Dad left kids alone (?!?!?!)

[killerzoey]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Hawaii

My oldest, who is 6, told me tonight that she and her sister (3) were left alone at Dad's house today while he went to the store. She said, "He should have got a kid sitter." They had enough time to eat a snack (left by him), go potty (she had to poop, said she got a little messy and the little one tried to help clean her up), play a bit, and for older daughter to read younger daughter a book. Daughter said that "He left it up to us" whether or not to go with him, and they decided not to.

What is the best way to address this? I am completely beside myself.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Hawaii

My oldest, who is 6, told me tonight that she and her sister (3) were left alone at Dad's house today while he went to the store. She said, "He should have got a kid sitter." They had enough time to eat a snack (left by him), go potty (she had to poop, said she got a little messy and the little one tried to help clean her up), play a bit, and for older daughter to read younger daughter a book. Daughter said that "He left it up to us" whether or not to go with him, and they decided not to.

What is the best way to address this? I am completely beside myself.

Wow...that was beyond stupid. I am not at all sure what you should do. I remember your story and your ex and I don't know that anything that you might do or say would sink in with him.

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Hawaii

My oldest, who is 6, told me tonight that she and her sister (3) were left alone at Dad's house today while he went to the store. She said, "He should have got a kid sitter." They had enough time to eat a snack (left by him), go potty (she had to poop, said she got a little messy and the little one tried to help clean her up), play a bit, and for older daughter to read younger daughter a book. Daughter said that "He left it up to us" whether or not to go with him, and they decided not to.

What is the best way to address this? I am completely beside myself.

How long were the children alone? Where is the store? Why did they decide NOT to go the court (not that I think they could decide). Is the store next door or a mile away? Is dad in a house or apartment?

 

[Ohiogal]

How long were the children alone? Where is the store? Why did they decide NOT to go the court (not that I think they could decide). Is the store next door or a mile away? Is dad in a house or apartment?

Oh and you could attempt to file a police report or call CPS and report it HOWEVER if all you have is the word of the six year old, that might not go very far.

 

[killerzoey]

How long were the children alone? Where is the store? Why did they decide NOT to go the court (not that I think they could decide). Is the store next door or a mile away? Is dad in a house or apartment?

Thank you for your replies. I passed a rough night wondering what exactly I need to do about this.

Ohiogal,

My oldest cannot tell time that well yet so I didn't even ask her how long. But I did get out of her that it was long enough for all those things to happen that I mentioned. The auto parts store he went to was about a mile away. My fairly educated guess (having lived in that house and frequented that shopping center) is that it must have taken at least 20 minutes -- probably more given his rate of movement/decision making -- to get in the car, go there, park (busy lot), talk to the clerk/find what he needs, check out and come home. I didn't ask why they decided not to go, I too just figured that was irrelevant, as in no way should they have even been asked that question.

He lives in a house.

Regarding the word of a girl who is 6, I am thinking I might luck out and get Dad to admit this occurrence over the phone, and record it. I have recordings of him saying he will continue to refuse to take a kid to school who doesn't want to go, and that he does not give youngest her medication.

Is that my next move, then? Get him to admit it? Then what? Am I a bad mom if I just ask him to please please never do that again, and hold onto this in case it does? Like LdiJ said, this won't go far, no matter if it comes from me or the courts. He trusts his "advanced common sense" more than any statistics. His retaliation against me if I were to call CPS would be unending, and that would for SURE affect the kids. Now, I don't want to let my fear of him keep me from doing the right thing, I'm just honestly not clear on what that is.

 

[Gwenillian]

Thank you for your replies. I passed a rough night wondering what exactly I need to do about this.

I am thinking I might luck out and get Dad to admit this occurrence over the phone, and record it. I have recordings of him saying he will continue to refuse to take a kid to school who doesn't want to go, and that he does not give youngest her medication.

