Emancipation

[Jymbo]

I could use a little counsel here.....and events update

There's no need for her to be afraid. But I'm not surprised that she wasn't keen on the replies.

Yup. I am looking for a little counsel here..(see I do check with other people).
Ky got emotional again...etc etc...she seems to think that once she graduates in December that she will be immediately emancipated (like the court system will bow to her wishes immediately). She is working quite a few hours, thankfully she broke it off with the boy (she found out Daddy was right...gosh it must have hurt her to admit that). And I believe she is showing financial irresponsibility, spending 70 of her first small 96.00 paycheck on useless stuff i.e. 28.00 for nail job and 30.00 for punk/goth watch & band and nasty wallet (boys mind you) and a few dollars on very inappropriate underwear that I have destroyed. The other checks we have not let her cash yet for fear they would just fly out the window.
Getting to the point, as you have read she considers me the Via bus
(which I have made a sign that I put on my truck now to remind her of her statement). Do y'all think I should start charging her for gas, maybe rent if she wants to be so difficult?

 

[stealth2]

Well (bear in mind I don't have teens. Yet. My oldest will be one in 2 months.), I'm not so old that I don't remember blowing my first paycheck, and I'm sure my folks thought what I got with it was pretty stupid. And it must have been 'cause I don't remember what I got! But parents do tend to think that a lot of what kids think is SO IMPORTANT to have and that they'll DIE without is total trash - but right now it's important and cool and she feels grown-up being able to pay for it with the money she earned! And ya know - that's a pretty reasonable reaction, IMO. Whether you agree with the items or not - she DID work for them. I probably would not have destroyed the underwear, to be honest. By 16, Dad choosing appropriate bras & panties is a little over the top. (Admittedly, I may be biased on this issue as I have an ex who makes an issue of boxers vs briefs for our son - the almost teen.)

It might be a better course of action for you to consider setting up a 30-60 minute consultation with a financial planner-type person (I'd suggest sitting down with her yourself, but I suspect she's more likely to listen to someone else) who'll help her get a better grasp on handling her money. She's going to be out on her own in less than two years, and that's info she needs to have. S/he could help her see how she needs to budget her earnings to cover gas, insurance, entertainment, etc.

As for charging her gas? Sure, that's reasonable. I had a hand-me-down car from my older brother, so I paid for the gas I used. If she's using one of your cars, you need to come up with a mutually acceptable reimbursement method. For example, it wouldn't be fair for her to run the gas down to empty and expect you to fill it - nor would it be fair for you to do the same to her. Figure out what her usage is and come to an agreement on what she pays you for gas. If the car's on empty when she takes it and she fills it up - you should credit her (or pay her back). She should also be paying for her portion of the car insurance.

Rent/food? I'm not a big fan of that sort of thing for a minor child. Does she do chores and pitch in around the house? If so, she's doing her job. Since she's working, having her pay for the difference between clothes you're willing to buy (Hanes granny panties ) and what she wants (thongs) is reasonable.

The long and the short of it is (IMO) that you need to get on the stick to help her learn how to be a responsible grown-up. She'll find in short order that some things may have to be sacrificed for others. If she wants a car to drive, she's got to have gas money and insurance so the nail jobs may have to go. Or she can get her nails done and take the bus. Choose your battles, but more importantly - choose which hills are worth dying on. Not all of them are.

 

[Jymbo]

Clarifications and rebuttal

Well Stealth there are a few things I disagree with you on and there are a couple of clarifications.
Whether you agree with the items or not - she DID work for them. I probably would not have destroyed the underwear, to be honest. By 16, Dad choosing appropriate bras & panties is a little over the top.

Wrong, as you and others have pointed out in this forum and others, the parent controls the life of the child until the age of 18 unless emancipated. Plus if you had seen the thongs in question, they were only appropriate for skanky strippers. Thongs with chains on them are wayyyyy inappropriate and clothing that seems to advocate a certain lifestyle, i.e. whorish/gothic or beyond her appropriate age group are NOT allowed in the home. We DON’T require burqas or Amish clothing. Oh, finally the appropriate undergarments department for Ky is my wifes job since it would be a little strange for me to be in the department store with her and saying “that one makes you look perky”.

Does she do chores and pitch in around the house?

She is supposed to, but it ain’t happening. It feels like we have the whips out to get her to do her minimal chores. Kitty litter, feeding the animals, vacuuming, trash and dishes after supper. As she gets older her chore list is to expand close to what she would have to do on her own.

As for the ride situation, she does not have her learners or license. She has not earned it. I am the taxi driver 2 to 4 times a day, maybe that is why she thinks I am a bus driver.
Financial planning, not a problem, we have been doing that for her for a LLLLLOONNNG time. In one ear out the other situation going on. She will have to learn the hard way I am afraid.

