custody, child support, visitation

[mistoffolees]

Ok, so I think three more questions (and I'm hoping that it will be all of it)

1. Does the custody arrangement go into effect when we first file it? Or does it go into effect when it's stamped by a judge?

It is not enforceable until signed by a judge.

If you both agree, though, there's nothing stopping you from following your agreement before the court order is finalized, but no one can force you.

2. If he decides to fight me (which at this point looks like he might), is it better in the courts eyes for me to stick to what I've outlined above? Or is it better to ask for more (like full legal and physical)? The only reason I ask this, is I know in negotiations (business) you ask for more than what you want knowing that you will get less.

If you ask for something unreasonable, you start off on the wrong foot with the judge. It is best to ask for whatever you consider to be reasonable. Maybe stretch things a little (if you think that giving him 4 to 8 days a month is reasonable, go ahead and ask for 4. Don't ask for zero, though).

3. My son's cell phone...... His father doesn't pay for any of it, yet expects me to call my son when he doesn't answer his phone for his father. I've asked him repeatedly to chip in for half of it, especially if he expects to be able to call him whenever he pleases on it, and that if he doesn't want to pay for half, then he can call my cell phone when I get off of work so that he can speak with both of our sons. First, do I have any legal standing to not make my son answer his phone when his father calls? We don't have a home phone, but my oldest son and I both have cell phones. Prior to my eldest getting a phone, his father would call mine and unless we were eating dinner (sorry, I think cell phones at the table are rude), I would answer it and hand it to either kiddo, whichever was closest. My secondary concern, besides the money issue(and that would just be a way to get him to stop calling him directly),

I would really suggest that you stop creating false reasons for getting your way. Your kids will see through it - and you look like the bad guy. If the phone calls are disruptive, ask the court for a limitation on how many calls per week or whatever. But don't play stupid games to try to use a different excuse to try to get around it.

And if there's no court order for Dad to pay for part of the cell phone, he doesn't have to.

is that when he calls my oldest, he has a REALLY bad habit of belittling him, to the point that my son is crying because he's so angry. My youngest seems to miss most of the attacks, primarily because his father has taken it out on my oldest, and really only talks to my youngest if my oldest won't say much to him. I feel like if I can at least limit the time that he can speak with him without me around, the less he will be cruel on the phone. I don't think I should have to monitor his phone calls (definitely don't want to be the phone police) but I don't know how else to make sure he's not playing his stupid game with my kiddos.....

As said above, you can ask for a limit of how much time he can call. In theory, you could ask for limits on him attacking the child, but that would be unenforceable, so it's not worth going there. Better to get the kid some counseling so he learns coping skills. And have a private conversation with Dad.

 

[helpinca]

Thank you for your response. However, am I required to provide my son with a cell phone for him to contact him on? It would seem a little odd that I would have to pay for it, give him the number, and not be able to say enough. What would happen if he didn't have a cell phone? He would still have to go through me, and this just makes me want to cancel the damn thing. When I spoke with his dad about the way he speaks to them, his response is "he's my son, I can speak to him the way I like, if you don't like it, go F*** yourself." And this was during a polite conversation. And I do realize this is his dad, and that I do have to provide communication to him (and always have), but it seems extreme that he calls me to bawl me out when my oldest doesn't answer his phone and that I have to just keep on paying for it with a smile? Sorry to seem like I'm trying to get what I want, the only reason i was trying to get around it was to not have my son step in front of a judge or mediator to tell them what his father says and stick him in the middle.

My son is currently seeing a counselor (psychologist) who told me last Friday that it looks like there is evidence of emotional and mental abuse from his father, and that he is reporting it to the state so that Child Services will step in and investigate. Sounds like fun, and I've heard horror stories from people who felt like they've done nothing wrong losing their kiddos. I am definitely not "mother of the year" by any means, but I work hard to be a good mom and do right by my kids. I've also tried to do right by my ex and his relationship with the kids. It's just that since he tried cornering them into moving with him and they told him no, his tactics have become much harsher, ruder, etc...