Is that my next move, then? Get him to admit it? Then what? Am I a bad mom if I just ask him to please please never do that again, and hold onto this in case it does? Like LdiJ said, this won't go far, no matter if it comes from me or the courts. He trusts his "advanced common sense" more than any statistics. His retaliation against me if I were to call CPS would be unending, and that would for SURE affect the kids. Now, I don't want to let my fear of him keep me from doing the right thing, I'm just honestly not clear on what that is.

I could be mistaken & I'm sure someone will let me know if I am, but I thought it was illegal to record someone on the phone without their knowledge in most states so a recording done that way would probably be inadmissable.

 

[killerzoey]

I could be mistaken & I'm sure someone will let me know if I am, but I thought it was illegal to record someone on the phone without their knowledge in most states so a recording done that way would probably be inadmissable.

Hawaii is a "one party" state, meaning that only one of us has to be aware that the conversation is being recorded.

 

[Ohiogal]

Thank you for your replies. I passed a rough night wondering what exactly I need to do about this.

Ohiogal,

My oldest cannot tell time that well yet so I didn't even ask her how long. But I did get out of her that it was long enough for all those things to happen that I mentioned. The auto parts store he went to was about a mile away. My fairly educated guess (having lived in that house and frequented that shopping center) is that it must have taken at least 20 minutes -- probably more given his rate of movement/decision making -- to get in the car, go there, park (busy lot), talk to the clerk/find what he needs, check out and come home. I didn't ask why they decided not to go, I too just figured that was irrelevant, as in no way should they have even been asked that question.

He lives in a house.

Regarding the word of a girl who is 6, I am thinking I might luck out and get Dad to admit this occurrence over the phone, and record it. I have recordings of him saying he will continue to refuse to take a kid to school who doesn't want to go, and that he does not give youngest her medication.

Is that my next move, then? Get him to admit it? Then what? Am I a bad mom if I just ask him to please please never do that again, and hold onto this in case it does? Like LdiJ said, this won't go far, no matter if it comes from me or the courts. He trusts his "advanced common sense" more than any statistics. His retaliation against me if I were to call CPS would be unending, and that would for SURE affect the kids. Now, I don't want to let my fear of him keep me from doing the right thing, I'm just honestly not clear on what that is.

If he admits he left a six and three year old alone and expected the 6 year old to babysit and you get it on tape, YOU REPORT IT TO THE POLICE. You let them hear the recording. If you hang onto it and do nothing but wait, what happens if the next time, he leaves for an hour and the children leave the house and get hit by a car? Or they get hungry and decide to make mac and cheese and catch the house on fire?

You also take the recording to court and get his visitation suspended/supervised until such time as he takes a parenting class and makes better decisions.

 

[killerzoey]

If he admits he left a six and three year old alone and expected the 6 year old to babysit and you get it on tape, YOU REPORT IT TO THE POLICE. You let them hear the recording. If you hang onto it and do nothing but wait, what happens if the next time, he leaves for an hour and the children leave the house and get hit by a car? Or they get hungry and decide to make mac and cheese and catch the house on fire?

You also take the recording to court and get his visitation suspended/supervised until such time as he takes a parenting class and makes better decisions.

I did...I just got a recording. He called all happy asking me to let the kids know the car was running again, talking about how stressful it was that they broke down that day. He nursed it home, though, and I was due to get the kids from him in a few hours, after which he wouldn't have them for days, and could focus solely on the car repair. But instead he went home, set up cartoons (as he put it) and went to the auto repair store. He admitted doing this. He said when he came back they were still just vegging in front of the TV. I said that the oldest reported otherwise, but that the bottom line was that he was not to leave children that young home alone. He admitted that it was a lapse in judgment, said he was stressed and that he doesn't do well under stress. (This man's definition of stressed reveals just how pampered he has been in life, of course).

So I got him admitting it, and also being apologetic and acknowledging that it was a bad idea and that it won't happen again. Still take it to the cops? Court? Both? Neither?