You said choose your battles wisely. That is advice for her not to me. You forget, I own the battlefield, the tanks (otherwise known as the truck). She is about to lose her job, because of that, her hours are increasing and the state does not allow a teen to work the hours she has been given and as a result other critical areas are slipping. School first, home second and work third should be the case, but sadly she is reversing the orders.

 

[OhBullship]

When I read the first replies you posted I was thinking what a good job you are doing. After reading your last one, I have a much better idea why she wants to run away.

I volunteer quite a bit of my time at a shelter that houses at risk kids. You might be surprised by how many of these kids come from "good" homes. Their parents no longer know what to do with these kids, and there just aren't enough homes available for them, so they are put into group homes. The ones who come from the "good" homes are frequently subject to the "my way or the highway" attitude. The parents feel it is their home, and these are their children, so they have some type of sacred duty to micro manage their child's life. These children are more rebellious many times than the ones who have had no parental influence, or even physical abuse.

Obviously you love your child; have you ever shown her that? I'm not talking about raiding her underwear drawer, that isn't going to make her feel loved. Have you ever placed any belief in her at all, besides a belief that she cannot do anything right? That is what you are expressing, intentional or not. You might feel you are trying to bring out the best in her, she might feel that you have absolutely zero confidence in her. Getting into a pissing contest with a child is silly, and you are bound to lose. You might be able to force your child to do what you want, but you will never be able to force her to respect you, which is what it appears you are looking for.

If you do not allow her to make some decisions for herself right now, she is going to be turned loose into the world having no idea HOW to make good decisions because she has had no practice. By this age your parenting should be more along the lines of guidance. That isn't what I'm reading here.

Before you start on some "tough love" crap with me, I'm an advocate when it is used appropriately. I'm not seeing much love in your words, it appears to be more about control.

I cannot believe you actually wrote this: "You forget, I own the battlefield, the tanks (otherwise known as the truck)" This is your child, not some silly game. These power plays are likely doing much more harm than good.

You said "as a result other critical areas are slipping. School first, home second and work third should be the case, but sadly she is reversing the orders."

Have you considered that there might be a reason for that? Children really do live what they learn. If home is hell for her, why would she want to do better? She does have responsibilities. I'm not suggesting she should be allowed to slack. When is the last time you actually listened to her? When is the last time you told her she did a good job, or she is a good kid? She doesn't need to be perfect to hear that she is a good kid. I tell the kids at the shelter they are doing great if they put out a half-ass effort. Do you know how they almost always respond? They put out even more effort.

You only have a few more years with your child. Is it worth the risk of alienating yourself from your future grandchildren, just for the chance to be the boss? Is it worth the risk that your daughter will be ill prepared for life as an adult, because you wanted it all done your way? She is your kid, and you have the right and ability to really help her, or screw things up for her. I hope you will understand and at least acknowledge the part your attitude might be playing in this.

 

[Jymbo]

Way off base....

I now know how the 1001st Phillistine felt. Missing being slain by the jawbone of an ass.
First, I admit I probably should not be responding when in low blood sugar and after a baaaad day repairing a busted water main.
Second, get down off the cross cause someone else could use the wood.
There are many aspects that are not posted here that perhaps you might have wanted to ask about. She has ADHD with probable ODD and an IQ well in excess of the genius level. It is not uncommon for those to be linked hand in hand.
Micro-manage? I wish I had the time for that. Again I think you missed the point. She is punished for items that would ordinarily be considered a crime (theft, cheating etc., which she has done). Her punishments, when meted out are within what society would place on her. We generally give 3 strikes, and by gosh she is just totally surprised when the promised punishment is meted out, followed by yelling and screaming (a teen temper tantrum).
Do I love her? Yes more than you can imagine. Do I tell her I love her, YES! More often than you can imagine. Do I trust her? NO. Trust is like respect, it is earned or broken. Unfortunately she has broken it more times than I care to recount.
Do I believe she will grow up to be a fine adult. Time will tell, but I think the seeds are there. She is 16 going on 40, but I pray nightly that she finally catches on that there is a big wide world out there full of wonder and unfortunately evil.
If you did not read on the post I stated I was looking for honest critiquing and counsel. Not moral posturing.

 

[CdwJava]

Sadly, I see the results of the children that come from homes where the parents either do not give a rat's rear end about their kid(s), or, they actively destroy their child's life.

No child responds the same way to any of the alternatives mentioned in the last few posts. What might work for Jymbo's daughter might not work for mine (if I had a daughter instead of three boys) - even if they were to have similar issues and problems.

The point is that Jymbo is in the best position to judge what is right and effective in trying to guide his child - not the rest of us. And personally, I see nothing he has done that I can disagree with on its face - based on what was written here.

I am an advocate of tough love. Tough love does NOT mean without compassion. Abuse and being tough or stern are not synonymous.

