Florida, Step Parent Child Support Under Estoppel Forms

[stealth2]

Assuming makes an ass out you... I'm not trying to 'screw him over.'

He has always held them out as 'his kids.' He 'demands' to be 'treated as if he 'has' parental rights, but he refuses the 'responsibility' that those rights come with.

I will do what I have to do to teach my children what it means to be accountable.

And where is your responsibility wrt te "detriment" portion? Or "reliance", for that matter.

I suggest you follow the rest of what is in the information you linked:

Because laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, if you have concerns about your rights or obligations under the law, it is always in your best interests to consult with a lawyer for help with understanding the rules in your state.

 

[MomFightsBack]

...and you won't find "forms" to use, because Florida doesn't allow it.

If you don't like the answer, go get your own attorney. Really.

I'd like to know if you can provide any citation to this assertion that Florida 'doesn't allow it'.

 

[Zigner]

You've proven that by deflecting from the question of why you think he should be allowed to do what he did ...

Why he should be "allowed" to do what he did is wholly irrelevant to your child support question. Florida law does not allow you to collect child support from the stepparent.

 

[Zigner]

I'd like to know if you can provide any citation to this assertion that Florida 'doesn't allow it'.

Sure, I could - but you're better off paying an attorney, particularly since you've burned your bridges with the family law attorney who has responded on this thread.

 

[MomFightsBack]

You were not raped and how dare you bring that analogy into this. Again, go hire counsel. You haven't corrected anything.

Really? How do you know I wasn't raped? Do you know me? Do you know anything at all about me? Nope.

Here is what I know about you...

You know nothing about me or why I'm doing what I am doing... but you 'assumed' I have 'ill intentions' and attacked me on a personal level.
You asked me why I think I am 'entitled' to support from this man... I responded by asking you why you think he would be entitled 'not to pay it'.... (he wants the rights, so do you not think those 'rights' should come with those responsibilities?)
But instead of answering me, you insinuated that I should be 'accountable' for allowing him to 'hold them out as his own', and continuing to refuse to acknowledge HIS responsibility to be accountable for HIS actions.... bit of a double standard there, isn't it? (Yeah, I know, don't answer, just toss out some more personal attacks and name calling.. don't try to empathize...)

Here are some facts: (And if you continue to attack ME after this, then I'm just going to block you because it's already pretty evident that you are determined to find fault with anything I say because of your own need to make assumptions and go on the attack based on a pre-conceived notions, but I'll make one last attempt at reason... and then I won't have to respond to you, and everyone else can see that THIS is why...)

Their bio father disappeared after serving in Iraq and having a complete and total psychotic break with reality from PTSD.
My husband was a foster kid and adopted himself. And then given back by the grandparents who adopted him to the abusive mother who abandoned him to the abusive father who put them in foster care.
I did ask him how he felt he could love them as 'his own' and he told me, "Because I was in foster care and because I was adopted."
He had adopted them in his mind and in his heart, and yes, I allowed it. Because bio dad was gone and never coming back. (I have had the same email address and phone number since 2 years prior to bio dad's meltdown... he has never attempted to make contact)
I also allowed it for legal reasons and just so you know, we also attempted step-parent adoption. For years, we were unable to do it in Florida, due to bio dad... despite his lack of involvement in their lives, he was still entitled to notice and to stop the adoption if he wanted to... and he was (and still is) too volatile. I have no doubt that he would have stopped it just because he could... not because he wanted any relationship with his kids. My husband and I even considered moving to another state where bio dad would not have even been entitled to 'notice' because we were not married, but, circumstances, jobs, finances, families here, logistics... we never made it. I only learned after my husband left that Florida's laws regarding notice had changed and that bio dad was now no longer 'entitled' to notice... I can't recall the exact reason right now why I wouldn't have had to give him notice, but it seems that that is now the case.

And, for the RECORD... my kids have always known he is not 'bio' dad. They know he is 'step-dad.' Legalities don't have a damn thing to do with love, morals, values, or HONOR...

Also... my husband and I went to a mediator last August and we explained to her that he wanted legal rights and she suggested he just sign their birth certificates (bio dad not on them) instead of going the legal adoption route, and he AGREED to that... but we didn't finish mediation and he's thus far refused to go back... (the truth is, this man does not even want a divorce. As I have stated, he is very emotionally unhealthy, he has a lot of unresolved anger issues, stemming from unresolved childhood trauma, and he is exhibiting all of the signs of ... an addict. (And I went through a year and a half of a very intensive recovery program to help me heal from the emotional and psychological trauma his actions put me through, and came out of it still loving him, and forgiving him.. and learning that I need to set boundaries and consequences for him, and THAT is what this is about.

