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modification of paternity agreement due to unstable parent

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KC_Guy

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri

Preamble:
I'll try to make this short and only include pertinent information, but I could write a novel to discuss what has lead to the current circumstances. First, let me say I am the step-father of this child. I have two step-daughters with two dads. The oldest is 12 yrs and her father is very easy to get along with and the parenting plan is effective with no issues. The youngest is 4 yrs old and the relationship with the father and paternal grandmother is not perfect. My wife and I also have a 1 yr old boy of our own with another boy due in May of this year.

Quick list of events:
1. My wife and the father of the child split up in 2007. Verbal agreements were made in regards to the custody, visitation, and support.
2. After struggles with the verbal agreement, my wife let's the father know that she will be filing for custody and child support.
3. Days later we have Missouri Department of Family Services come to our house to say that reports had been filed alleging the child was being sexually abused at our house. The allegations were filed by the paternal grandmother.
4. A couple days later my wife hires an attorney and files an order for paternity, custody and child support.
5. Missouri DFS investigates the case and deems that the allegations are without merit and were based around concerns of the outcome of a child custody case.
6. Three weeks later while the daughter is staying with the paternal grandmother during the father's time, we get a call from Kansas Social Services to say the child has been taken into SRS custody and gives temp custody to the paternal grandmother due to her making allegations of sexual abuse while the child was in Missouri at our house and that the father was neglecting the child in kansas. (The father and paternal grandmother live in Kansas) We're in the Kansas City Metro area.
7. Child remains with grandmother for 3 months while we go through initial hearings regarding the abuse case and the court decides to return the child to the parents homes, but keep the case open until certain conditions were met like participating in classes around "getting along with your ex" and attending mediation, and obtaining a custody order from platte county, Missouri where my wife had filed the paternity matter.
8. Paternal Grandmother makes 3 additional abuse allegations while the case is open and the KS SRS deems them all to be without merit. (allegations included that we had threatened to wash the childs mouth out with soap if she said a cuss word, and the paternal grandmother stated she was concerned that we were going to physically abuse her)
9. In the Missouri case my wife's attorney asks for a Guardian Ad Litem to be assigned. The GAL interview myself, my wife, the father, and the paternal grandmother and her attorney.
10. The GAL lets the court know that he recommends that the mother get residential parent, joint legal and physical custody between the parents, but also includes that the paternal grandmother get visitation during the father's time which included staying with grandmother every other friday from 8am to 5pm.
11. My wife and I are told that Kansas will not close the case until we get the parenting plan signed by a judge in Missouri, however my wife does not agree that the grandmother should be given specific time with the child in the agreement. Her lawyer recommends that we just agree to it and then ask for a modification later.
12. My wife agrees, she gets residential parent and they split the visitation between the parents with my wife getting one extra day every other week (this was already the verbally agreed schedule for the prior years).
13. Judge in Missouri signs order and Kansas asks all parties if they agree to close the case, however paternal grandmother refuses to sign. Then the GAL in the kansas case starts requesting mental health and medical information regarding issues with the grandmother and she then changes her mind and agrees. Kansas closes the case after 10 months of being involved.

Fast forward to today:
My wife and I were married in November of 2008 and moved into a house together with our children. Since then the father has moved to three different houses for short periods of time including moving back in with his mother for a month or so between each new house. My wife and I have lived together at our home for almost 2 and 1/y years now. The father has also moved in two different girlfriends at his houses, the first one ended when they had a domestic dispute and she basically assualted him while they were drunk. The second had two small boys which my step-daughter got to spend time with while she was with her dad. Then that relationship ended and she moved out with the boys. Now, the father calls us today to say that he is being evicted from his apartment and will be moving back in with his mother. He knows that my wife doesn't think that it is in the childs best interest to be around the grandmother especially while the father is living with her. This is because the grandmother and father do not get along and they typically get into an argument and put the child in the middle of it, in terms of the grandmother making threats to try to take the child if they can't agree on whatever they are fighting about, etc... The father also stated that he would be willing to "find another place to stay" instead of going to his mothers if my wife allows him to claim the daughter on his taxes this year since he is broke. Additionaly, the father has for the last 5 months, asked my wife to keep the daughter one additional day every week. This means the father gets only 2 and 1/2 days one week and 3 1/2 days the second week. However he has also has been asking my wife to keep the daughter more lately and has gone the last 30 days with only having his daughter for 2 days, and those were days that she was required to see her grandmother, so he actually didn't have her in his custody.

