How long can they do this?

[seniorjudge]

how is that different? I said medical bills and state tax garnishment and that is EXACTLY what I meant and EXACTLY what they do!!!!!!!!! I didnt say anything different. I sorry you did not believe me

I do believe you that hospital bills paid by the government for someone can be repaid by latching on to that person's tax refunds.

But if I go to a hospital and run up a bill and I get no government assistance, then the hospital cannot latch on to my tax refunds.

Big difference.

 

[Ladynred]

SJ, did you even READ what I posted, or the links to the program ? In Greenville County, and other SC counties THEY CAN AND DO grab state tax refunds, until the debt to the hospital is PAID. The Set off Debt Collection Act is what enforces this is not LIMITED to gov't agencies. This has been going on for more than 10 years, it's not a new program. There is a dispute process in place and if the debtor didn't avail him/herself of that process, then it's probably too late to challenge it.

 

[seniorjudge]

SJ, did you even READ what I posted, or the links to the program ? In Greenville County, and other SC counties THEY CAN AND DO grab state tax refunds, until the debt to the hospital is PAID. The Set off Debt Collection Act is what enforces this is not LIMITED to gov't agencies. This has been going on for more than 10 years, it's not a new program. There is a dispute process in place and if the debtor didn't avail him/herself of that process, then it's probably too late to challenge it.

Sure I read it! That's what caused my comments.


TITLE 12. TAXATION

CHAPTER 56. SETOFF DEBT COLLECTION ACT

SECTION 12-56-10. Short title. [SC ST SEC 12-56-10]

This chapter may be cited as the "Setoff Debt Collection Act".

SECTION 12-56-20. Definitions. [SC ST SEC 12-56-20]

As used in this chapter:

(1) "Claimant agency" means a state agency, board, committee, commission, public institution of higher learning, political subdivision, or other governmental or quasi-governmental entity of any state or the United States. It includes the South Carolina Student Loan Corporation, housing authorities established pursuant to Articles 5, 7, and 9 of Chapter 3 of Title 31 and the Internal Revenue Service, and the United States Department of Education. It also includes a private institution of higher learning for the purpose of collecting debts related to default on authorized educational loans made pursuant to Chapter 111, 113, or 115 of Title 59. "Political subdivision" includes the Municipal Association of South Carolina and the South Carolina Association of Counties when these organizations submit claims on behalf of a county or local governmental or quasi-governmental entity. A political subdivision who submits a claim through an association is a claimant agency for the purpose of the notice and appeal provisions and other requirements of this chapter.

(2) "Department" means the South Carolina Department of Revenue.

(3) "Debtor" means a person having a delinquent debt or account with a claimant agency which has not been adjusted, satisfied, or set aside by court order, or discharged in bankruptcy.

(4) "Delinquent debt" means a sum due and owing a claimant agency, including collection costs, court costs, fines, penalties, and interest which have accrued through contract, subrogation, tort, operation of law, or other legal theory regardless of whether there is an outstanding judgment for that sum which is legally collectible and for which a collection effort has been or is being made. It does not include sums owed to county hospitals when the hospital and the debtor have entered into a written payment agreement and the debtor is current in meeting the obligations of the agreement. "Delinquent debt" also includes any fine, penalty, cost, fee, assessment, surcharge, service charge, restitution, or other amount imposed by a court or as a direct consequence of a final court order which is received by or payable to the clerk of the appropriate court or treasurer of the entity where the court is located.

(5) "Refund" means any individual or corporate South Carolina income tax refund payable. This term also includes a refund belonging to a debtor resulting from the filing of a joint income tax return.

SECTION 12-56-30. Collection of debt; information to be given by claimant agency; information to be given by department to claimant agency. [SC ST SEC 12-56-30]

(A) The collection remedy under this chapter is in addition to any other remedy available by law.

(B) Claimant agencies may submit for collection under the procedure established by this chapter all delinquent debts which they are owed.

(C) All claimant agencies, whenever possible, shall obtain the full name, social security number, address, and any other identifying information, required by regulations promulgated by the department for implementation of this chapter, from any person for whom the agencies provide any service or transact any business and who the claimant agencies can foresee may become a debtor under the terms of this chapter.

(D) Upon request from a claimant agency, the department shall furnish the claimant agency the home address, corrected Social Security number or additional Social Security number of any taxpayer whose name has been submitted to the department for collection of a delinquent debt.

