Is the will invalid?

[TrustUser]

just another case where the legal law is unfair. if the creditor can not be paid off, he should automatically have the option of acquiring the assets. i have had the unfortunate experience of part of a bankruptcy hearing. as a creditor, i got almost next to nothing. the court system was all highly oriented towards saving the owner.

 

[Zigner]

just another case where the legal law is unfair. if the creditor can not be paid off, he should automatically have the option of acquiring the assets. i have had the unfortunate experience of part of a bankruptcy hearing. as a creditor, i got almost next to nothing. the court system was all highly oriented towards saving the owner.

I don't believe it's unfair. You aren't due the asset, you're due money (unless you have a contract or a lien that states otherwise).

 

[Taxing Matters]

oh well - there goes that idea - LOL. but i think you guys now understand my complaint !! as a creditor, i dont know if i like the idea of an auction. it is a crap shoot on how many people turn up.

An auction done through a reputable auction firm is often the best way to get maximum value for stuff like household items. Thrift shop values tend to be significantly lower. When I used to conduct auctions for the things I seized while at the IRS I was surprised at first to learn that my auctions of stuff that I considered largely junk — common household items and office furniture, etc., that generated some of the biggest crowds and would, on the whole, produce bids for things more than I would have paid at a thrift store. People get carried away with auctions when they want something, and for small items often are willing to overpay a bit just to get it from that other guy.

 

[Taxing Matters]

just another case where the legal law is unfair. if the creditor can not be paid off, he should automatically have the option of acquiring the assets.

If you were the only priority creditor, you are owed more than what all the estate assets together are worth, and the estate administrative expenses have already been provided for then you could seek an arrangement with the executor in which you take the assets and agree that by doing so the executor's obligation to you is discharged. But for household goods in my experience both that the IRS and handling estates for clients is that you are unlikely to get more cash by some other way than you would auctioning off the stuff. But under circumstances described, you could try to sell it some other way if you wanted. If there are other creditors that have claims to compete with yours then that doesn't work.

The law in this regard is not unfair. It does seek to get the creditors what they can get from the estate. The problem is, and you see it bankruptcy too, is that you cannot get blood from a stone. When the assets are not worth much the creditors walk away largely empty handed. That's not the fault of the law.

 

[TrustUser]

hi tm, mine was a special case, that i really didnt understand. the owner of the property mgr was supposedly placing funds into a trust account. and it turns out that it was in some sort of trust account. she committed suicide, cuz she was caught robbing peter to pay paul. had the court system not been involved, we would have recovered most of our monies. but the bk court dragged it out forever, until there was nothing left. and then the case was settled. believe me, i have good reasons to hate lawyers, judges, and the whole damn kit and caboodle. you are probably an honest lawyer, but you are an exception, not a rule. another reason i only go for trusts. i am not giving the legal system an inch. if i did, they would take a mile !!

i was there at one of the hearings. the judge kept ruling in favor of the defendant. with "that question is not part of this hearing, etc." any question that would have led to what happened and us getting our money back, was always ruled improper. after sitting thru the first half hour, i left - i had already heard enough to know that i was never getting any of my money back. and i didnt. the only asset that was sold was a used vw for a couple thousand dollars. but i didnt even get my share of that !!

 

[Taxing Matters]

you are probably an honest lawyer, but you are an exception, not a rule.

I disagree. In my experience most lawyers and judges are honest and seek to do a good job. I know many such lawyers and judges. Not all of them are good, of course. In any profession or occupation you some who are dishonest or just plain incompetent.

another reason i only go for trusts. i am not giving the legal system an inch. if i did, they would take a mile !!

Trusts are subject to legal attack much as wills are. The main difference is that the trustee of a trust is free to act without the kind of court oversight that probate estates get which means that the trusts can usually be distributed faster than the assets of an estate. But whether trust or will, the keys to avoiding legal problems are (1) ensuring the document is well drafted and (2) picking an honest and competent personal representative or trustee.

 

[TrustUser]

trusts may be subject to attack, but the percentages are way, way less

avoidance of probate is probably the number one reason why people get trusts

 

[Taxing Matters]

avoidance of probate is probably the number one reason why people get trusts

It is the main reason that people do revocable living trusts, especially in states like California. But the main reasons for choosing the trusts have much more to do with saving the cost and time of probate than it does trying to avoid a challenge to the will/trust document. Again, how well a trust or will withstands a challenge has much more do with how well they are drafted than anything else. If you do a will correctly it can stand up to a challenge just as well a trust can withstand a challenge.

 

[TruthFire]

just curious - how would you go about establishing a fair market price for the furniture ?

Hello TrustUser!
I'm planning on having an appraiser from my home owner's insurance come in to give me a fair market value.

 

[TrustUser]

while i still think that trusts do a better job, i will grant you that a well written document is a big plus, in either case

 

[TrustUser]

Hello TrustUser!
I'm planning on having an appraiser from my home owner's insurance come in to give me a fair market value.

it will probably work out for you. i was just making some statements about how i think a creditor would feel about the situation. good luck !!

 

[Taxing Matters]

while i still think that trusts do a better job, i will grant you that a well written document is a big plus, in either case

For a number of clients a revocable living trust is indeed the better way to go. But not for all of them. A lot depends on the laws of the state in which they live and the details of their likely estate. In my state I help a lot of my clients come up simple estate plans that avoid probate for most of their assets without the need for a trust or a will. There are lots of estate planning options out there, and there is no one size fits all solution that is best for everyone. You've determined that for your needs a revocable living trust is the way to go. Just realize that while that works well for you, it might not work as well for someone else.

 

[LdiJ]

oh well - there goes that idea - LOL. but i think you guys now understand my complaint !! as a creditor, i dont know if i like the idea of an auction. it is a crap shoot on how many people turn up.

Nevertheless, that is how forced sales work. Its always and auction and the highest bidder walks away with the goods.

 

[Zigner]

Hello TrustUser!
I'm planning on having an appraiser from my home owner's insurance come in to give me a fair market value.

If this a side deal with the appraiser? I ask because that's not the role of appraisers that your homeowner's insurance provides...