OK, there's lot more I could say, but I feel like that's the minimum to start with and you can ask questions to fill in the blanks if I've left something out.

Our question is: What do we do next that would be best for this child and for our family?
We can A) just allow things to play out with no intervention or B) we can request a modification to the agreement to have the child here 5 weekdays and the father have her every other weekend. C) we could file a contempt motions due to instances where we've documented the child saying things relating to the custody case and the relationship issues between the father, my wife, and the paternal grandmother which is not allowed per the parenting plan.

Our main concern is that the paternal grandmother will do anything and I mean anything to prevent losing any time with the child or giving my wife more time. Since she is listed in the visitation section of the parenting plan, I assume she'd be notified if we requested to change it. At which point my wife is concerned that grandmother will begin making new allegations to complicate the process. My wife thinks that the daughter having a relationship with the paternal grandmother is important, but the grandmother is definately not working in the best interests of the father, my wife, or the child, but instead she is thinking of her best interests which she has stated multiple times that she just wants custody of the child. My wife believes that the grandmother is mainly concerned that the father will lose visitation because he cannot establish a stable residence and has mutple DUI convictions and known alcohol abuse issues.


What are the potential outcomes of this scenario?
 
Last edited:


Silverplum

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri

Preamble:
I'll try to make this short and only include pertinent information, but I could write a novel to discuss what has lead to the current circumstances. First, let me say I am the step-father of this child. I have two step-daughters with two dads.
MAN, am I glad to see YOU!!

You prove a point: that it's not just stepmothers who interfere...stepfathers do it ALSO! ;)

And another point: Men CAN type. (We all knew it, we just hear a lot of lies about it. ;))

KC_Guy said:
The oldest is 12 yrs and her father is very easy to get along with and the parenting plan is effective with no issues. The youngest is 4 yrs old and the relationship with the father and paternal grandmother is not perfect. My wife and I also have a 1 yr old boy of our own with another boy due in May of this year.

Quick list of events:
1. My wife and the father of the child split up in 2007. Verbal agreements were made in regards to the custody, visitation, and support.
2. After struggles with the verbal agreement, my wife let's the father know that she will be filing for custody and child support.
3. Days later we have Missouri Department of Family Services come to our house to say that reports had been filed alleging the child was being sexually abused at our house. The allegations were filed by the paternal grandmother.
4. A couple days later my wife hires an attorney and files an order for paternity, custody and child support.
5. Missouri DFS investigates the case and deems that the allegations are without merit and were based around concerns of the outcome of a child custody case.
6. Three weeks later while the daughter is staying with the paternal grandmother during the father's time, we get a call from Kansas Social Services to say the child has been taken into SRS custody and gives temp custody to the paternal grandmother due to her making allegations of sexual abuse while the child was in Missouri at our house and that the father was neglecting the child in kansas. (The father and paternal grandmother live in Kansas) We're in the Kansas City Metro area.
7. Child remains with grandmother for 3 months while we go through initial hearings regarding the abuse case and the court decides to return the child to the parents homes, but keep the case open until certain conditions were met like participating in classes around "getting along with your ex" and attending mediation, and obtaining a custody order from platte county, Missouri where my wife had filed the paternity matter.
8. Paternal Grandmother makes 3 additional abuse allegations while the case is open and the KS SRS deems them all to be without merit. (allegations included that we had threatened to wash the childs mouth out with soap if she said a cuss word, and the paternal grandmother stated she was concerned that we were going to physically abuse her)
9. In the Missouri case my wife's attorney asks for a Guardian Ad Litem to be assigned. The GAL interview myself, my wife, the father, and the paternal grandmother and her attorney.
10. The GAL lets the court know that he recommends that the mother get residential parent, joint legal and physical custody between the parents, but also includes that the paternal grandmother get visitation during the father's time which included staying with grandmother every other friday from 8am to 5pm.
11. My wife and I are told that Kansas will not close the case until we get the parenting plan signed by a judge in Missouri, however my wife does not agree that the grandmother should be given specific time with the child in the agreement. Her lawyer recommends that we just agree to it and then ask for a modification later.
12. My wife agrees, she gets residential parent and they split the visitation between the parents with my wife getting one extra day every other week (this was already the verbally agreed schedule for the prior years).
13. Judge in Missouri signs order and Kansas asks all parties if they agree to close the case, however paternal grandmother refuses to sign. Then the GAL in the kansas case starts requesting mental health and medical information regarding issues with the grandmother and she then changes her mind and agrees. Kansas closes the case after 10 months of being involved.

