Gradual reintroduction question

[NCMomof5]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NC, but court orders are in TN

Ok, I posted before about my situation. 3 children with my exhusband, separated in 07, divorce in 08, he only used a few of his visitation periods after the divorce and has gone a significant amount of time without seeing the children, or remaining in touch with them over the phone. He is in the military...he was also in Korea from 07-08 (we separated before he left) and while I realize some of his absence has not been his faut do to deployment, he has seen the kids 3-4 times in over 4 years now, with those visits happening in summer of 08.

I went back to court last summer because he was talking about coming to pick the kids up for his summer visit (which would have been 6 weeks) I was concerned because he had been absent for so long, and didn't feel it was right to have such a long visit after being gone for so long. My children are 11,8, and 6, and he has spent very little time with the youngest. Outside of the 3-4 visits, he only lived with him for 14 months when he was an infant. Well he ended up deploying last summer, before we got to court, and we ended up doing mediation in November. He is supposed to have a series of short visits as a reintroduction, in NC, leading up to being able to take them for a week at Christmas back to TN, and then regular visits after that. He flaked out on his first visit, which was supposed to be while he was home on leave in November.

He is due to get home in the beginning of July. I know when he will be home, and he is planning to take his time with the kids here in NC towards the end of July. He asked for the dates. There was some drama involved because he was wanting to rent a small room with him, his GF (they only started dating two months before he deployed) and the three kids in a regular room. I was able to get this solved by paying for a larger room myself. Sucked for me, but I want the kids to be comfortable.

Anyways, the issue now is that I am plaaning to allow my kids to visit my parents in Ohio. They are going for two weeks, and will return in the middle of July, in plenty of time for him to have his visit. My parents have payed for plane tickets to fly them up, and reserved a rental for me to go and pick them up at the end of the visit. He has found out that they will be visiting (someone from my facebook page was passing information to him) and is saying that he is going to be in Ohio then too (his mother lives there) and he's going to just go get them from my mothers house. Is there anything I can do about this other than not letting them visit? It is clear in the court order that his visits this summer are supposed to follow a schedule. I would have no problem with him picking the kids up for the afternoon up there, or visiting them a few times at my moms house, but I don't think it is fair for him to snatch them on the first day, and keep them when my parents have gone to the expense they have to pay for the visit. There is no right of first refusal in our order because of the distance between our homes.

Do my parents have a right to just tell him no if he shows up looking for the kids? If he calls the police, are they going to let him pick the kids up despite what the custody order says about parenting time?

 

[mistoffolees]

Your parents don't have the right to keep a child from a parent. Period.

As for the rest, he's been active in the military. That gives him a busy schedule and a lot of relocations, so for some time, seeing the kids was difficult. But he now wants to spend time with them.

Just what benefit do you think there is to the kids from you keeping them away from Dad? You can be sure that they remember him - even the younger one.

Either you're interested in supporting the other parent's relationship with the kids or you're not. I pity the kids if it's the latter.

 

[NCMomof5]

Well, he is in the same unit he was in for most of the time we were married. He is in a combat unit. Unless they are deployed, they don't do a whole lot, and while we were together he was able to take 4 day passes very often....pretty much anytime he felt like it. He also gets 30 days of paid vacation a year. Yes, he was obviously unable to visit the kids while deployed, however he has chosen not to be involved in the ways that he can be (skype, the kids have an account, or yahoo, or email) There was also a full two years that he could have visited, and chose not to do so. He chose not to visit while he was on mid tour leave from Korea in early 08. He chose not to visit while he was on midtour from this current deployment.

This forum always talks about the children's best interest. I don't think this gradual reintroduction is unreasonable at all, and HE agreed to it in mediation. Why should he get to disrupt my parents visit with the kids that I allowed them to do on my time? It isn't taking away from his time in the least...My parents have always tried hard to have a good relationship with the kids despite the distance. In his email to me where he tells me about the plan to get them, he clearly says that this is good payback for last year when my mom would not let his mom have the kids for half of her visit. Most likely scenario is that he will pick them up, drop them with his mother who is virtual stranger due to his choice not to allow her to be involved with the kids during our marriage (the day last summer that my mom allowed her to come to her house and visit was the first time she had seen the kids since 2005)

The visits he did have in 2008 were very short. 2 were because I was in TN visiting friends and he picked them up and took them out to dinner one night during those visits. The other two, he came to pick them up in NC, took them back to TN, and called once 2 days later, and the other time 3 days later, because he couldn't "deal with them"

I am not the bad guy here. This has nothing to do with him and his parenting time, and more so to do with him trying to get "revenge" on me and my family anyway that he can. This man went two years without contacting his kids at all. He changed his phone number and wouldn't give me the new one so that the kids could speak to him....