He is not a 'bad' man. He is a good man, doing a bad thing. And he is an emotionally unhealthy man right now. That doesn't mean I stop loving him, but I also have to protect myself and my kids.

Cutting him out of their lives helps no one. Not them. Not him.

Him getting help helps all of us, but he will not be able to see this until he starts to feel 'consequences' for his actions.

If he WERE 'bio' or 'legal' father, this would be easy to do... I would be able to document the behavior in court, and ask for and probably get court-ordered counseling for him and for us, and supervised visits until he complies.

But as he is NOT 'bio dad', so unless I can find some kind of 'establishment' of him as 'father', the courts won't 'hear' ANYTHING regarding the kids and I either give in to his hypocritical demands to see them on HIS terms, or, my kids have no relationship with him at all... neither of which are healthy (considering that my husband actually has TWO girlfriends and is exposing our kids to that...)

My husband has his own issues, emotional issues that he's never worked through.
He doesn't follow through on things.
He doesn't finish things.
He is also a people pleaser.

A woman came along who wanted him, behaving very inappropriately with him, she started speaking ill of our marriage to him, exchanged late night texts with him with meme's that would make Hugh Hefner blush.

He, being a people pleaser did not 'assert' himself with her and tell her to mind her own business about his marriage.
She continued to insinuate to him that he was 'failing at life,' but not because of HIM... because of his 'marriage.'

An addict is extremely prone to feeling 'kinship' towards anyone who helps them to 'blame' someone else for their own lives...

She became his boss and used that 'position' to threaten not to promote him if I didn't 'keep my mouth shut' about their inappropriate relationship... he, already blaming me and having her 'help' to blame me for him being where he was in life, didn't want to risk not getting promoted, so again, didn't assert himself with her..

(And yes, looking back now, I should have done a lot of things differently when this started, but at the time, I knew nothing of infidelity, the reasons it happens, what I could do to stop it.... and by the time I found it... the damage was done)

Then, 2 months after making the threat, he did get promoted and the two of them both proclaimed how she 'fought for him to get promoted,'...

And now, she was his 'hero', helping him 'overcome' that horrible home life that was holding him back... but oh, wait a year later, he stepped DOWN from that position... he may have not have been 'moving forward in life with me,' but with her, he's moving backwards...

Regardless... he played the back and forth games with the kids for almost 2 years now.

And I am doing this for a number of reasons... and if it's not allowed in Florida, I have no problem moving to a state where it is allowed, establishing my residency there and filing from there.

This is about setting my boundaries with him... if he wants to be treated as if he HAS legal rights, then he needs to accept the responsibilities that go with those rights.

That is what I teach my children. Responsibility and accountability. Even, not double, standards.

And hopefully, it's enough to open my husband's eyes to see that he's hurting the kids.

Because it's not about his money honey... he makes $8.50 an hour. It's about establishing acceptable and unacceptable behaviors... I HOPE that it will 'open his eyes'.. I HOPE that when HE is COMPELLED to answer the question, "What makes you think you're entitled to legal rights without the legal responsibilities that go with them?" he has a better answer than 'not my family'... because that lame answer would then COMPEL him to answer the next question, "Then what makes you think you should have legal rights to them?" ... And in a court room, he wouldn't be allowed to answer that with personal attacks and calling me names.

And hopefully, being compelled to answer those questions would open his eyes...
If not, then if I win, my kids learn that deflection doesn't absolve you
If I lose, then at least my kids know that I fought for the morals and beliefs I am trying to raise them with...

I hope your day gets better and your life brings you much joy and happiness.

 

[MomFightsBack]

I'd like to know if you can provide any citation to this assertion that Florida 'doesn't allow it'.

Well, your 'spite' reveals more about you than it does about me, but THANK YOU for pointing out the 'abusive lawyer' who I 'burned my bridge with' after I was attacked... I'll be notifying a state bar about this behavior. All screen shots now saved.

 

[stealth2]

I really feel sorry for your kids.

 

[Zigner]

Well, your 'spite' reveals more about you than it does about me, but THANK YOU for pointing out the 'abusive lawyer' who I 'burned my bridge with' after I was attacked... I'll be notifying a state bar about this behavior. All screen shots now saved.

Right....

 

[MomFightsBack]

You'd probably be less angry if you didn't automatically speak to everyone as if you're a prosecutor who is cross examining them.

I mean I get that it's either your job, or you're here because you wish it was your job (because you like to argue...) but give it a rest.

 

[Zigner]

You'd probably be less angry if you didn't automatically speak to everyone as if you're a prosecutor who is cross examining them.

