• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

How to notify court of noncompliance

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

Status
Not open for further replies.

LdiJ

Senior Member
The court sort of expects parents to be adults and figure out ways to compromise. OFW apparently no longer works for Dad, and he has offered alternatives. A court would kind of expect you to work together. After 8+ years? You should not require the court to do this.

At 11 & 12? Yeah, I think they can manage to go a week without talking to Mommy. Really. I would expect that, if you make that an issue in court? Expect it to be scaled down to one call/week, unless initiated by the child otherwise.

Things really do change as kids get older. And it's up to you what hill is worth dying on. So.... you do you.
I am going to disagree about OFW. It is a useful tool that keeps both sides honest and playing nice. There is no reason why it should ever "not work" for one of the parents. Remember, it doesn't end up in orders or in agreements unless one or both of the parties have a tendency to not play nice. Generally, the person who doesn't want it is the person who doesn't want to play nice.
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I agree with LdiJ on this one. They both agreed to use OFW. OFW even has an app that includes messaging. It takes no more effort to send a message through OFW than it does to send it by text or by Whatsapp. On top of that, the OP's even willing to pay for his subscription to the service. There's really no downside to using it. Even in the most amicable of situations, I'd highly recommend it.
 

empressj

Member
I am going to disagree about OFW. It is a useful tool that keeps both sides honest and playing nice. There is no reason why it should ever "not work" for one of the parents. Remember, it doesn't end up in orders or in agreements unless one or both of the parties have a tendency to not play nice. Generally, the person who doesn't want it is the person who doesn't want to play nice.
Thanks to those who agree with OFW. There are reasons that I did not bring up that necessitated OFW. It didn't seem necessary in my original post to give you every detail of our long history. None of those issues really bear weight in the current question that I posted which was, how can I notify the court of his non-compliance and possible relocation or modification of our parenting plan.

The truth of the matter is, if I have to come up with another 1,000 to make OFW happen for the rest of our parenting relationship, I will do it. Dad already agreed to use OFW and whatever other options he suggested I don't agree with. My reasons to keep OFW should be given just as much weight as his reasons to not keep it.

He can choose to take it to court if he wanted, but I would suspect that at mediation, his attorney advised him that a court would agree that OFW was necessary and that is why he went along with it.

The reason he wants to be communicating outside of OFW is that he has to keep his word and commitments on OFW. Also, OFW keeps track of summer visitation being offered to him (those 60 days that we mentioned) and him not making any sort of arrangements to retrieve his kids. OFW also keeps track when either parent becomes abusive or argumentative with the other parent. Those things can sit in OFW, and be retrieved if the other parent ever needed to protect themselves. OFW isn't just for ME. It would protect him if I were out of line.

And OFW is there for the father if he wanted to change the calling schedule. He would simply send me a message in OFW and say he wanted to change the calling schedule. If I didn't respond, or I was rude when we went back to court, or mediation, that record would be there, too.

YEARS of parenting history is recorded in OFW...and it is there to protect both parents AND the kids from unnecessary arguments. As I said earlier today, until recently, it has been a Godsend, at least for me. Prior to OFW, every communication felt like it had the potential to become a bomb that would cause stress and anxiety, not to mention confusion. Miscommunications happened frequently, which led to arguments. With OFW, it is easy to look back at what was said, and remind the other parent if they misinterpreted. It is easy to swap weekends, and there is a record of who asked for the change. Everything was made SIMPLE! I don't understand why MORE parents don't use it.

For all of you who think that it is excessive to call my kids 3x a week? They're MY kids, not yours. He agreed to it, so until he asks to have it changed on OFW, that is how it stays. He is also well within his rights to petition the court for changes if he sees fit.

At this point in time, he hasn't even seen his kids for 65+ days in a pandemic with no immediate plans to retrieve them. I have the kids. So I'm not currently needing to call them 3x a week. Many, many words wasted on a topic that to me, is currently a non-issue.

Thanks again for your help and comments.

