Gradual reintroduction question

[NCMomof5]

I had no idea he would even be visiting his mom until I got his email, which basiclly said, "so and so told me that he saw a post on facebook saying the kids would be in Ohio. Well since you wouldn't let my mom have half the visit last year, I'm going to come get the kids and take the whole thing this time."

Like I said in my first post, we would have worked something out for him to visit if he'd approached it differently. My mom did allow his mom to come to her house and visit with the kids last year. Now though how could she trust him not to take them for the whole time, when she paid out of pocket for them to come?

 

[BL]

I had no idea he would even be visiting his mom until I got his email, which basiclly said, "so and so told me that he saw a post on facebook saying the kids would be in Ohio. Well since you wouldn't let my mom have half the visit last year, I'm going to come get the kids and take the whole thing this time."

Like I said in my first post, we would have worked something out for him to visit if he'd approached it differently. My mom did allow his mom to come to her house and visit with the kids last year. Now though how could she trust him not to take them for the whole time, when she paid out of pocket for them to come?

Ya know what ?

Court order(s) are to be followed then .

Have it your way , and why is grands and grands into this ?

You were accually given legal advice .

 

[InfantCustody]

I had no idea he would even be visiting his mom until I got his email, which basiclly said, "so and so told me that he saw a post on facebook saying the kids would be in Ohio. Well since you wouldn't let my mom have half the visit last year, I'm going to come get the kids and take the whole thing this time."

Like I said in my first post, we would have worked something out for him to visit if he'd approached it differently. My mom did allow his mom to come to her house and visit with the kids last year. Now though how could she trust him not to take them for the whole time, when she paid out of pocket for them to come?

Well, as it sounds, you don't want to work with Dad to allow him ANY extra time with the kids...and you clearly have no intention of allowing his family any contact. There are ALWAYS ways to work around things.

If you really WANTED to encourage and foster Dad/Dad's family seeing the kids WHILE THEY ARE IN OHIO ANYWAY you could tell dad he can pick them up on their second to last day there. Then your Mother gets time, and so does dad's family. You guarantee Dad can't take all the time, but make sure he get's some.

 

[LdiJ]

Well, as it sounds, you don't want to work with Dad to allow him ANY extra time with the kids...and you clearly have no intention of allowing his family any contact. There are ALWAYS ways to work around things.

If you really WANTED to encourage and foster Dad/Dad's family seeing the kids WHILE THEY ARE IN OHIO ANYWAY you could tell dad he can pick them up on their second to last day there. Then your Mother gets time, and so does dad's family. You guarantee Dad can't take all the time, but make sure he get's some.

I am not necessarily picking on you but choosing to quote your post...but I am annoyed with this thread...and annoyed with your response.

Mom clearly stated that she would be willing for dad to spend some time with the children while they are there. She clearly stated that last summer she allowed the paternal gps to spend some time with the children.

Dad clearly stated that he was annoyed that his mother didn't get 1/2 of the children's time the last time they were there, and he clearly stated that he intended to take ALL of the children's time this time.

And I am sorely disappointed in BL's responses.

Morally, it would be a fair and generous thing for mom to allow dad and his family to have some of HER time with the children while they are with her parents. I encourage her to do so if it can be worked out without drama.

Legally, she has no obligation whatsoever to give dad any of HER time...particularly since dad's has expressed the intention of taking the children and keeping them the whole time.

And no, its simply untrue that dad can show up with the police and that they will force the grandparents to turn over the children to dad. In the unlikely event that dad decides to be that much of a jerk, mom should give the grandparents a copy of the orders outlining dad's reintroduction schedule and any documentation that she can showing that dad's summer visitation is already scheduled.

I honestly am shaking my head over the responses on this thread. Here is a mom who is actually spending money to make dad's scheduled time with the children more comfortable for everyone...for a dad who has been deliberately awol from the children's lives for a long time, and people here are STILL treating her like the bad guy.

Once again, my opinion would be exactly the same if the genders were reversed.

 

[BL]

I am not necessarily picking on you but choosing to quote your post...but I am annoyed with this thread...and annoyed with your response.