Being in the military doesn't give him the right to be a ****ty father with no consequences..

 

[NCMomof5]

Oh and as for timeline....

Oldest was born in 99. Middle was born in 02. Youngest in 04.

He joined the military in 99 (the motnh before oldest was born) spent 6 months in basic and AIT, shipped directly to Korea (which it later came out that HE chose that assignment).
So training from Nov 99-May 0f 00
Korea from May of 2000-June of 2000
Deployment from February 2003- January 2004
Deployment from March of 2005-June of 2006
Korea again from June of 2007-June 0f 2008
No visits by HIS choice, no contact at all, from August 0f 08 until June of 10, when he asked to come pick up the kids for 6 weeks....which makes no sense because he deployed in early July anyways, and I don't see how he planned to turn the three weeks before he deployed into 6 anyways...

Regardless of the reasons, the kids haven't spent much time with him. That isn't THERE fault, and it doesn't change the fact that they just don't know him very well. Even while we were married, he never made much effort to be involved when he was overseas, usually did not want to speak to them on the phone, declined offers of webcam time. He was actively cheating through 99% of the marriage, and that was what was important to him, not his family.

 

[BL]

Well, he is in the same unit he was in for most of the time we were married. He is in a combat unit. Unless they are deployed, they don't do a whole lot, and while we were together he was able to take 4 day passes very often....pretty much anytime he felt like it. He also gets 30 days of paid vacation a year. Yes, he was obviously unable to visit the kids while deployed, however he has chosen not to be involved in the ways that he can be (skype, the kids have an account, or yahoo, or email) There was also a full two years that he could have visited, and chose not to do so. He chose not to visit while he was on mid tour leave from Korea in early 08. He chose not to visit while he was on midtour from this current deployment.

This forum always talks about the children's best interest. I don't think this gradual reintroduction is unreasonable at all, and HE agreed to it in mediation. Why should he get to disrupt my parents visit with the kids that I allowed them to do on my time? It isn't taking away from his time in the least...My parents have always tried hard to have a good relationship with the kids despite the distance. In his email to me where he tells me about the plan to get them, he clearly says that this is good payback for last year when my mom would not let his mom have the kids for half of her visit. Most likely scenario is that he will pick them up, drop them with his mother who is virtual stranger due to his choice not to allow her to be involved with the kids during our marriage (the day last summer that my mom allowed her to come to her house and visit was the first time she had seen the kids since 2005)

The visits he did have in 2008 were very short. 2 were because I was in TN visiting friends and he picked them up and took them out to dinner one night during those visits. The other two, he came to pick them up in NC, took them back to TN, and called once 2 days later, and the other time 3 days later, because he couldn't "deal with them"

I am not the bad guy here. This has nothing to do with him and his parenting time, and more so to do with him trying to get "revenge" on me and my family anyway that he can. This man went two years without contacting his kids at all. He changed his phone number and wouldn't give me the new one so that the kids could speak to him....

Being in the military doesn't give him the right to be a ****ty father with no consequences..

His rights trump your parents .End of story .

Animosity is not ruled on in a court of law .

The facts are .

You mediated for gradual visitation reintroduction .

If dad want reintroduction time ,give it to him .

Your parents can visit the children on your time .

Why is the forum like this ?

Rights trump out animosity any day.

 

[TheGeekess]

Well, he is in the same unit he was in for most of the time we were married. He is in a combat unit. Unless they are deployed, they don't do a whole lot, and while we were together he was able to take 4 day passes very often....pretty much anytime he felt like it. He also gets 30 days of paid vacation a year. Yes, he was obviously unable to visit the kids while deployed, however he has chosen not to be involved in the ways that he can be (skype, the kids have an account, or yahoo, or email) There was also a full two years that he could have visited, and chose not to do so. He chose not to visit while he was on mid tour leave from Korea in early 08. He chose not to visit while he was on midtour from this current deployment.

This forum always talks about the children's best interest. I don't think this gradual reintroduction is unreasonable at all, and HE agreed to it in mediation. Why should he get to disrupt my parents visit with the kids that I allowed them to do on my time? It isn't taking away from his time in the least...My parents have always tried hard to have a good relationship with the kids despite the distance. In his email to me where he tells me about the plan to get them, he clearly says that this is good payback for last year when my mom would not let his mom have the kids for half of her visit. Most likely scenario is that he will pick them up, drop them with his mother who is virtual stranger due to his choice not to allow her to be involved with the kids during our marriage (the day last summer that my mom allowed her to come to her house and visit was the first time she had seen the kids since 2005)

The visits he did have in 2008 were very short. 2 were because I was in TN visiting friends and he picked them up and took them out to dinner one night during those visits. The other two, he came to pick them up in NC, took them back to TN, and called once 2 days later, and the other time 3 days later, because he couldn't "deal with them"

I am not the bad guy here. This has nothing to do with him and his parenting time, and more so to do with him trying to get "revenge" on me and my family anyway that he can. This man went two years without contacting his kids at all. He changed his phone number and wouldn't give me the new one so that the kids could speak to him....