This will be my last response re: the phone calls.
 

empressj

Member
OP, as an attorney I agree with T. I strongly disagree with LD. She knows nothing and tries to pretend she doesn't have a mom bias. You are digging yourself a hole as looking to be controlling.
Again, my kids attended camp when they were with him. I wrote them letters and did not expect phone calls on the schedule while they were there.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Yeah, yeah, we all know why OFW is a generally good idea. And most of us know all about difficult parenting relationships after divorce.
 

t74

Member
OP, YOU will not let the kids have phones. What would you do if DAD got them for the kids? Are you planning to get the court to order they can only what YOU approve of? (I suggest theat each parent get the child a phone to use on their own time when phones are an issue since some parents stalk the other via tracking apps on the kid's phones.)

Look back. I told you long ago to keep a record and file for contempt if warranted. You lost my support when you complained about calls during camping trips with dad but not summer sleepover camp.

It sounds like YOU plan to dictate the time of dad's 60 days of visitation. How was that determine? Don't you think it should be dad's choice of time as long as it doesn't interfere with school

You both are going to have to get creative when the kids get to high school and have activities that practice or otherwise have events during the summer You had better start figuring it out now rather than later. Dad can certainly insist on his time. I hate to think the kids are the adults in the room with the two of you.

If you have residential custody and the court order does not require him to get permission to move, he can do so without your blessing. You on the other hand are unlikely to be able to move without permission unless it is in the order. If you have a valid reason to move, follow the procedure to do so for your specific situation, If you do not know what it is, talk to an attorney.

Since you plan to move, why don't you follow dad and move to his new location? Since yu are unklikely to do so, make the travel between their two homes as ppainless as possible - like direct flights between the two closest airports.Despite what you say, your attitude on the forum indicates you do not want dad in their lives. Don't be so insecure. Go to counseling. Kids can love two parents and other extended family members at the same time. Dads are as important as moms.

A very wise person whose name aI do not know said you give your kids "roots and wings". You have to keep the babies from falling out of the nest, but you also need to teach them how to fly. You are going to be vry lonely when the kids leave home if you do not have a life of your own; if you do not have a significant other, get out on the dating scene again. You kids are old enough to spend 3 or 4 hours alone at home. You will be happier and so will they. Stop smothering them especially when they are with their dad.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
OP, YOU will not let the kids have phones. What would you do if DAD got them for the kids? Are you planning to get the court to order they can only what YOU approve of? (I suggest theat each parent get the child a phone to use on their own time when phones are an issue since some parents stalk the other via tracking apps on the kid's phones.)[/quote}

This is ridiculous. Her choice not to provide her children with phones at their ages is not abnormal.

Look back. I told you long ago to keep a record and file for contempt if warranted. You lost my support when you complained about calls during camping trips with dad but not summer sleepover camp.
weird.

It sounds like YOU plan to dictate the time of dad's 60 days of visitation. How was that determine? Don't you think it should be dad's choice of time as long as it doesn't interfere with school
That statement is a flat out lie on your part.

You both are going to have to get creative when the kids get to high school and have activities that practice or otherwise have events during the summer You had better start figuring it out now rather than later. Dad can certainly insist on his time. I hate to think the kids are the adults in the room with the two of you.
I have re-read this entire thread and I have no idea where that statement even comes from.

If you have residential custody and the court order does not require him to get permission to move, he can do so without your blessing. You on the other hand are unlikely to be able to move without permission unless it is in the order. If you have a valid reason to move, follow the procedure to do so for your specific situation, If you do not know what it is, talk to an attorney.

Since you plan to move, why don't you follow dad and move to his new location? Since yu are unklikely to do so, make the travel between their two homes as ppainless as possible - like direct flights between the two closest airports.Despite what you say, your attitude on the forum indicates you do not want dad in their lives. Don't be so insecure. Go to counseling. Kids can love two parents and other extended family members at the same time. Dads are as important as moms.
There is absolutely nothing in this thread to indicate that she does not want dad in the children's lives,

A very wise person whose name aI do not know said you give your kids "roots and wings". You have to keep the babies from falling out of the nest, but you also need to teach them how to fly. You are going to be vry lonely when the kids leave home if you do not have a life of your own; if you do not have a significant other, get out on the dating scene again. You kids are old enough to spend 3 or 4 hours alone at home. You will be happier and so will they. Stop smothering them especially when they are with their dad.
I think that you are completely out of line on this thread and I hope that the OP completely ignores you.
 

t74

Member
If dad wants kids to have phones, unless the court has ordered otherwise, he can certainly provide them. Mom does not have to let them use them while they are in her custody unless the court orders otherwise.