 

[mistoffolees]

Thank you for your response. However, am I required to provide my son with a cell phone for him to contact him on? It would seem a little odd that I would have to pay for it, give him the number, and not be able to say enough. What would happen if he didn't have a cell phone? He would still have to go through me, and this just makes me want to cancel the damn thing. When I spoke with his dad about the way he speaks to them, his response is "he's my son, I can speak to him the way I like, if you don't like it, go F*** yourself." And this was during a polite conversation. And I do realize this is his dad, and that I do have to provide communication to him (and always have), but it seems extreme that he calls me to bawl me out when my oldest doesn't answer his phone and that I have to just keep on paying for it with a smile? Sorry to seem like I'm trying to get what I want, the only reason i was trying to get around it was to not have my son step in front of a judge or mediator to tell them what his father says and stick him in the middle.

If there's no court order, you don't have to provide a cell phone. You will, however, probably have to provide SOME mechanism for Dad to contact the kids.

My son is currently seeing a counselor (psychologist) who told me last Friday that it looks like there is evidence of emotional and mental abuse from his father, and that he is reporting it to the state so that Child Services will step in and investigate. Sounds like fun, and I've heard horror stories from people who felt like they've done nothing wrong losing their kiddos. I am definitely not "mother of the year" by any means, but I work hard to be a good mom and do right by my kids. I've also tried to do right by my ex and his relationship with the kids. It's just that since he tried cornering them into moving with him and they told him no, his tactics have become much harsher, ruder, etc...

Why would you be in trouble because Dad is abusive? If you haven't done anything wrong, then CPS' investigation of Dad shouldn't have any impact on you.

 

[Silverplum]

Poster, I'm about ready to report you to the mods for swearing in your posts -- please stop. We're grownups.

 

[helpinca]

Silverplum, my apologies, I thought that ***'ing out the words would imply that I wasn't cursing. I will make sure that I don't do that anymore.

What the psychologist told me is that once an investigation is opened, they will investigate both sides. I'm not worried per se, other than the horror stories I've heard. My children have a good, loving home. We have fun and have rules. We live in a great place with great schools. They are not neglected in anyway (other than when they throw a teenage fit), and then they are just ignored until they get over it and can talk like a normal individual. My kids are great kids, they really are (and I know I'm biased), I think it's just maybe the unknown that scares me. For example, my bosses sister-in-law is a CPS agent that comes in and takes a look at the house and does interviews with families. She gets a say in what happens with people's children and if they get to stay in a home. However, her 6 year old son is often left with his grandparents unfed, unbathed, and unschooled. He cannot spell his name, nor write it, and has difficulty communicating. He is currently on a truancy list because last year he attended school for a total of 4 months out of the 9. I'm not saying that this is how all CPS agents are, but it does scare me to think that this could be the type of someone who will judge me, my home and my family. If anyone has any insight on how this all works, I would truly truly truly appreciate it. I've done a search online and even called into CPS to see if they could give me a rundown, but I just keep getting voicemails.

Thank you for all of your help mistoffolees, and everyone else. I do appreciate all of your help.

 

[mistoffolees]

Silverplum, my apologies, I thought that ***'ing out the words would imply that I wasn't cursing. I will make sure that I don't do that anymore.

What the psychologist told me is that once an investigation is opened, they will investigate both sides. I'm not worried per se, other than the horror stories I've heard. My children have a good, loving home. We have fun and have rules. We live in a great place with great schools. They are not neglected in anyway (other than when they throw a teenage fit), and then they are just ignored until they get over it and can talk like a normal individual. My kids are great kids, they really are (and I know I'm biased), I think it's just maybe the unknown that scares me. For example, my bosses sister-in-law is a CPS agent that comes in and takes a look at the house and does interviews with families. She gets a say in what happens with people's children and if they get to stay in a home. However, her 6 year old son is often left with his grandparents unfed, unbathed, and unschooled. He cannot spell his name, nor write it, and has difficulty communicating. He is currently on a truancy list because last year he attended school for a total of 4 months out of the 9. I'm not saying that this is how all CPS agents are, but it does scare me to think that this could be the type of someone who will judge me, my home and my family. If anyone has any insight on how this all works, I would truly truly truly appreciate it. I've done a search online and even called into CPS to see if they could give me a rundown, but I just keep getting voicemails.

Just do a search on this site. Your question has been asked and answered many times.

 

[helpinca]

Ok, so I think now I'm officially terrified. Please tell me that there are more circumstances that everything turns out ok then there are of cps coming in and taking kids????? I did a search on "CPS California" and made it through the first 10 pages before I came back here.