Being in the military doesn't give him the right to be a ****ty father with no consequences..

No, but being an American with constitutionally protected rights does.

 

[NCMomof5]

That is just it. They are visiting on my time. He asked for the last week of July, and I am even paying for his hotel room so that he CAN come have his week, that HE agreed to have in the reintroduction plan. We planned the vacation with my mom, that they have taken every year, around the dates he asked for. Why should he get to break from the dates he agreed to just to have some "revenge" on me? How is that in the kid's best interest at all? They are very excited about going, and it at this point it looks like it's going to be the 4 days I can get off work and go with them, and that's it. My mom is out the money for her plane tickets, and doesn't get to spend time with them, because he is being a jerk about it.

 

[BL]

That is just it. They are visiting on my time. He asked for the last week of July, and I am even paying for his hotel room so that he CAN come have his week, that HE agreed to have in the reintroduction plan. We planned the vacation with my mom, that they have taken every year, around the dates he asked for. Why should he get to break from the dates he agreed to just to have some "revenge" on me? How is that in the kid's best interest at all? They are very excited about going, and it at this point it looks like it's going to be the 4 days I can get off work and go with them, and that's it. My mom is out the money for her plane tickets, and doesn't get to spend time with them, because he is being a jerk about it.

Realy ,What is the schedule ?

What are the terms of his request ?

Hint . In order to be in violation of a court order the order(s) has to be explicit and a willful failure to obey the order(s) has to occur .

Additionally ,talk about drama since social cites started to exist . Rolleyes

 

[NCMomof5]

The new order says that he was to have a week this summer, and was to choose the dates by May 1st. He did, and he chose the last week of July. (actually the 24th-30th). After that visit, he is to have one long weekend visit each month (Thursday evening until Monday morning) in our state, and is supposed to give me two weeks notice of the dates he selects. Then, in December he was to have the kids for his regularly scheduled half of Christmas break, and we would go back to our normal visitation schedule (which allows him 6 weeks in the summer, every other spring break, every other Thanksgiving break, half of Christmas, alterbnating the first and second halves, and 5 long weekend visits in our state that he can use whenever he wants, with 2 weeks notice) The kids were going to leave for my moms on the 1st of July, and I was going to drive up to retrieve them on the 15th and we would return home on the 18th. So, I would be home in time for him to have the week that he chose. Furthermore, if you look at our original parenting plan, this was my year to have the 4th, and it says in the new plan that the dates he selects cannot include the 4th.

I have seen plenty of times on this forum where someone has told a noncustodial parent that the custodial parents time is their's to use as they see fit, and that having a relationship with extended family is a good thing, so I don't understand why I am being made out to be the bad guy now. From what I am reading here, if I choose later to use my part of summer to send the kids to visit my parents, each and every year he can just go get them and in essence take 8 weeks of summer? How is this fair?

 

[NCMomof5]

Additionally, last summer, he emailed me 2 days before he planned to come and get the kids, despite our order saying that he has to choose his dates by May 1st, and if he doesn't, I pick the dates. I told him that I had plans (we did) and that since it as such a long time since he had seen the kids, that a shorter visit would be more appropriate. I then filed that same day for a modification based on the fact that he had had no contact for 2 years. He was never denied a visit, since he did not show up to get the kids. We were scheduled a date in July, and then he deployed, his attorney came to the hearing and we were ordered to try mediation. My attorney feels that if I had not agreed in mediation, that he would have been given a much less generous plan, and that I was being overly kind to agree to what I agreed to.

Really I am trying to do what is right here, but why should my parents not be allowed some time to see their grandkids?

 

[BL]

The new order says that he was to have a week this summer, and was to choose the dates by May 1st. He did, and he chose the last week of July. (actually the 24th-30th). After that visit, he is to have one long weekend visit each month (Thursday evening until Monday morning) in our state, and is supposed to give me two weeks notice of the dates he selects. Then, in December he was to have the kids for his regularly scheduled half of Christmas break, and we would go back to our normal visitation schedule (which allows him 6 weeks in the summer, every other spring break, every other Thanksgiving break, half of Christmas, alterbnating the first and second halves, and 5 long weekend visits in our state that he can use whenever he wants, with 2 weeks notice) The kids were going to leave for my moms on the 1st of July, and I was going to drive up to retrieve them on the 15th and we would return home on the 18th. So, I would be home in time for him to have the week that he chose. Furthermore, if you look at our original parenting plan, this was my year to have the 4th, and it says in the new plan that the dates he selects cannot include the 4th.