Mom clearly stated that she would be willing for dad to spend some time with the children while they are there. She clearly stated that last summer she allowed the paternal gps to spend some time with the children.

Dad clearly stated that he was annoyed that his mother didn't get 1/2 of the children's time the last time they were there, and he clearly stated that he intended to take ALL of the children's time this time.

And I am sorely disappointed in BL's responses.

Morally, it would be a fair and generous thing for mom to allow dad and his family to have some of HER time with the children while they are with her parents. I encourage her to do so if it can be worked out without drama.

Legally, she has no obligation whatsoever to give dad any of HER time...particularly since dad's has expressed the intention of taking the children and keeping them the whole time.

And no, its simply untrue that dad can show up with the police and that they will force the grandparents to turn over the children to dad. In the unlikely event that dad decides to be that much of a jerk, mom should give the grandparents a copy of the orders outlining dad's reintroduction schedule and any documentation that she can showing that dad's summer visitation is already scheduled.

I honestly am shaking my head over the responses on this thread. Here is a mom who is actually spending money to make dad's scheduled time with the children more comfortable for everyone...for a dad who has been deliberately awol from the children's lives for a long time, and people here are STILL treating her like the bad guy.

Once again, my opinion would be exactly the same if the genders were reversed.

Perhaps you should read my legal and moral advice again .

You basically state what I stated .

No it all to you ? Not hardly .

I also hate pulling teeth .

In the court of law you must put the facts and your request in front of the court .Posters here should learn a lesson by it .

If posters here think they are treated harshly ,wait until the walk in front of a no nonsence Judge.

 

[InfantCustody]

I am not necessarily picking on you but choosing to quote your post...but I am annoyed with this thread...and annoyed with your response.

Mom clearly stated that she would be willing for dad to spend some time with the children while they are there. She clearly stated that last summer she allowed the paternal gps to spend some time with the children.

Dad clearly stated that he was annoyed that his mother didn't get 1/2 of the children's time the last time they were there, and he clearly stated that he intended to take ALL of the children's time this time.

And I am sorely disappointed in BL's responses.

Morally, it would be a fair and generous thing for mom to allow dad and his family to have some of HER time with the children while they are with her parents. I encourage her to do so if it can be worked out without drama.

Legally, she has no obligation whatsoever to give dad any of HER time...particularly since dad's has expressed the intention of taking the children and keeping them the whole time.

And no, its simply untrue that dad can show up with the police and that they will force the grandparents to turn over the children to dad. In the unlikely event that dad decides to be that much of a jerk, mom should give the grandparents a copy of the orders outlining dad's reintroduction schedule and any documentation that she can showing that dad's summer visitation is already scheduled.

I honestly am shaking my head over the responses on this thread. Here is a mom who is actually spending money to make dad's scheduled time with the children more comfortable for everyone...for a dad who has been deliberately awol from the children's lives for a long time, and people here are STILL treating her like the bad guy.

Once again, my opinion would be exactly the same if the genders were reversed.

Perhaps I took it wrong, but how I read her last post is that she would NOT be willing for dad to spend some time with the children while they are there. And while I think Dad addressed it like a horses rear, I think she should let them see his family while they are local to the same state. She said "We would have been willing to entertain..." So, it sounds like she is saying no they won't see Dad or his family AT ALL. Not that she legally HAS to allow it, but it would be nice.

If I took that wrong, or misread something, I would certainly apologize for my response. I don't think Mom should give up all of her time, or even half of the time they are there, but if she offered Dad the second to last day it would solve both problems. The children still benefit from seeing their paternal grandparents, but Dad can't steal all the time for spite.

 

[mistoffolees]

I am not necessarily picking on you but choosing to quote your post...but I am annoyed with this thread...and annoyed with your response.

Mom clearly stated that she would be willing for dad to spend some time with the children while they are there. She clearly stated that last summer she allowed the paternal gps to spend some time with the children.

Yes, but she's playing power games. Look at her first post:
"Like I said in my first post, we would have worked something out for him to visit if he'd approached it differently. "

So she says she has no objection to the visit. She says she's doing everything she can to foster a relationship.

But when push comes to shove, she wants to deny visitation because she doesn't like the way he asked?