It's making me concerned that if these posters are legitimate posters who didn't do anything wrong (which some are speculative), I need to find an attorney right away just to protect my children??? Instead of helping my son, it seems that I may have put all of us into a predicament of long term drama?

Please tell me that this can't be right.....

 

[LdiJ]

Ok, so I think now I'm officially terrified. Please tell me that there are more circumstances that everything turns out ok then there are of cps coming in and taking kids????? I did a search on "CPS California" and made it through the first 10 pages before I came back here.

It's making me concerned that if these posters are legitimate posters who didn't do anything wrong (which some are speculative), I need to find an attorney right away just to protect my children??? Instead of helping my son, it seems that I may have put all of us into a predicament of long term drama?

Please tell me that this can't be right.....

Stop and take a big deep breath. Are there CPS horror stories...absolutely, it happens.

However, many of us here have had CPS called on US for false accusations and I don't think that there is any regular here where CPS did anything more than investigate and declare the accusations "unfounded"....and when CPS is called against the other parent, then its a fairly routine thing for CPS to simply make sure that thing's are ok in the non offending parent's home.

Do not freak out about this and don't rush out and hire an attorney either. You are the non offending parent and any investigation they make of you is going to be routine.

 

[mistoffolees]

Ok, so I think now I'm officially terrified. Please tell me that there are more circumstances that everything turns out ok then there are of cps coming in and taking kids????? I did a search on "CPS California" and made it through the first 10 pages before I came back here.

It's making me concerned that if these posters are legitimate posters who didn't do anything wrong (which some are speculative), I need to find an attorney right away just to protect my children??? Instead of helping my son, it seems that I may have put all of us into a predicament of long term drama?

Please tell me that this can't be right.....

If there's nothing wrong with your house, CPS isn't going to take the kids. They don't want your kids.

Most people recommend that you simply cooperate if you have nothing to hide. Be polite and listen to CPS's suggestions. OG (and possibly others) suggest not letting CPS into your home at all without a very strong reason or court order. So the advice differs. Really, the best thing is to get an attorney.

 

[LdiJ]

If there's nothing wrong with your house, CPS isn't going to take the kids. They don't want your kids.

Most people recommend that you simply cooperate if you have nothing to hide. Be polite and listen to CPS's suggestions. OG (and possibly others) suggest not letting CPS into your home at all without a very strong reason or court order. So the advice differs. Really, the best thing is to get an attorney.

I don't agree with the bolded...not when it comes to first contact with CPS...and not when they are the non offending parent. I think that has the potential to dangerously escalate the situation.

You get an attorney if the first contact goes badly.

 

[paxilicious]

mediation

i think you need to go into mediation to actually see what he wants and have an impartial, impassionate person to help you through an agreement. i also think you need to get yourself into a position where you want an agreement too.

you sound awful frustrated and tired of the situation, and now, you are getting angry - try to set your eyes on your goal (which i really couldn't tell from your posts) and do anything you can to peacefully go for that goal with your kids in mind.

good luck... really.

 

[mistoffolees]

I don't agree with the bolded...not when it comes to first contact with CPS...and not when they are the non offending parent. I think that has the potential to dangerously escalate the situation.

You get an attorney if the first contact goes badly.

OG has stated otherwise, so at least someone has a concern about letting CPS into the house.

If OP consults with an attorney, how is that going to escalate the situation? I'm not suggesting that the attorney should be at the door waving a gavel around and screaming at the CPS person. But since OP apparently has some concerns, there's nothing wrong with her having a quick consultation with an attorney.

 

[single317dad]

OG (and possibly others) suggest not letting CPS into your home at all without a very strong reason or court order. So the advice differs. Really, the best thing is to get an attorney.

At least one other attorney agrees with OG. Taken directly from this website:

Cooperating with CPS can be just like cooperating with the police. It generally buys you nothing. When CPS investigators come to your door, you do not have to let them in the house, unless they have a search warrant. All of your constitutional rights are in force, and you need to protect them.

Get the investigator's name and business card if possible. Speak as little as possible and as politely as possible. Close the door as soon as you are able and contact your attorney right away.