Mom declared categorically that the kids will not have phones. There was nothing about discussing it with dad,The parents need to get on the same page.

Requiring kids to stop what they are doing on their vacation 3 times a week to call or take a call from mom is absurd. Complaining about not replying to OFW when on vacation is also absurd especially if it can be assumed that they are out of range of WiFi or when in an activity requiring a parent's full attention.

So we can agree to disagree LdiJ again. However, I maintain that OP needs to read her postts from the point of view of dad or the judge.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Okay. Went back to the beginning and reread P's posts w/o the "noise" of responses (my own included).

For starters, as the apparent non-custodial parent, it is quite likely that he is not required to get your or the court's permission to relocate out of state. It is up to him if he wants to modify the parenting time schedule or leave it as-is, utilizing whatever time he can/desires, as long as it follows the ordered schedule. (in other words, if"his" w/es are first and third, he can take one, both or neither. What he can't do is unilaterally decide to take second or fourth...)

However, when/if you choose to relocate, you WILL need either his consent or the court's. That's just the way it works when you're the custodial parent. With him already out of state, it shouldn't be difficult to get the court's permission. However, be aware that your current husband's (reading between lines with all of the mentions of we, jobs (plural), etc.) new job in a different state will be largely irrelevant.

In terms of OFW, you are certainly free to take his non-compliance back to the court. However, the court will have a fair bit of leeway in how to address the matter. Yes, they could order him to re-up his membership. But I suspect that resolution will be more along the lines of approving an alternate method (possibly with an admonishment that those communications can be brought before the court if he doesn't play nice) OR that you will be ordered to pay for both of you (since you are the one who wants it). While I understand that it's what you both agreed to, things change in 8+ years and the court will take that under consideration. HOWEVER, I would not take OFW, the phone calls, etc. back to court as stand-alone issues. Nor will they go far in terms of securing permission to relocate - his not using his parenting time could well carry some weight in that regard.

What *I* would be more interested in securing is an order regarding transportation for him exercising his time. Given that he has created the distance, he should be responsible for arranging/paying for it. Now. That could change when you relocate. If your move adds to his current distance/expense, you could (and should) expect to cover any difference and/or split the costs. The other stuff could then be add-ons in your filing.
 

empressj

Member
//What *I* would be more interested in securing is an order regarding transportation for him exercising his time. Given that he has created the distance, he should be responsible for arranging/paying for it. Now. That could change when you relocate. If your move adds to his current distance/expense, you could (and should) expect to cover any difference and/or split the costs. The other stuff could then be add-ons in your filing.//

Our intended move would be halfway between where we are now and where he is.

He is currently 20 hours by car away from us.

Our intended move would be 10 hours away from him by car. I have suggested to him that we can meet halfway and keep the same schedule that he has now. MINUS every other weekend visits that he is not using anyway.

Kids would be made available for weekends at his request, and I suggested reviewing their school schedules and him selecting the long weekends so that he could fly them in or drive, etc. I also offered to give him every spring break, which alternates now, because the schedule was made assuming he lived nearby, which he doesn't now.

He was discussing it with me on OFW, and then let his subscription lapse.

Without his approval, I will simply petition the court. I understand that he is not required to file for relocation, although he should have made new/alternate arrangements to better suit the childrens needs and the distance. They miss him and don't understand why he's just disappeared.

He had them for his half of Christmas break, then left. Came back to have them for spring break, dropped them off and left. That routine can easily be maintained from a new location.

With respect to transportation, our current order does state that he must provide for their transportation to and from where they spend their summer. We would need something to clarify the rest of the transportation if we were to move. Again, I would be moving closer, so, it would make it EASIER on him, not harder.