Can you say 'hypocrite'?

 

[NCMomof5]

My main concern here was that if he did call the police, they would allow him to take the kids and my mom would have spent a bunch of money for no visit. It sounds like the police probably would not get involved, and if they did, having a copy of the current order would be helpful?

The suggestion of having him get them on the Wdnesday before I get there is a good one, and my mom says that would be fine with her, and I have emailed him the suggestion. That way I could pick them up Friday evening when I get into town, and we would be able to attend the family wedding we are planning to.

I think that some of the bad feelings towards me stem from the fact that my ex is in the military. I understand that people respect his decision to serve the country, but his service has not prevented him from seeing the kids the whole time he has chosen not to. Also just because one chooses to serve, it doesn't make them a great person. I have witnessed plenty of soldiers in my time as a military spouse that were crappy human beings. My ex is in the army. He is also an E-4 with going on 12 years in service. I think that says a lot about his charachter right there. lol

 

[BL]

Yes, but she's playing power games. Look at her first post:
"Like I said in my first post, we would have worked something out for him to visit if he'd approached it differently. "

So she says she has no objection to the visit. She says she's doing everything she can to foster a relationship.

But when push comes to shove, she wants to deny visitation because she doesn't like the way he asked?

Can you say 'hypocrite'?

Thank you .

And I stated as a matter of fact of the law of the order(s) she will not be in violation since he originally request a specific period of time in accordance to the mediation agreement/order ,their is a profound animosity between the adults as apposed the children.

No matter what the grandparents relationship to the children involve animosity exist. BTW I stated has no bearing on the ruling of the court .

 

[PQN]

The suggestion of having him get them on the Wdnesday before I get there is a good one, and my mom says that would be fine with her, and I have emailed him the suggestion. That way I could pick them up Friday evening when I get into town, and we would be able to attend the family wedding we are planning to.

Excellent. I hope your ex agrees with this plan. It sounds like a win-win for everyone.

 

[mommyanme]

The bolded is exactly what she has arranged!!!!!! She has arranged for her parents to spend two weeks with the children on HER TIME!!!

You and Misto are telling her that dad has the right to take HER TIME...when dad's visit is already scheduled!

Jeez people, think about what you are telling the posters.

If dad has a schedule he is to follow, then he cannot just take the children on her time, just because they happen to be conveniently in the same location that he will be in...or he conveniently decides to go there while they are there.

OP, I do agree that allowing dad and dad's family to see the children a bit while they are with your parents would be a generous and fair thing to do. However, if dad won't agree with that, then simply tell your parents not to answer the door if dad knocks, or the phone if dad calls.

I would be saying exactly the same thing if the genders were reversed here.

LD Thank You, I was reading this thread and wondering if anyone was reading everything.

NCMom.....It is your time yes and your parents have the right to have their visit on your time. BUT to be the breath of fresh air to this situation and the one that can calm it down, let him pick up the kids towards the end of your parents visit and tell him he needs to bring them home or make sure they are on their flight.

Not only does this defuse the situation but it helps if you ever find yourself back in court, to show that you are willing to facilitate a relationship even under the conditions of revenge by dad. Keep that email and any others he sends, make a folder in your email specifically for what you send and Dad's responses. This will be one of the most valuable assets to you in the long run.

I've had to learn to pick my battles, it's been a slow process for me to realize this but I know eventually I will end up back in court and if you want to show maturity and cooperation you have to decide what's important and what you can just document and let go for the time being. I currently have a good example but noticed dad's "gf already posted on this site about it, but I chose not to engage, it's just more useless drama, that in the long run will come out better for me and kiddo.

 

[neopandora]

Yes, but she's playing power games. Look at her first post:
"Like I said in my first post, we would have worked something out for him to visit if he'd approached it differently. "

So she says she has no objection to the visit. She says she's doing everything she can to foster a relationship.

But when push comes to shove, she wants to deny visitation because she doesn't like the way he asked?

Can you say 'hypocrite'?

I don't mean to sound hard on OP because it sounds contentious on both sides, but I remember the other two threads and I believe Misto is right.