Fast forward to today:
My wife and I were married in November of 2008 and moved into a house together with our children. Since then the father has moved to three different houses for short periods of time including moving back in with his mother for a month or so between each new house. My wife and I have lived together at our home for almost 2 and 1/y years now. The father has also moved in two different girlfriends at his houses, the first one ended when they had a domestic dispute and she basically assualted him while they were drunk. The second had two small boys which my step-daughter got to spend time with while she was with her dad. Then that relationship ended and she moved out with the boys. Now, the father calls us today to say that he is being evicted from his apartment and will be moving back in with his mother. He knows that my wife doesn't think that it is in the childs best interest to be around the grandmother especially while the father is living with her. This is because the grandmother and father do not get along and they typically get into an argument and put the child in the middle of it, in terms of the grandmother making threats to try to take the child if they can't agree on whatever they are fighting about, etc... The father also stated that he would be willing to "find another place to stay" instead of going to his mothers if my wife allows him to claim the daughter on his taxes this year since he is broke. Additionaly, the father has for the last 5 months, asked my wife to keep the daughter one additional day every week. This means the father gets only 2 and 1/2 days one week and 3 1/2 days the second week. However he has also has been asking us to keep her and has gone the last 30 days with only having his daughter for 2 days, and those were days that she was required to see her grandmother, so he actually didn't have her in his custody.

OK, there's lot more I could say, but I feel like that's the minimum to start with and you can ask questions to fill in the blanks if I've left something out.

Our question is: What do we do next that would be best for this child and for our family?
We can A) just allow things to play out with no intervention or B) we can request a modification to the agreement to have the child here 5 weekdays and the father have her every other weekend. C) we could request full custody, etc..

Our main concern is that the paternal grandmother will do anything and I mean anything to prevent losing any time with the child or giving us more time. Since she is listed in the visitation section of the parenting plan, I assume she'd be notified if we requested to change it. At which point my wife is concerned that grandmother will begin making new allegations to complicate the process.

What are the potential outcomes of this scenario?
That your WIFE and the DAD/S will work out their own problems without interference from new spouses/etc.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri

Preamble:
I'll try to make this short and only include pertinent information, but I could write a novel to discuss what has lead to the current circumstances. First, let me say I am the step-father of this child. I have two step-daughters with two dads. The oldest is 12 yrs and her father is very easy to get along with and the parenting plan is effective with no issues. The youngest is 4 yrs old and the relationship with the father and paternal grandmother is not perfect. My wife and I also have a 1 yr old boy of our own with another boy due in May of this year.