I mean I get that it's either your job, or you're here because you wish it was your job (because you like to argue...) but give it a rest.

Oh, man, I'm so glad you came on to this forum to make sure we understand how we should reply. Thank you thank you thank you. It's all clear now.

 

[LdiJ]

Really? How do you know I wasn't raped? Do you know me? Do you know anything at all about me? Nope.

Here is what I know about you...

You know nothing about me or why I'm doing what I am doing... but you 'assumed' I have 'ill intentions' and attacked me on a personal level.
You asked me why I think I am 'entitled' to support from this man... I responded by asking you why you think he would be entitled 'not to pay it'.... (he wants the rights, so do you not think those 'rights' should come with those responsibilities?)
But instead of answering me, you insinuated that I should be 'accountable' for allowing him to 'hold them out as his own', and continuing to refuse to acknowledge HIS responsibility to be accountable for HIS actions.... bit of a double standard there, isn't it? (Yeah, I know, don't answer, just toss out some more personal attacks and name calling.. don't try to empathize...)

Here are some facts: (And if you continue to attack ME after this, then I'm just going to block you because it's already pretty evident that you are determined to find fault with anything I say because of your own need to make assumptions and go on the attack based on a pre-conceived notions, but I'll make one last attempt at reason... and then I won't have to respond to you, and everyone else can see that THIS is why...)

Their bio father disappeared after serving in Iraq and having a complete and total psychotic break with reality from PTSD.
My husband was a foster kid and adopted himself. And then given back by the grandparents who adopted him to the abusive mother who abandoned him to the abusive father who put them in foster care.
I did ask him how he felt he could love them as 'his own' and he told me, "Because I was in foster care and because I was adopted."
He had adopted them in his mind and in his heart, and yes, I allowed it. Because bio dad was gone and never coming back. (I have had the same email address and phone number since 2 years prior to bio dad's meltdown... he has never attempted to make contact)
I also allowed it for legal reasons and just so you know, we also attempted step-parent adoption. For years, we were unable to do it in Florida, due to bio dad... despite his lack of involvement in their lives, he was still entitled to notice and to stop the adoption if he wanted to... and he was (and still is) too volatile. I have no doubt that he would have stopped it just because he could... not because he wanted any relationship with his kids. My husband and I even considered moving to another state where bio dad would not have even been entitled to 'notice' because we were not married, but, circumstances, jobs, finances, families here, logistics... we never made it. I only learned after my husband left that Florida's laws regarding notice had changed and that bio dad was now no longer 'entitled' to notice... I can't recall the exact reason right now why I wouldn't have had to give him notice, but it seems that that is now the case.

And, for the RECORD... my kids have always known he is not 'bio' dad. They know he is 'step-dad.' Legalities don't have a damn thing to do with love, morals, values, or HONOR...

Also... my husband and I went to a mediator last August and we explained to her that he wanted legal rights and she suggested he just sign their birth certificates (bio dad not on them) instead of going the legal adoption route, and he AGREED to that... but we didn't finish mediation and he's thus far refused to go back... (the truth is, this man does not even want a divorce. As I have stated, he is very emotionally unhealthy, he has a lot of unresolved anger issues, stemming from unresolved childhood trauma, and he is exhibiting all of the signs of ... an addict. (And I went through a year and a half of a very intensive recovery program to help me heal from the emotional and psychological trauma his actions put me through, and came out of it still loving him, and forgiving him.. and learning that I need to set boundaries and consequences for him, and THAT is what this is about.

He is not a 'bad' man. He is a good man, doing a bad thing. And he is an emotionally unhealthy man right now. That doesn't mean I stop loving him, but I also have to protect myself and my kids.

Cutting him out of their lives helps no one. Not them. Not him.

Him getting help helps all of us, but he will not be able to see this until he starts to feel 'consequences' for his actions.

If he WERE 'bio' or 'legal' father, this would be easy to do... I would be able to document the behavior in court, and ask for and probably get court-ordered counseling for him and for us, and supervised visits until he complies.

But as he is NOT 'bio dad', so unless I can find some kind of 'establishment' of him as 'father', the courts won't 'hear' ANYTHING regarding the kids and I either give in to his hypocritical demands to see them on HIS terms, or, my kids have no relationship with him at all... neither of which are healthy (considering that my husband actually has TWO girlfriends and is exposing our kids to that...)

My husband has his own issues, emotional issues that he's never worked through.
He doesn't follow through on things.
He doesn't finish things.
He is also a people pleaser.

A woman came along who wanted him, behaving very inappropriately with him, she started speaking ill of our marriage to him, exchanged late night texts with him with meme's that would make Hugh Hefner blush.

