with him, or anything I could do because he was dating a 17 year old girl. Not to mention that the 17 year old girl was the girl that would “babysit” the boys on the side of the field while he was coaching when she was 15. I don’t mean to vent, it’s just when you get started typing, you can’t stop, and it makes me crazy that you have to be beating your children to be considered an unfit parent, and he barely skirts the rules. From a mother’s perspective who would give her left arm without batting an eyelash, to have worked and struggled and fought to raise those kids to be what most people compliment me on as “role model” kids, to then have to compromise on the above makes me ill. But, it is what it is, and if I have to play this way I will, I guess maybe this way someone could share a little perspective on my rant?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
Whew...that was difficult to read because of your big blocks of text.

File for divorce and ask for primary custody of the children. He won't get every weekend and every holiday (for sure) and likely won't get any more than the status quo you have been doing for the last 10 years.

He is virtually guaranteed to get joint legal custody (joint decision making) so don't make that a hill to die on.

He is going to end up paying you some child support whether he likes it or not, but don't expect it to be a whole lot since your income is so much higher than his.
 

helpinca

Junior Member
Thank you for your reply, I know it seemed I rambled on earlier, just frustrated I guess......

Thank you again......
 

helpinca

Junior Member
One more question, sorry, but on the 75/25 physical custody, do you think this is something that the judge will agree to? Meaning if all of a sudden this takes a turn for the worse, how likely am i to retain 75% custody? He lives about an hour away if that matters.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
One more question, sorry, but on the 75/25 physical custody, do you think this is something that the judge will agree to? Meaning if all of a sudden this takes a turn for the worse, how likely am i to retain 75% custody? He lives about an hour away if that matters.
Your odds should be good. A judge definitely won't give him every weekend and every holiday, and an hour's distance would make it difficult or impossible for him to get the children back and forth to school on weekdays, so a judge cannot really give him extra weekdays. I also cannot see a judge giving him primary custody because you have not only the status quo, but the children's school would have to change for dad to get primary custody.
 

helpinca

Junior Member
Ok, once again, thank you for your help on this, I do feel like I'm going crazy from time to time. He's agreed to meet Sunday evening to hammer out details, so I hope it all goes good!!!
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
...I'd be concerned about some of that wording.

Whose say is final if the other parent objects to travel outside of the country, for example?
 

helpinca

Junior Member
I guess since you put it that way, I'm not 100% certain. I have taken them to Switzerland a couple of times for vacation, and to Hawaii a month ago and gave him copies of everything (itineraries, etc.), and he's taken them to Arizona a couple of times, with neither of us objecting. We both do try to get along as well as possible for the kids, as frustrating as it can be sometimes. Would it be taken care of with the wording of "Parent traveling with child must notify non-traveling parent within 30 days of travel. If non-traveling parent objects to travel, they must notify traveling parent within 7 days in writing of substantial reason why. If reason does not fall into category of substantial (i.e. missing school without independent study, death in the family, sudden illness, etc.?), travel will be authorized."? I guess I'm not certain of how to word it that both of us get to take the kids on vacation, but if he (or I) comes up with some ludicrous idea of taking them out of school for 3 months that it won't fly?

I guess what I'm saying is I want to make sure I'm being fair to both of us (and the kids) in this. I just don't know how to word it....

Thanks for your help
 
Last edited:

helpinca

Junior Member
Hi Everyone,

Ok, so my ex (or soon to be ex) decided against meeting on Sunday to go over everything. I typed up a custody agreement per what I had stated before and emailed it over to him, along with copies of all of the papers that need to be filed with the court. In the last email of the group (scanned copies are huge files), I ended with a polite comment about how I'm sure we can work through all of this, regardless of our personal differences, we're stuck with each other for life and need to do what's best for the boys.

My question is this, and I know it's been partially answered regarding the "status quo":

If he refuses to sign with 25% joint physical custody, do I have to agree to the 50/50? Am I better served (and my children) in fighting it out to keep it as is? I can't imagine that he would ever pick them up more than every other weekend, unless it's a way to keep from paying child support (he hasn't in 10 years). I'm not stuck in the financial situation of not being able to provide for them on a day to day basis, but more looking towards putting the money he pays into a savings account for their college, since I haven't been able to do that. What I guess I'm asking, because I know he's going to make a stink, is if it's better to back down from the 75%/25% joint physical custody and agree to 50/50 even though that's not the status quo? Or if he decides to make a stink, is it better to ask for full physical custody with visitation? It isn't all about the money (all though it would be nice), but more about not changing their lives around as much as possible with school and their friends and what they're used to.