I have seen plenty of times on this forum where someone has told a noncustodial parent that the custodial parents time is their's to use as they see fit, and that having a relationship with extended family is a good thing, so I don't understand why I am being made out to be the bad guy now. From what I am reading here, if I choose later to use my part of summer to send the kids to visit my parents, each and every year he can just go get them and in essence take 8 weeks of summer? How is this fair?

Then he did request the dates in July, follow it .

As far as reverting back to the prior order(s) then that stands .

The 4th should have been addressed if there were a conflict.

 

[InfantCustody]

I am going to disagree that Dad can just go pick the kids up, and if I am wrong I am going to ask someone Senior to tell me why.

Dad is in a reintroduction period. Dad has already selected the dates for that time for his summer visitation, and the children will be available during the time Dad has selected. Unless Dad has a right of first refusal (which I would find highly unlikely) then Dad cannot control what Mom does with the children during her time, or who she lets them spend time with. This is Mom's time, so I don't see Dad being able to go get them and not allow Mom's choice of care-givers to spend time with them.

NOW, that being said, I think it would be really crappy to not let Dad see the children a few times, for a few hours, while they are all in Ohio. Perhaps Dad would like his Mom/family to visit with the children as well? If the kids are there...it would be selfish to not let them visit with dad's family.

In thinking of the best interest of the children, perhaps set a day or two aside where Dad can pick the kids up and let them visit with his family, spend some more time with him, etc.

 

[BL]

Additionally, last summer, he emailed me 2 days before he planned to come and get the kids, despite our order saying that he has to choose his dates by May 1st, and if he doesn't, I pick the dates. I told him that I had plans (we did) and that since it as such a long time since he had seen the kids, that a shorter visit would be more appropriate. I then filed that same day for a modification based on the fact that he had had no contact for 2 years. He was never denied a visit, since he did not show up to get the kids. We were scheduled a date in July, and then he deployed, his attorney came to the hearing and we were ordered to try mediation. My attorney feels that if I had not agreed in mediation, that he would have been given a much less generous plan, and that I was being overly kind to agree to what I agreed to.

Really I am trying to do what is right here, but why should my parents not be allowed some time to see their grandkids?

More drama and anomosity ..

 

[BL]

I am going to disagree that Dad can just go pick the kids up, and if I am wrong I am going to ask someone Senior to tell me why.

Dad is in a reintroduction period. Dad has already selected the dates for that time for his summer visitation, and the children will be available during the time Dad has selected. Unless Dad has a right of first refusal (which I would find highly unlikely) then Dad cannot control what Mom does with the children during her time, or who she lets them spend time with. This is Mom's time, so I don't see Dad being able to go get them and not allow Mom's choice of care-givers to spend time with them.

NOW, that being said, I think it would be really crappy to not let Dad see the children a few times, for a few hours, while they are all in Ohio. Perhaps Dad would like his Mom/family to visit with the children as well? If the kids are there...it would be selfish to not let them visit with dad's family.

In thinking of the best interest of the children, perhaps set a day or two aside where Dad can pick the kids up and let them visit with his family, spend some more time with him, etc.

That pretty well sums it up ,exept there is annomosity between the parties and I don't see it happening .

But yes , if mom has been more that willing ,she should work with her parents to set up some sort of visits while the grands have them . It's called facilitating .

 

[LdiJ]

His rights trump your parents .End of story .

Animosity is not ruled on in a court of law .

The facts are .

You mediated for gradual visitation reintroduction .

If dad want reintroduction time ,give it to him .

Your parents can visit the children on your time .

Why is the forum like this ?

Rights trump out animosity any day.

The bolded is exactly what she has arranged!!!!!! She has arranged for her parents to spend two weeks with the children on HER TIME!!!

You and Misto are telling her that dad has the right to take HER TIME...when dad's visit is already scheduled!

Jeez people, think about what you are telling the posters.

If dad has a schedule he is to follow, then he cannot just take the children on her time, just because they happen to be conveniently in the same location that he will be in...or he conveniently decides to go there while they are there.

OP, I do agree that allowing dad and dad's family to see the children a bit while they are with your parents would be a generous and fair thing to do. However, if dad won't agree with that, then simply tell your parents not to answer the door if dad knocks, or the phone if dad calls.

I would be saying exactly the same thing if the genders were reversed here.