SECTION 12-56-40. Choice of claimant agency as to use of or participation in setoff program. [SC ST SEC 12-56-40]

If the claimant agency determines that the administrative cost of utilizing this chapter is prohibitive, it may choose not to participate in the setoff program, or it may choose to participate only in cases of delinquent debts above an amount it determines appropriate.

SECTION 12-56-50. Department to assist in collection of account or debt by setoff of any refunds due to debtor. [SC ST SEC 12-56-50]

Subject to the limitations contained in this chapter, the department, upon request, shall render assistance in the collection of any delinquent account or debt owing to any claimant agency by setting off any refunds due the debtor from the department by the sum certified by the claimant agency as delinquent debt.

SECTION 12-56-60. Notification by claimant agency; refund determinations; department liability. [SC ST SEC 12-56-60]

(A) A claimant agency seeking to attempt collection of a delinquent debt through setoff shall notify the department in writing and supply information the department determines necessary to identify the debtor whose refund is sought to be set off. A request for setoff may be made only after the claimant agency has notified the debtor of its intention to cause the debtor's refund to be set off not less than thirty days before the claimant agency's request to the department. The claimant agency promptly shall notify the debtor when the liability out of which the setoff arises is satisfied. The claimant agency promptly shall notify the department of a reduction in the delinquent debt.

(B) Upon receiving the certification of the claimant agency of the amount of the delinquent debt, the department shall determine if the debtor is due a refund. If the debtor is due a refund of more than a tolerance amount as determined by the department, the department shall set off the delinquent debt against the amount of the refund. The department may retain an amount not to exceed twenty-five dollars of each refund set off to defray its administrative expenses, and that amount may be added to the debt. Apportionment is not required in the case of a refund resulting from filing a joint return. A person has no property right or property interest in a refund until all amounts due the State and claimant agencies are paid. The department shall consider a delinquent debt and debtor list provided by a claimant agency as correct and the department is not liable for a wrongful or improper setoff.

SECTION 12-56-62. Notice of intention to set off debt; form, delivery and presumption. [SC ST SEC 12-56-62]

The notice of intention to set off must be given by mailing the notice, with postage prepaid, addressed to the debtor at the address provided to the claimant agency when the debt was incurred or at the debtor's last known address. The giving of the notice by mail is complete upon the expiration of thirty days after deposit of the notice in the mail. A certification by the claimant agency that the notice has been sent is presumptive proof that the requirements as to notice are met, even if the notice actually has not been received by the debtor. The notice must include a statement of appeal procedures available to the debtor, substantially as follows:

"According to our records, you owe the (claimant agency) a debt in the amount of (amount of the debt), plus interest, if applicable, for (type of debt). You are hereby notified of the (claimant agency's) intention to submit this debt to the South Carolina Department of Revenue to be set off against your individual income tax refunds until the debt is paid in full. Pursuant to the Setoff Debt Collection Act, this amount, plus all costs, will be deducted from your South Carolina individual income tax refunds unless you file a written protest within thirty days of the date of this notice. If you file a joint return with your spouse, this amount will be deducted from the total joint refunds without regard to which spouse incurred the debt or actually withheld the taxes. The protest must contain the following information:

(1) your name;

(2) your address;

(3) your social security number;

(4) the type of debt in dispute; and

(5) a detailed statement of all the reasons you disagree with or dispute the debt.

The original written protest must be mailed to the (claimant agency) at the following address:

(address of the entity requesting the setoff)".

etc.

 

[Ladynred]

It isn't just hospital bills paid by the gov't FOR someone on a gov't program. Perhaps you missed this little nugget ??

South Carolina counties are collecting delinquent emergency medical services debts, magistrate and family court fines, hospital debts, as well as other fees owed to the counties through SCAC's Setoff Debt Collection Program. The Association has been assisting the counties with collecting these debts since 1992

and..

SCAC now has 81 counties, hospitals, and special purpose districts submitting debts totaling almost $325 million.

GHS is NOT a private hosptial system:

Greenville Hospital System is a not-for-profit academic health organization committed to medical excellence through research and education and is accredited by the Joint Commission of Accreditation of Hospital Organizations (JCAHO). Our five campuses provide integrated healthcare to communities across Greenville County and beyond through a tertiary referral and education center, community hospitals, a long term acute care hospital, nursing home, outpatient facilities and wellness centers.

Bottom line, if you owe a debt to a hospital in SC, unless it's a 100% PRIVATE hospital, they can and do use this set off debt collection program to get paid.