Thank you in advance for your help.....I am truly at a loss and for as much bullying and f*** you's he does to me, I feel as though I'm not confident in what I'm asking for is fair or right?
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Hi Everyone,

Ok, so my ex (or soon to be ex) decided against meeting on Sunday to go over everything. I typed up a custody agreement per what I had stated before and emailed it over to him, along with copies of all of the papers that need to be filed with the court. In the last email of the group (scanned copies are huge files), I ended with a polite comment about how I'm sure we can work through all of this, regardless of our personal differences, we're stuck with each other for life and need to do what's best for the boys.

My question is this, and I know it's been partially answered regarding the "status quo":

If he refuses to sign with 25% joint physical custody, do I have to agree to the 50/50? Am I better served (and my children) in fighting it out to keep it as is? I can't imagine that he would ever pick them up more than every other weekend, unless it's a way to keep from paying child support (he hasn't in 10 years). I'm not stuck in the financial situation of not being able to provide for them on a day to day basis, but more looking towards putting the money he pays into a savings account for their college, since I haven't been able to do that. What I guess I'm asking, because I know he's going to make a stink, is if it's better to back down from the 75%/25% joint physical custody and agree to 50/50 even though that's not the status quo? Or if he decides to make a stink, is it better to ask for full physical custody with visitation? It isn't all about the money (all though it would be nice), but more about not changing their lives around as much as possible with school and their friends and what they're used to.

Thank you in advance for your help.....I am truly at a loss and for as much bullying and f*** you's he does to me, I feel as though I'm not confident in what I'm asking for is fair or right?
You absolutely do NOT have to agree to anything. You can let it go in front of a mediator and later even in front of a judge.

I would personally fight to keep status quo. Its what your children are used to and therefore would be the least disruptive to their lives. There is nothing unfair with wanting to stick with the status quo.

He is the one who is totally unfair in asking for all the quality time (weekends, holidays etc.)
 

helpinca

Junior Member
Thank you so much for your quick response. This is one of those days where I wonder if my sanity will hold out. Thank you again, I do appreciate it.
 
You've been married more than 10 years in California and that's considered a long term marriage here. Spousal support often gets ordered for long term marriages. Since he is self supporting you may want to add a clause stating that both of you waive spousal support.

Also a clause stating that the marital assets have already been distributed.

There is a chart for determining timeshare that you can get from the web - google "California parenting time chart" and there are some links to that.
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
If he refuses to sign with 25% joint physical custody, do I have to agree to the 50/50?
No. The court will almost certainly not order 50/50 unless the two of you agree to it.

If you don't agree on 50/50, the court will decide who gets primary physical custody on the basis of what's best for the kids, with the status quo being a very strong deciding factor.
 

helpinca

Junior Member
Ok, thanks for putting my mind a little at ease. I'm beginning to feel as though his threats are becoming more and more empty. I just want to make sure that nothing really changes. I've already been fighting my 13 year old that he has to go whether he likes it or not, and the pressure of my ex on top of it doesn't make for a warm-fuzzy feeling....

Thank you again for all of your help everyone....
 

helpinca

Junior Member
Ok, so I think three more questions (and I'm hoping that it will be all of it)

1. Does the custody arrangement go into effect when we first file it? Or does it go into effect when it's stamped by a judge?

2. If he decides to fight me (which at this point looks like he might), is it better in the courts eyes for me to stick to what I've outlined above? Or is it better to ask for more (like full legal and physical)? The only reason I ask this, is I know in negotiations (business) you ask for more than what you want knowing that you will get less.

3. My son's cell phone...... His father doesn't pay for any of it, yet expects me to call my son when he doesn't answer his phone for his father. I've asked him repeatedly to chip in for half of it, especially if he expects to be able to call him whenever he pleases on it, and that if he doesn't want to pay for half, then he can call my cell phone when I get off of work so that he can speak with both of our sons. First, do I have any legal standing to not make my son answer his phone when his father calls? We don't have a home phone, but my oldest son and I both have cell phones. Prior to my eldest getting a phone, his father would call mine and unless we were eating dinner (sorry, I think cell phones at the table are rude), I would answer it and hand it to either kiddo, whichever was closest. My secondary concern, besides the money issue(and that would just be a way to get him to stop calling him directly), is that when he calls my oldest, he has a REALLY bad habit of belittling him, to the point that my son is crying because he's so angry. My youngest seems to miss most of the attacks, primarily because his father has taken it out on my oldest, and really only talks to my youngest if my oldest won't say much to him. I feel like if I can at least limit the time that he can speak with him without me around, the less he will be cruel on the phone. I don't think I should have to monitor his phone calls (definitely don't want to be the phone police) but I don't know how else to make sure he's not playing his stupid game with my kiddos.....
 
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