 

[killerzoey]

I did...I just got a recording. He called all happy asking me to let the kids know the car was running again, talking about how stressful it was that they broke down that day. He nursed it home, though, and I was due to get the kids from him in a few hours, after which he wouldn't have them for days, and could focus solely on the car repair. But instead he went home, set up cartoons (as he put it) and went to the auto repair store. He admitted doing this. He said when he came back they were still just vegging in front of the TV. I said that the oldest reported otherwise, but that the bottom line was that he was not to leave children that young home alone. He admitted that it was a lapse in judgment, said he was stressed and that he doesn't do well under stress. (This man's definition of stressed reveals just how pampered he has been in life, of course).

So I got him admitting it, and also being apologetic and acknowledging that it was a bad idea and that it won't happen again. Still take it to the cops? Court? Both? Neither?

By the way, during the pre-trial hearings, my first words to this judge were a polite request that "we" have to take parenting classes, and I have expressed many concerns about this type of behavior from Dad, all of which has fallen on deaf ears. Every time ex did something harebrained before the trial, he was given more parenting time, and no parenting education, not even an admonition. Granted, he has not done THIS before.

 

[CdwJava]

The fact he admitted to leaving the kids alone for a few minutes may be a matter best left to the Family Court and not the police. Unless HI has statutory law regarding the age a child may be left alone, or has a neglect statute that has been modified by case law, then dad may not be guilty of any criminal offense.

It might be worth notifying child services (aka CPS) or the Family Court concerning conditions for visitations, but I doubt the police can do a whole lot.

 

[killerzoey]

The fact he admitted to leaving the kids alone for a few minutes may be a matter best left to the Family Court and not the police. Unless HI has statutory law regarding the age a child may be left alone, or has a neglect statute that has been modified by case law, then dad may not be guilty of any criminal offense.

It might be worth notifying child services (aka CPS) or the Family Court concerning conditions for visitations, but I doubt the police can do a whole lot.

Hawaii does not have a minimum age for kids being left alone. I am not sure if the neglect statute has been modified by case law (how would I find this out)? The statute (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/histatutes/1/20/350/350-1) reads that

"Child abuse or neglect" means the acts or omissions of any person who, or legal entity which, is in any manner or degree related to the child, is residing with the child, or is otherwise responsible for the child's care, that have resulted in the physical or psychological health or welfare of the child, who is under the age of eighteen, to be harmed, or to be subject to any reasonably foreseeable, substantial risk of being harmed..."

 

[Proserpina]

Hawaii does not have a minimum age for kids being left alone. I am not sure if the neglect statute has been modified by case law (how would I find this out)? The statute (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/histatutes/1/20/350/350-1) reads that

"Child abuse or neglect" means the acts or omissions of any person who, or legal entity which, is in any manner or degree related to the child, is residing with the child, or is otherwise responsible for the child's care, that have resulted in the physical or psychological health or welfare of the child, who is under the age of eighteen, to be harmed, or to be subject to any reasonably foreseeable, substantial risk of being harmed..."

That's honestly where I see the problem. I'm not convinced that leaving them alone for 20 minutes actually did constitute the underlined. I'm not saying for a second that it was a good parenting choice (doh), but I'm not sure you could actually convince the court that it did meet that burden.

 

[CdwJava]

That's honestly where I see the problem. I'm not convinced that leaving them alone for 20 minutes actually did constitute the underlined. I'm not saying for a second that it was a good parenting choice (doh), but I'm not sure you could actually convince the court that it did meet that burden.

I agree.

We have a similar statute here, and it becomes a real bear to articulate the elements of a criminal offense. However, had the police been called, they might well have been able to justify taking the children into protective custody provided dad had been gone for some time and there was no known return time.

 

[st-kitts]

I would notify child services and let them decide whether a 6 year old is capable of being soley responsible for a 3 year old. I don't think so. While on any given day most kids of this age can sit quietly for 20 minutes, even an hour, without mom or dad so much as popping their head in the room to see how they are, children of this age are impuslive and unpredictable. There is the chance the kids might decide to jump from the furniture, boil water, cross the road, or any of the hundred impulsive actions that a small child can make without warning. The presence of an adult is needed partly to ensure someone responsible is available to react IF something goes wrong.