 

[TigerD]

Bottom line, if you owe a debt to a hospital in SC, unless it's a 100% PRIVATE hospital, they can and do use this set off debt collection program to get paid.

With everything that LNR has posted, I given this a bit of thought. My sole question is: So what?

Garnishing of tax returns should be allowed for every kind of debt.


DC

 

[ecmst12]

With a judgement, sure. But without one?

 

[longsally111]

Now i think you are getting it. Point in case, I gave birth to a child and was charged over 7000.00 for the uncomplicared delivery of one child. A HIGHLY INFLATED AMOUNT!@!!. Insurance paid all but 800.00 of it. I set up a payment plan with the hospital and after 3 months, they sent me to collections anyway!!!! I was told that this was standard procedure if it took longer than 3 months to pay the debt.

They then filed with the state to take my tax returns ( no judgement ) and up until now, nothing has happenned as I never get a refund. This year, my refund totaled up to 55.00. They took it to apply to the bill from 2000. This is what brought up my original question about how long they can do this for. A judgement has a 10 year limit. I wonder about this one.

 

[TigerD]

With a judgement, sure. But without one?

As much as I would like to defer to the creditor, yes, a judgment should be necessary. I recall some pesky little thing about being deprived of life, liberty or property without due process.

DC

 

[ecmst12]

7000 for an uncomplicated delivery is pretty normal. You work in a hospital and you don't know this? Besides, how have you not finished paying off the bill after EIGHT YEARS? Even if you paid $10 a month, it would have been paid off by now!

 

[seniorjudge]

It isn't just hospital bills paid by the gov't FOR someone on a gov't program. Perhaps you missed this little nugget ??


and..


GHS is NOT a private hosptial system:


Bottom line, if you owe a debt to a hospital in SC, unless it's a 100% PRIVATE hospital, they can and do use this set off debt collection program to get paid.

I thought you were smarter than this but I guess not.

You still have not made the connection between a debt owed to a government and one to a private entity.

Even the stuff you posted supports my position.

 

[longsally111]

ecmst, I am an ER nurse, I dont do L&D and hope I NEVER have to deliver ( lol). I would probably faint. And in the year 2000, that WAS a high amount. I will have you know that 2nd child was born in 2003, also an uncomplicated delivery and the bill was only 5000.00. Anyway, I was paying on the bill when they sent me to collections ( was going to take more than 3 months). Once that happenned, it was on my credit to stay for 7 years. If you want me to pay and I am paying, they should not do that. So, at the rate they are going, they will get their money in about 20 years. Guess they should have let me continue the 100.00 a month, huh****************************

 

[ecmst12]

Something in collections that is "pays as agreed" and never late still looks a lot better then something that you just stopped paying on entirely. It may not have even showed on your credit report as being in collections right away, that might just have been the department within the hospital billing system that was handling it. By trying to punish the hospital for a practice you disagreed with, you ended up hurting yourself more. You received the services, you should pay the bill.

I worked for a health insurance company in 2000 and I can tell you that amount is normal. Also, the $800 that was your copay has nothing to do with the hospital - that's the amount YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY directed them to bill you. It might not even be related to the amount the hospital billed to or was paid by your insurance, it might just be a flat copay that you would have to pay whether the bill was $1000 or $10000. Without seeing your plan I couldn't say for sure. But you are lucky they even agreed to let you have your 2nd child there, with an outstanding bill. Basically, you screwed yourself by your choices MUCH worse then you hurt the hospital, who didn't even have any say in how much you were billed.

 

[Ladynred]

You still have not made the connection between a debt owed to a government and one to a private entity.

Don't be absurd, of COURSE I know the difference - and the fact is GHS is NOT a 'private entity' - I reiterated that already !

This is what brought up my original question about how long they can do this for.

As quoted from the State's program site, they can do it until the bill is paid in full. Why not just talk to the hospital billing office, find out the total that's still owed and pay it off ??

It is S.O.P. for hospitals to only carry unpaid balances for no more than 90 days. I work for a large healthcare company, and 90 days is the limit.

 

[seniorjudge]

Show me a statute, rule, law, whatever, that says if a private individual who is not getting government aid does business with a private company and does not pay his bill, may have his wages garnished or his income tax refund intercepted.

 

[longsally111]

one point....this is not a private hospital!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even if it was, they cannot legally deny you service!!!!!