Quick list of events:
1. My wife and the father of the child split up in 2007. Verbal agreements were made in regards to the custody, visitation, and support.
2. After struggles with the verbal agreement, my wife let's the father know that she will be filing for custody and child support.
3. Days later we have Missouri Department of Family Services come to our house to say that reports had been filed alleging the child was being sexually abused at our house. The allegations were filed by the paternal grandmother.
4. A couple days later my wife hires an attorney and files an order for paternity, custody and child support.
5. Missouri DFS investigates the case and deems that the allegations are without merit and were based around concerns of the outcome of a child custody case.
6. Three weeks later while the daughter is staying with the paternal grandmother during the father's time, we get a call from Kansas Social Services to say the child has been taken into SRS custody and gives temp custody to the paternal grandmother due to her making allegations of sexual abuse while the child was in Missouri at our house and that the father was neglecting the child in kansas. (The father and paternal grandmother live in Kansas) We're in the Kansas City Metro area.
7. Child remains with grandmother for 3 months while we go through initial hearings regarding the abuse case and the court decides to return the child to the parents homes, but keep the case open until certain conditions were met like participating in classes around "getting along with your ex" and attending mediation, and obtaining a custody order from platte county, Missouri where my wife had filed the paternity matter.
8. Paternal Grandmother makes 3 additional abuse allegations while the case is open and the KS SRS deems them all to be without merit. (allegations included that we had threatened to wash the childs mouth out with soap if she said a cuss word, and the paternal grandmother stated she was concerned that we were going to physically abuse her)
9. In the Missouri case my wife's attorney asks for a Guardian Ad Litem to be assigned. The GAL interview myself, my wife, the father, and the paternal grandmother and her attorney.
10. The GAL lets the court know that he recommends that the mother get residential parent, joint legal and physical custody between the parents, but also includes that the paternal grandmother get visitation during the father's time which included staying with grandmother every other friday from 8am to 5pm.
11. My wife and I are told that Kansas will not close the case until we get the parenting plan signed by a judge in Missouri, however my wife does not agree that the grandmother should be given specific time with the child in the agreement. Her lawyer recommends that we just agree to it and then ask for a modification later.
12. My wife agrees, she gets residential parent and they split the visitation between the parents with my wife getting one extra day every other week (this was already the verbally agreed schedule for the prior years).
13. Judge in Missouri signs order and Kansas asks all parties if they agree to close the case, however paternal grandmother refuses to sign. Then the GAL in the kansas case starts requesting mental health and medical information regarding issues with the grandmother and she then changes her mind and agrees. Kansas closes the case after 10 months of being involved.

Fast forward to today:
My wife and I were married in November of 2008 and moved into a house together with our children. Since then the father has moved to three different houses for short periods of time including moving back in with his mother for a month or so between each new house. My wife and I have lived together at our home for almost 2 and 1/y years now. The father has also moved in two different girlfriends at his houses, the first one ended when they had a domestic dispute and she basically assualted him while they were drunk. The second had two small boys which my step-daughter got to spend time with while she was with her dad. Then that relationship ended and she moved out with the boys. Now, the father calls us today to say that he is being evicted from his apartment and will be moving back in with his mother. He knows that my wife doesn't think that it is in the childs best interest to be around the grandmother especially while the father is living with her. This is because the grandmother and father do not get along and they typically get into an argument and put the child in the middle of it, in terms of the grandmother making threats to try to take the child if they can't agree on whatever they are fighting about, etc... The father also stated that he would be willing to "find another place to stay" instead of going to his mothers if my wife allows him to claim the daughter on his taxes this year since he is broke. Additionaly, the father has for the last 5 months, asked my wife to keep the daughter one additional day every week. This means the father gets only 2 and 1/2 days one week and 3 1/2 days the second week. However he has also has been asking us to keep her and has gone the last 30 days with only having his daughter for 2 days, and those were days that she was required to see her grandmother, so he actually didn't have her in his custody.

OK, there's lot more I could say, but I feel like that's the minimum to start with and you can ask questions to fill in the blanks if I've left something out.
You were doing great...

Our question is: What do we do next that would be best for this child and for our family?
We can A) just allow things to play out with no intervention or B) we can request a modification to the agreement to have the child here 5 weekdays and the father have her every other weekend. C) we could request full custody, etc..

Our main concern is that the paternal grandmother will do anything and I mean anything to prevent losing any time with the child or giving us more time. Since she is listed in the visitation section of the parenting plan, I assume she'd be notified if we requested to change it. At which point my wife is concerned that grandmother will begin making new allegations to complicate the process.

What are the potential outcomes of this scenario?
There is no we. There is no our. This is your wife's fight - not yours.
 

KC_Guy

Junior Member
MAN, am I glad to see YOU!!

You prove a point: that it's not just stepmothers who interfere...stepfathers do it ALSO! ;)

And another point: Men CAN type. (We all knew it, we just hear a lot of lies about it. ;))



That your WIFE and the DAD/S will work out their own problems without interference from new spouses/etc.

I'm confused. Have I done something wrong? (e.g that it's not just stepmother who interfere... step father do it also)

Am I being chastised for trying to help..... ?

Wife is sick with two sick kids and I thought I'd start trying to search for discussion topics for her and the father of the child as they work through this.

Should I, step-father, not listen to whats going on or provide any input? I mean the consequences of the situation can affect my children and the older step daughter.


