Marital Status

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

It would be cleaner to file for divorce. I assume that they filed joint tax returns over the years.

 

[mistoffolees]

So any thoughts on the potential, if any, ramifications of living together for 25 years without being married?? Weird question, but it all just seems so WRONG in my head that I'm thinking that there's a downside somewhere that I'm just not sure of.

BTW, I did contact the clerk in the VA county that the license was obtained. The clerk faxed a copy of the letter notifying the couple that the ceremony performed out of state was not done so by a VA officiator and therefore, not legal, and they needed to come in to have one of the Marriage Commissioners sign off on the certificate of marriage (i.e. official record).

Wait a second - who are you and what is the issue you're trying to resolve?

 

[RemitAdvice]

Then they are NOT married and have a real mess unless VA recognizes common law marriage which I cannot remember off the top of my head.

ETA: Which it does not after a quick internet check. Which means that they are not married. Which means that if they have partaken of various benefits for married couples (insurance, joint tax filings, distribution of property) that they have severe legal issues. They need to consult legal counsel. Putative spouse would NOT apply as they were made aware that they are NOT married by the state.

That is exactly what I was afraid of. I'm having trouble finding someone local who will just answer a few quick questions over the phone to give me an idea of what kind of mess they're in.

Do you think LdiJ would know about the tax thing? I think, but am not absolutely certain, that for at least 15 years they have filed taxes separately as he is a business owner... But I'm sure that means married filing separate.
Dude, how much trouble are they in????

Furthermore, putative spouse doesn't apply because of the letter, right?

 

[RemitAdvice]

Wait a second - who are you and what is the issue you're trying to resolve?

It's my folks. They seem to think that finding out they're not really 'married' is the best news EVER. I, OTOH, know better than to believe that something too good to be true is anything but.

I just want some arguments to convince them that an attorney is needed and they shouldn't just run around willy nilly like it never happened.

Plus, where's this leave me? Does it even matter??

 

[RemitAdvice]

It would be cleaner to file for divorce. I assume that they filed joint tax returns over the years.

Can you file for divorce if you're not married????

 

[Ohiogal]

Can you file for divorce if you're not married????

No they can't get a divorce if they are not married. And their problem is that they are NOT married. They had the information that they were not married because of the letter to the clerk. Because of that they cannot claim putative spouse upon the MISTAKEN belief that they were married -- that is MY understanding but a VA attorney might disagree. They need an attorney (each of them) due to the possible criminal penalties they could face pertaining to taxes, fraud and what have you that could spring out of the woodwork. And it could be possible that a VA attorney could see a way for them to get out of this mess WITHOUT facing criminal and other sanctions.

 

[RemitAdvice]

No they can't get a divorce if they are not married. And their problem is that they are NOT married. They had the information that they were not married because of the letter to the clerk. Because of that they cannot claim putative spouse upon the MISTAKEN belief that they were married -- that is MY understanding but a VA attorney might disagree. They need an attorney (each of them) due to the possible criminal penalties they could face pertaining to taxes, fraud and what have you that could spring out of the woodwork. And it could be possible that a VA attorney could see a way for them to get out of this mess WITHOUT facing criminal and other sanctions.

Bet.

That should set them back on the path.

You interested in hearing what the attorney has to say? I'm sure I'll be hearing both sides...

 

[mistoffolees]

Bet.

That should set them back on the path.

You interested in hearing what the attorney has to say? I'm sure I'll be hearing both sides...

Yes, please come back and tell us.

 

[Ohiogal]

Yes, please come back and tell us.

Heck yeah. Because everything I have found on putative spouse states that the individual needs to have a solid belief that they were married. Which couldn't happen in this case. But if I am wrong come back and correct me. If a VA attorney says there is a way around this, let me know.

 

[mistoffolees]

Heck yeah. Because everything I have found on putative spouse states that the individual needs to have a solid belief that they were married. Which couldn't happen in this case. But if I am wrong come back and correct me. If a VA attorney says there is a way around this, let me know.

I'm not quite so sure that putative spouse won't help. Although they did get a notice that the marriage wasn't registered in VA, they could possibly argue that the thought that the marriage in CA was still valid. I'm not sure that argument would carry much weight, but the fact that they stayed married and didn't do anything about it for 25 years lends some credence to the idea that they really did think they were married.

There may be some other loopholes, too, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[RemitAdvice]

I also keep going back to the fact that there was obviously a name change. And I know now to have your name changed due to marriage/divorce you have to present a certified copy of your marriage record.

Same with your license and the DMV.

I guess it was the same way 25 years ago (?!?)

I've asked that a search be performed at the Division of Vital Stats to see if a marriage record can be found. In the interim, I have contacted my own divorce attorney via email to see if he would be willing to do some checking and research just for fun.

And I can only imagine that my involvement is nil, right? Meaning there are no ramifications rippling my way, right?

 

[LdiJ]

That is exactly what I was afraid of. I'm having trouble finding someone local who will just answer a few quick questions over the phone to give me an idea of what kind of mess they're in.

Do you think LdiJ would know about the tax thing? I think, but am not absolutely certain, that for at least 15 years they have filed taxes separately as he is a business owner... But I'm sure that means married filing separate.
Dude, how much trouble are they in????

Furthermore, putative spouse doesn't apply because of the letter, right?

They would not be in any trouble on a tax level IF they filed married filing separate. Penalties come with inaccurately or fraudulently UNDERSTATING your tax, not overstating your tax, and married filing separately would have resulted in an overstatement of tax.

 

[LdiJ]

I also keep going back to the fact that there was obviously a name change. And I know now to have your name changed due to marriage/divorce you have to present a certified copy of your marriage record.

Same with your license and the DMV.

I guess it was the same way 25 years ago (?!?)

I've asked that a search be performed at the Division of Vital Stats to see if a marriage record can be found. In the interim, I have contacted my own divorce attorney via email to see if he would be willing to do some checking and research just for fun.

And I can only imagine that my involvement is nil, right? Meaning there are no ramifications rippling my way, right?

There really is a chance that their CA marriage was legally valid even if they couldn't use their VA marriage license. Some research needs to be done there as well.

 

[Ohiogal]

There really is a chance that their CA marriage was legally valid even if they couldn't use their VA marriage license. Some research needs to be done there as well.

Only if they had a CA license.

 

[LdiJ]

Only if they had a CA license.

I don't disagree. However in the hustle and bustle of a wedding things can get done that people might not remember 25 years later.