He, being a people pleaser did not 'assert' himself with her and tell her to mind her own business about his marriage.
She continued to insinuate to him that he was 'failing at life,' but not because of HIM... because of his 'marriage.'

An addict is extremely prone to feeling 'kinship' towards anyone who helps them to 'blame' someone else for their own lives...

She became his boss and used that 'position' to threaten not to promote him if I didn't 'keep my mouth shut' about their inappropriate relationship... he, already blaming me and having her 'help' to blame me for him being where he was in life, didn't want to risk not getting promoted, so again, didn't assert himself with her..

(And yes, looking back now, I should have done a lot of things differently when this started, but at the time, I knew nothing of infidelity, the reasons it happens, what I could do to stop it.... and by the time I found it... the damage was done)

Then, 2 months after making the threat, he did get promoted and the two of them both proclaimed how she 'fought for him to get promoted,'...

And now, she was his 'hero', helping him 'overcome' that horrible home life that was holding him back... but oh, wait a year later, he stepped DOWN from that position... he may have not have been 'moving forward in life with me,' but with her, he's moving backwards...

Regardless... he played the back and forth games with the kids for almost 2 years now.

And I am doing this for a number of reasons... and if it's not allowed in Florida, I have no problem moving to a state where it is allowed, establishing my residency there and filing from there.

This is about setting my boundaries with him... if he wants to be treated as if he HAS legal rights, then he needs to accept the responsibilities that go with those rights.

That is what I teach my children. Responsibility and accountability. Even, not double, standards.

And hopefully, it's enough to open my husband's eyes to see that he's hurting the kids.

Because it's not about his money honey... he makes $8.50 an hour. It's about establishing acceptable and unacceptable behaviors... I HOPE that it will 'open his eyes'.. I HOPE that when HE is COMPELLED to answer the question, "What makes you think you're entitled to legal rights without the legal responsibilities that go with them?" he has a better answer than 'not my family'... because that lame answer would then COMPEL him to answer the next question, "Then what makes you think you should have legal rights to them?" ... And in a court room, he wouldn't be allowed to answer that with personal attacks and calling me names.

And hopefully, being compelled to answer those questions would open his eyes...
If not, then if I win, my kids learn that deflection doesn't absolve you
If I lose, then at least my kids know that I fought for the morals and beliefs I am trying to raise them with...

I hope your day gets better and your life brings you much joy and happiness.

Well, of course you realize that your husband has no legal rights regarding your children at all. You have the total choice to decide whether or not they have any contact with him. Based on everything that you are saying here it really does sound like it is perhaps not in their best interest to have much contact with him until he gets some help for his problems. You certainly should NOT agree to any court orders allowing him official access to them.

Its also not very likely that a judge would order that he have access to them over your objections. Florida's supreme court has shot down third party visitation statutes in a big way...and he would be a third party. Therefore unless you allow court orders to be made by agreeing, they will not be made.

It is also unrealistic for you to ask for child support from him. If he is only making $8.75 an hour he is barely able to support himself. I understand the point you were trying to get at, but its just not realistic.

 

[Zigner]

It is also unrealistic for you to ask for child support from him. If he is only making $8.75 an hour he is barely able to support himself. I understand the point you were trying to get at, but its just not realistic.

It's unrealistic to ask for child support because he's under NO obligation (legal or otherwise) to provide ANY support for HER kids.

 

[Ohiogal]

It's unrealistic to ask for child support because he's under NO obligation (legal or otherwise) to provide ANY support for HER kids.

Especially since she made the decision NOT to contact the actual father and he has NOT held the children out as his own if he has always been known as stepdad to the children and everyone else. But hey, this is her fantasy world. We are just the harsh reality in it.

 

[LdiJ]

It's unrealistic to ask for child support because he's under NO obligation (legal or otherwise) to provide ANY support for HER kids.

If there was any remote chance that she would qualify to collect support from him under the estoppel doctrine that she is claiming, the fact that he only makes $8.75 an hour would pretty much prove that he wasn't actually supporting her children while they were married. That is what is unrealistic about it. If he was the actual biological or legal father I would say that even making only $8.75 an hour he would still be required to provide some support to his children.

 

[Zigner]

If there was any remote chance that she would qualify to collect support from him under the estoppel doctrine that she is claiming, the fact that he only makes $8.75 an hour would pretty much prove that he wasn't actually supporting her children while they were married. That is what is unrealistic about it. If he was the actual biological or legal father I would say that even making only $8.75 an hour he would still be required to provide some support to his children.

It's moot. Florida LAW doesn't allow for this. He could be making $139.73 per hour and working 60 hours per week, and she still wouldn't be able to collect.