Before closing the door, ask what the allegations are. CPS will not give you a copy of the report but will generally tell you what the allegations are. Ask the investigator to read the report to you and write it down word for word. If possible, ask to record the conversation.

The CPS investigator may say she can't tell you the allegations unless you let her in the house. That's a lie, and CPS investigators are not beyond lying to get what they want out of you. They will bluff and try to intimidate you. Ignore all such actions. They will do anything to get into your house in order to snoop around and in order to talk to your children. Never let them talk to your children, unless a court forces you to or your lawyer advises you to.

Once CPS leaves and you have contacted your attorney, begin gathering any evidence you can to refute the false charges. These may include medical, dental and psychiatric records. If the allegations involve abuse, ask your lawyer about getting your child an immediate physical examination with accompanying photographs. If the false allegations involve a specific day and time, try to remember what you were doing at that time. If you were with other people, call them and ask them to be witnesses.

It's enormously important that you know all of your state's laws regarding Child Protective Services, neglect, abuse, as well as your rights under your state's constitution and the United States' constitution. Learning these laws now, before anyone falsely accuses you, will save you a lot of trouble in the future. And don't assume your lawyer knows the law. Make sure both you and he know the law. Retaining an attorney who specializes in family law would be a good start. If money is an issue, then contact your local legal aid office.

There are brochures on NY's Child Protective Services. Call and get one or check online. The more informed you are, the better off you will be.

Upon reading, it seems to border on paranoid, but as someone who had a bad experience with DCS, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Ohiogal]

At least one other attorney agrees with OG. Taken directly from this website:



Upon reading, it seems to border on paranoid, but as someone who had a bad experience with DCS, I wholeheartedly agree.

Its not paranoid. It is quite true. CPS/CSB has a track record of abusing their power. They did it in Texas when they removed dozens of children from their parents because they practiced polygamy. They have done it in Ohio with various cases that I have first hand litigated. They have done it in California -- that case went to the US Supreme Court. I have had CPS workers make up stories, mislead the court and out and out lie under oath. I have also seen them pinpoint various families for basically harassment because of personal vendettas. I have had workers who have not followed policy, procedure or the law and nothing happens because the agency is represented by the prosecutors in our state.

I have had caseworkers, supervisors and even agency attorneys tell me to quit with Constitutional arguments because the Constitution does not apply to juvenile court. Should I continue? Out of dozens of caseworkers in my county that I have dealt with, I can name less than a handful that have always played straight, followed the law, done their job and protected children. The others have proven that they will lie to cover themselves. They will twist the truth when it suits them and threaten, coerce and harass parents while on some gleeful power trip. I have had clients come to me who have been forced to help the agency prosecute them under the threat that if they wouldn't sign releases they would never see their children. I have had cases where fathers were not notified that their children were in foster care because it was easier for the workers to lie and state they didn't know of a father.


Should I continue? Sorry but CPS/CSB believe they are above the law. Parents need to realize they do NOT have to cooperate with them.

 

[helpinca]

Ok, so has anyone posting dealt with California CPS directly? I still can't get a phone call back from them and figured it would just be good to get some general information from them about what happens. Again, it's the unknown of the crazy stories. I know that really the only time that something gets posted on the internet is when it's a complaint, but there seem to be quite a few of them. Do the CPS agents actually have training that allow them to see if someone is lying or not? Or are they just untrained workers that get to make the decision based off of what side of the bed they woke up on? I DO NOT want to get on CPS's bad side, from what I have read, that will make matters worse. I'm not so much worried about me being a good parent (I know that I'm not the best, but I'm not horrible), but more of what kind of impact it has on the kids?

Paxilicious: I have tried to work things out fairly with him. He stomps his feet, cusses me out, and tells me how he's always right, and that what I'm suggesting isn't good enough, and that I'm just turning his kids against him (mind you, I'm the one who forced the relationship between them)..... I'm not 100% sure that mediation will happen.... We may end up there, but I'm sure he will end up doing the same with the mediator. Either that, or he'll act like he's Mr. Wonderful and has it all together and I'm crazy. I'm fine with either, as long as he doesn't gain custody of them. I don't think that I'm too far out of line with what has been happening and getting angry about it. My kids don't see me angry, I won't let them, it's not their fault, and as much as I'm trying to let it roll off of my shoulders, ANYONE telling my son that he is stupid will make me angry.