For me and mine, we believe in establishing boundaries, and enacting swift and certain punishment for exceeding those boundaries ... even if not severe.

To quote a line from Montgomery-Gentry: "... a broken rule, a consequence."

And to use an old phrase: "An ounce of prevention is worth an ounce of cure." I would rather discipline today then sit through a probation hearing tomorrow.

And to quote from my favorite book: "Proverbs 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."

- Carl

 

[stealth2]

You said choose your battles wisely. That is advice for her not to me. You forget, I own the battlefield, the tanks (otherwise known as the truck).

Yes, you are the boss. And you do own the battlefield. However, not every battlefield needs to be fought upon - a good commander knows that some battles are best left until another day.

CDW - I agree absolutely. And we can only give input based on our own experiences - he can take/leave all or part of it. (edit - and I think the saying is "An ounce of prevention is worth an pound of cure." )

 

[OhBullship]

Jymbo, perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about, but it isn't my child who is posting on the internet from the alternative school, trying to get away from home. It wasn't me, who as a parent, asked for the opinions of outsiders.

Second, if you want to be judged on the facts, post the facts you want used to judge you. Of course I don't know what you have not posted, I don't read minds. You certainly want her to be judged by others without the facts. Don't you like it when the same rules also apply to you?

Third, you set out to humiliate your child publicly. When you started it, I was thinking that she deserves what she gets, but you are going just a wee bit farther than what looks healthy. Humiliation is not an appropriate punishment, when it is not a natural consequence of her own actions. When she posted and asked the initial questions, your responses were beautiful, and right on target. Dragging her post back up, after it all settles down is not the same thing at all.

Tough love is a great tool for when all else fails. All of our children need disciplined, and some need a bit more than others. It is never appropriate to slap your child's hand when they are reaching out for help though.

 

[Jymbo]

Voice of Reason

Thank you once again Carl for being the voice of moderation and reason. Never met you, but dang if I am in Cali any time soon I think I should buy you a beer...or a mocha and a croissant.
Stealth, you are absolutely correct. Not every battle ground needs to be fought (and often we overlook many little transgressions just like our parents did with us I am sure). As the battle ground owner and de factor commander I try to choose the battles with care.
Bulldroppings, if I was to post all of the facts, good and bad it would take probably longer than anyone of us has time for. And I do wish to avoid thoroughly embarrasing my daughter in public. The same rules do apply to me, and you have no idea how often I am the butt of jokes around the house and I don't mind it at all. I have NOT set out to publicly humiliate her. Just like most people, she needs no help in accomplishing that task. Posting just the facts that I want used to judge me would be inappropriate, I try and post the salient facts be it good or bad. Unfortunately with the limited space I cannot post every little detail nor should I.
If you could have seen her doubling up with laughter when she came out of work that night with the VIA bus sign on our vehicle (that is the name of our local mass transit company), she knew she had been had and knew the purpose was not humiliation but humor. So perhaps you best summed it up with your opening sentence, perhaps you don't know what you are talking about.
I dragged it back up for a reason, is it fair to charge her for certain things, ie gas, rent, etc. since she is so keen trying to act like an adult but not meeting the requirements yet such as putting financial obligations ahead of personal desires.(the rent idea has some merits, but the purpose of it I would not post in public in case Ky decides to check back in and see what is up)

 

[OhBullship]

Just keep doing what you are doing. When you wonder where she gets her lack of restraint and maturity, you need look no farther than yourself. As I said, it is your kid, not mine, that is on the wrong track. You asked for opinions, can you really not handle conflict any better than that?

 

[djohnson]

I think you are a fine father, just strict. You keep coming off as more so. I agree you have to keep teens in line, but there is a limit where you learn from trial and error also. She needs those chances some. It seems like she finds them on her own though. I think what she purchased with money she earned she should have been allowed to keep. I understand not wanting her to have it, however, in a few days when she is broke again and all she has is this pair or half underwear that rubs her raw and she can't sit down, she'll think about how much better that money could have been spent. The way you handled it makes you the bad guy with her when if let to her own devices I think she would have learned a good life lesson from it. Maybe sit down with a budget with her and be reasonable about what cost of living would be make her put it in a savings and then let her have the rest (if there is any) to blow however she wants. She'll learn to do better with it, but she has to learn. She can't do that with you controlling even those minor parts of her life. It's to give her some rope, as the saying goes.

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

How can you humiliate your daughter in this way? You go through a 16 year olds panties?

 

[thelizzy]

In defense of Jymbo, maybe he just happened to see them when she either left them lying about or had them in the laundry. My father used to complain about my "slingshots" too when I was 16/17/18, granted, none of mine were made of leather or had chains dangling off of them.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

This thread needs to die.....

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

This thread needs to die.....

He needs to delete it and deal with this in his home. Hopefully he will open an ear to his child.