I am not going to pursue the OFW thing in court. If it comes down to it, I will pay for it. But I am waiting for now, because as soon as I pay it once, I will be responsible for paying for it until it's done.

Thanks.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Making this a new post so you don't have to read if you choose not to. But, having dealt with a none-to-easy ex myself (frighteningly, many here know my story, despite my being divorced going on !22! years), I wanted to veer a bit off-topic. Take whatever makes sense to you (if anything) and feel free to disregard/discard the rest.

My kids (and yes, they are *my* kids at this point) were ~4&6 when we split. And it was a very acrimonious custody fight. I really don't think because he wanted them so badly, but (a) he felt it would look bad to his colleagues otherwise and (b) he knew it would destroy me. Yeah, he's that guy. During our separation, we had every other week, and I would literally have to go to a different payphone each week he had them to talk to the kids. OFW wasn't a "thing" back then, so I had reams of emails printed out. LOL Long story short, we ended up settling, but he insisted I had to relocate - with the kids - to my home state. Ooooookay.

ANY way... that was a long-winded way of saying that I really do know what it's like to have a difficult ex. I decided early on that I would weigh any issues coming up on a scale of "is this a hill I'm ready to die on?" and otherwise think only of what (a) made it easier on the kids and (b) what effect my actions could have on their relationship with their Dad. Oh, and (c) what did I want my relationship with my adult children to look like? And (c) is really the crucial one, IMO. You will have a much longer relationship with the adult than the child. I likely rolled over more than necessary, but in the end? Those kids always knew that I was on their side.

Just keep your eyes on the "prize" - your adult relationship with them - and let the rest go.

/stealth's advice. ;)
 

empressj

Member
...also, I'm going to be REAL here...because I know this man, and none of you know me or him.

The fact that he hasn't re-upped OFW, in my opinion, has more to do with the idea that he really doesn't WANT the kids right now. When he's ready to get them, he will "get" the money (he borrows his mother's credit card) and renew his subscription. Then he will get the kids plane tickets and they will fly to see him and they will all have a great summer.

Right now, having the kids is TOUGH. They would be in the house with him all day long. He would be responsible for feeding them and keeping them entertained when most things that they like to do are shut down.

It's been really tough on me! So I get it. I would VERY MUCH love a break from them.

This is just my guess, but I've been doing this for many years with him, and I'm pretty good at anticipating his fluctuations.

It also may help all of you to know that this man is unemployed, has no desire to ever be employed. Any money he has comes from his mother. She is a lovely lady and she treats the kids well when they are there. But she tires of giving him money, so, every so often, the well dries up and he cannot buy things.

I am not at all worried that dad will buy my kid's phones. That's funny. They are expensive and require a monthly payment that is MORE than OFW, which he cannot afford. He has not once bought our children a pair of shoes, never paid for a doctor's appointment, hasn't taken them to the dentist, or paid for his portion of it.

Before dropping my kids off and leaving town this last time, he pushed his current wife in the Walmart parking lot and she fell. She scraped up her arms and legs. This was all in front of our kids. He is not a wonderful dude. He is mentally ill.

We went to counseling for a long time. Me and the boys. He even came a few times. The counselor knew exactly what was going on, and had compassion on him. She wanted to help him. He didn't like that, so he told the boys that if they went to counseling anymore, that there would be hell to pay. I'm sure you can imagine that they've seen enough to know that they would pay dearly...or someone would if they went against Dad.

Dad has recently gone through a "change of heart" where he has apologized through tears to both the children and myself (he apologized to me on OFW, even), so I'm sure he means it. But, mental illness is a B****, and it is often not as simple as having a heart change.

This is the Dad I chose for my kids, so we are working with it. But for some of you to attack ME as if I have a problem...well, it is wrong and unfair. Period.

A little about me: I am married. My husband is 32 years retired ex-military. He is a wonderful, gentle man. He is patient with the boys and cares for them deeply. I have another daughter, who is 19 and autistic. Her father died unexpectedly on 4/30 and she was there. She found him and had to give him CPR and call 911.

