Is the will invalid?

[Zigner]

1) I understand that the plural of anecdote is not data, and that WV, where my mom passed away, is not CA.

2) The above is exactly how my mom did her Will because she was too cheap to go to an attorney to have it done properly. The court said it was no good without the two witness signatures, and thus she died intestate. This is why I tell people it's well worth the cost to have a Will drafted by an attorney.

California REQUIRES two witnesses except for holographic (hand-written) wills.

 

[LdiJ]

Hello FlyingRon. The estate is worth approximately $15,000, and the debt that could be counted against the estate is about $16,000. My wife and I would prefer not to go through probate though, as the furniture is valuable to us for sentimental reasons.

Does the furniture have any value beyond sentimentality? You can't just take the furniture if its worth 15k, for example. It would belong to the estate and the estate would have to pay off the creditors (proportionally) with any proceeds that could be obtained by selling the furniture.

 

[FlyingRon]

Based on this, it does not sound like the will is valid. You should run it by a local attorney just to make sure, but I'm pretty darned sure about it.

It's not self-proved, but it may be determined in the court to be valid.

 

[TruthFire]

Does the furniture have any value beyond sentimentality? You can't just take the furniture if its worth 15k, for example. It would belong to the estate and the estate would have to pay off the creditors (proportionally) with any proceeds that could be obtained by selling the furniture.

The furniture might barely add up to 2k. Do you think that I could buy the furniture from the estate to avoid it being liquidated?

 

[LdiJ]

The furniture might barely add up to 2k. Do you think that I could buy the furniture from the estate to avoid it being liquidated?

That would certainly be acceptable.

 

[TrustUser]

just curious - how would you go about establishing a fair market price for the furniture ?

 

[LdiJ]

just curious - how would you go about establishing a fair market price for the furniture ?

There are all kinds of people out there who do appraisals for estates. It should not be difficult at all.

 

[t74]

just curious - how would you go about establishing a fair market price for the furniture ?

If the items are not antiques and mass market, a web search might find the item recently sold. I did so on an item 30 years old with known manufacturer and found it at prices ranging fro $21 to $125 so it pays to be thorough.

 

[TrustUser]

There are all kinds of people out there who do appraisals for estates. It should not be difficult at all.

if i am a creditor, and there is not enough money to pay my bill, i dont think i would be too happy about the beneficiary getting an appraisal, and then buying the goods.

 

[LdiJ]

if i am a creditor, and there is not enough money to pay my bill, i dont think i would be too happy about the beneficiary getting an appraisal, and then buying the goods.

Why? Do you somehow think it would be easier for the creditor to get repaid in some other fashion?

 

[t74]

A family member is more likely to purchase something which has little cash value but much in sentimental value.

 

[TrustUser]

Why? Do you somehow think it would be easier for the creditor to get repaid in some other fashion?

i think my hesitation is somewhat obvious, isnt it ? i think a creditor would think it was a lot more fair, if the creditor at least picked out the appraiser.

as far as the comment about a family member more likely to purchase something which has little cash value, but much sentimental value is putting the horse before the cart. who says the something has little cash value ? that is the whole point of the appraisal - to ascertain a true worth.

this is part of what killed the real estate industry during all those bogus loans. there were bogus appraisals that went right along with it. today there are a lot of regulations that help keep that appraisal process somewhat random. something that the seller can not influence.

 

[TrustUser]

if i am the creditor who is owed 16K, and the beneficiary is telling me that i am only gonna get 2K back, from the sale of this furniture that he is gonna buy - i tell him that i will take possession of the furniture myself. and will find out for myself how much it is worth.

 

[Taxing Matters]

if i am the creditor who is owed 16K, and the beneficiary is telling me that i am only gonna get 2K back, from the sale of this furniture that he is gonna buy - i tell him that i will take possession of the furniture myself. and will find out for myself how much it is worth.

You could not just take possession of the furniture. You would need a judgment and perfected lien prior to the death of the decedent and then go through the process to attach the furniture. Without a judgment, you'd be left to file a motion with the probate court to force the estate to auction off the furniture. And then the estate would distribute the funds based on the priority of claims set out in the applicable state law.

 

[TrustUser]

oh well - there goes that idea - LOL. but i think you guys now understand my complaint !! as a creditor, i dont know if i like the idea of an auction. it is a crap shoot on how many people turn up.