Being a soldier may or may not make him a good person but OP chose to have 3 children with a soldier who tended to be stationed outside the U.S. or deployed. She chose to have children (or at least some of their children) during war time. I do believe when this gets back to Court (which I firmly believe it will if one parent doesn't facilitate better) that the Judge is going to hear all these problems in their totality and summarily decide to give Dad the benefit of the doubt because his occupation and situation hasn't changed only Mom's attitude toward having children with a soldier.

I would be curious to know how many times a year the children physically see the maternal grandparents. I surely hope for OP that they see them in person every couple of months because to say a career soldier Father needs an introduction period in the state where the children reside but that for grandparents that they rarely see Mom will put them on a plane to another state for 2 weeks is going to smack of control.

 

[gr8rn]

I believe that Dad has just as much animosity as Mom. I agree that the grandparents should share time. I agree that if Dad needs a reintroduction period, so should the grandparents, in fairness. I agree that Mom has been accomodating, but could be more accomodating if she agrees to give Dad time in Ohio.

As one who has had to deal with a very unreasonable and unapproachable ex, I have found that there are ways to work with someone, even if they are unreasonable and unapproachable. Mom needs to learn how to coparent and get along. Take his reintroduction visit: she worked with him to benefit the children. She needs to keep doing that.

Apparently by next year he will be back to standard visitation. So, maybe this year he has his reintroduction, mom gets to send kids to Ohio with her mother, but she really should work out at least a couple of days for Dad. She apparently has discussed this and that is astep in the right direction.

As for next year, she should plan to send Kids for their visit for twice as long. Half the time to her parents, half to his parents. It would really go a long way to show these kids that both sides of the family are important. It shows Dad that Mom really is not trying to keep the kids away. Happy families all around.

And don't forget to thank your ex for his service to his country.

 

[CJane]

Ya know, I really get irritated with some of the canned responses here.

I have 5 weeks of summer time this year because we don't have our normal 12 week summer due to snow days.

The girls will spend 1 of those weeks w/my Mom in my home town. There is NO WAY the courts would back my ex up if he showed up at Mom's house and demanded that she turn the kids over to him. NO WAY.

He sent the kids - with their StepMom - to Wisconsin for a week a couple of years ago. He flew up later and met them, but they spent a significant portion of their time with just her on vacation. The court would NOT have backed me up had I denied that time/shown up and demanded the return of the children.

If they were at summer camp and one of us showed up and demanded the kids? Yes, the CAMP would have to release the kids, but the court would NOT be happy with either one of us.

If Dad showed up at this grandparent's house and demanded the kids? Mom would likely only have to ask the court nicely for him to have his overbearing and selfish azz handed to him.

The kids are visiting family on MOM'S ordered time. That is her RIGHT and he does NOT have the right to interfere with that. Not morally and not legally. He will have his ORDERED summer visit, no one is trying to take that from him. But she is NOT obligated to offer him "extra" time - nor offer time to HIS parents.

 

[TheGeekess]

Ya know, I really get irritated with some of the canned responses here.

I have 5 weeks of summer time this year because we don't have our normal 12 week summer due to snow days.

The girls will spend 1 of those weeks w/my Mom in my home town. There is NO WAY the courts would back my ex up if he showed up at Mom's house and demanded that she turn the kids over to him. NO WAY.

He sent the kids - with their StepMom - to Wisconsin for a week a couple of years ago. He flew up later and met them, but they spent a significant portion of their time with just her on vacation. The court would NOT have backed me up had I denied that time/shown up and demanded the return of the children.

If they were at summer camp and one of us showed up and demanded the kids? Yes, the CAMP would have to release the kids, but the court would NOT be happy with either one of us.

If Dad showed up at this grandparent's house and demanded the kids? Mom would likely only have to ask the court nicely for him to have his overbearing and selfish azz handed to him.

The kids are visiting family on MOM'S ordered time. That is her RIGHT and he does NOT have the right to interfere with that. Not morally and not legally. He will have his ORDERED summer visit, no one is trying to take that from him. But she is NOT obligated to offer him "extra" time - nor offer time to HIS parents.

Cosign. And if Dad is supposed to go through a reintroduction period and hasn't yet, I'd tell him to pound sand.