The boys love their sister and our little family has been through so much.

I was a mess when I met and married my boy's dad. Our relationship was terrible, and I take responsibility for my part. I was immature and thought we would both "grow up" together. That didn't happen. He was abusive both emotionally and physically and I finally did call the police and have him arrested, which he still blames me for. He tells the children I "made" him hit me and that I called the police to punish him.

Regardless, he begged for forgiveness and went into counseling. We both did. We were remarried (that means we divorced once and were remarried). The second time ended worse than the first. He had to have supervised visitation (I didn't ask for that, it was all done by the courts once the arrest was made) for a while, then graduated to unsupervised.

His relationship with his kids vacillates based on his mental state. He can be very depressed and will cocoon for weeks in his bed watching movies. He will not ask for the kids or communicate with them during these times. Then he may go through a better stage where he is a great dad. He also goes through abusive stages as well. He is now remarried and his wife is a lovely lady. She treats my kids well. But he is abusing her, and my kids spend quite a bit of time worried that she will leave him. They are not wrong. I worry about that, too.

I received 3 years of private counseling after I left my ex-husband. I paid for that myself. I worked multiple jobs to support my kids. I sometimes had THREE jobs at a time. Their father didn't pay child support, and I was working for an attorney who agreed to take him to court for contempt so that maybe I could get some child support from him. (It had built up over the years).

During that trial, I really found out who he was because I had access to his bank records. He was gambling, spending money on dating websites, even donating money (large amounts) to charities. I still don't know where he was getting the money from because he hasn't worked this whole time. (He was employed when we were married, and it was a bone of contention because I required him to work to remain married to me)

During the times that I was eating PBJ to survive, working three jobs, he gambled away thousands of dollars while refusing to pay child support. His right? Sure...but also proof that he is very sick and needs help. When we mediated, I gave up ALL child support (not like it would have been much since he is unemployed) in exchange for custody of the boys during the week so that I could help them with their school. He refuses to do homework during his parenting time. He believes that it is unfair. So that exchange was made.

I have stayed where I am (locally) because of my daughter's father (who just died), and because of the boy's father (who no longer lives here). There is no reason NOT to move now. My husband has applied for a job at a private school that my father attended and graduated from. If he were to be accepted there, our children would have greatly reduced tuition, providing them an excellent opportunity to improve their education.

I am not a clingy parent. Please. Dad. Come. Take. The. Kids.
Seriously. I have things to do this summer. I am a full-time author, and I write TWO books each summer while they are gone. If they don't go, I won't be able to write...or I will have to write at night while they are sleeping, which is a difficult schedule to maintain.

My autistic daughter recently was accepted into the Astronomy program at a school that is also not in our area. So REALLY no reason to stay here. My brother lives close to where we want to relocate. It just makes sense to move and be closer to the boy's dad, closer to my brother, closer to my disabled daughter's new school, and for the boys to be in an excellent private school that offers them a great opportunity.

Another issue, that you wouldn't know because I didn't tell you is that the boy's father is very PHYSICALLY ill. He likely weighs over 400 pounds, has diabetes and when he does speak to the boys, is basically bed-bound. Last year, he took them to Universal Studios for 10 days (his mom paid for it), and he told them that would be the last time he did something like that because it almost killed him. He has arthritis, asthma, high blood pressure, and who knows what else. The boys are constantly afraid that if they don't talk to him for a few days, he is going to die without them knowing. So getting them closer to him, and offering MORE time with him in his mother's home, seems a good option to me. He is also less likely to be abusive in front of his mother, so in my opinion, it is a win-win.

Of course, none of this I can say in court. The minute I tell this story, I am painted as an angry, bitter ex-wife, and he is treated as a victim. That is fine. That is the world we live in. It happens even here.

There are two victims here and they are my kids. I will do whatever I can to make their lives better, and I think I do a pretty good job.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
You really seemed focused on the point that dad hasn't seen the kids in two months...in a pandemic. Have you considered that it might be better for the kids to not further the possibilities for exposure to the virus?
I am getting the sense that you are bitter that dad doesn't give you a "break" from the kids.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top