If my wife posted these questions, would you provide her help then?
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I'm confused. Have I done something wrong? (e.g that it's not just stepmother who interfere... step father do it also)

Am I being chastised for trying to help..... ?

Wife is sick with two sick kids and I thought I'd start trying to search for discussion topics for her and the father of the child as they work through this.

Should I, step-father, not listen to whats going on or provide any input? I mean the consequences of the situation can affect my children and the older step daughter.


If my wife posted these questions, would you provide her help then?
I have to be honest...as I said in my reply...you were doing great right up until the end. It is entirely possible for you to do research, ask questions, etc. But please remember that, in the end, you have no dog in this fight, so to speak. Drop the "we" and "our" statements. This is about MOM, DAD & KIDS (not necessarily in that order.)
 

Antigone*

Senior Member
I'm confused. Have I done something wrong? (e.g that it's not just stepmother who interfere... step father do it also)

Am I being chastised for trying to help..... ?

Wife is sick with two sick kids and I thought I'd start trying to search for discussion topics for her and the father of the child as they work through this.

Should I, step-father, not listen to whats going on or provide any input? I mean the consequences of the situation can affect my children and the older step daughter.


If my wife posted these questions, would you provide her help then?
The two previous posters are much more patient than me. Way too long and TMI to even look for the questions.
 

Isis1

Senior Member
Please have your wife post so we can help her do what SHE wants to do about her issues.

Look, I get it. My husband is a stepfather too. But this is one of those issues he had to learn to stop trying to fix. Just nod your head, let your wife rant, pour her a glass of wine (sparking cider) and rub her toes. Took my husband two years to get the hang of it. But he learned when was needed to fix, and when he was needed to listen.
 

KC_Guy

Junior Member
I didn't intend to violate the TOS here or to "interfere". I just want to help my wife. All I want is to make my wife's and our children's lives better. I'm just really confused by the advice given so far. Can someone clear this up for me on the responses I've received so far? What I can gather is that by asking these questions instead of having my wife ask them, I'm interfering. And, I've used pronouns when I should have used nouns or Proper nouns.


From your responses, I guess I'd settle for having my wife ask the same questions on here herself and finding a book on proper ettiquette for step-fathers.

I'm so confused by the family law community. Everytime I think something's been done to receive positive acknowledgement, it ends in a negative result. I digress.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
I didn't intend to violate the TOS here or to "interfere". I just want to help my wife. All I want is to make my wife's and our children's lives better. I'm just really confused by the advice given so far. Can someone clear this up for me on the responses I've received so far? What I can gather is that by asking these questions instead of having my wife ask them, I'm interfering. And, I've used pronouns when I should have used nouns or Proper nouns.


From your responses, I guess I'd settle for having my wife ask the same questions on here herself and finding a book on proper ettiquette for step-fathers.

I'm so confused by the family law community. Everytime I think something's been done to receive positive acknowledgement, it ends in a negative result. I digress.
https://forum.freeadvice.com/child-custody-visitation-37/newbies-please-read-before-posting-387214.html
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Honestly, I feel for this OP. I don't think he is overstepping, although the way he presented the questions could be misinterpreted as such.

From what I can gather, it seems that you are trying to find out if it would be better to sit back and wait, or to file for some sort of modification as a sort of a "preliminary strike." It's a tough call. It might be a good thing for your wife to have a sit-down with a local family law attorney and present all the facts. Then she can get an informed opinion...
 

KC_Guy

Junior Member
Please have your wife post so we can help her do what SHE wants to do about her issues.

Look, I get it. My husband is a stepfather too. But this is one of those issues he had to learn to stop trying to fix. Just nod your head, let your wife rant, pour her a glass of wine (sparking cider) and rub her toes. Took my husband two years to get the hang of it. But he learned when was needed to fix, and when he was needed to listen.
Wow, this was the first reasonable response. I get it. Listen to my wife's requests for balance and understanding in this confusing situation, but do not attempt try to assist with resolving it. Honestly, that's the default advice for most issues.... :) (listen good, but never try to fix)

My wife is standing here now and will go ahead and work with you all to try to get some advice on her situation, but could you also give her a heads-up on what the accepted position of a step-father is in these matters? Honestly, we're clueless on what role I play. Sounds like a good new thread..

will you excuse my faux pas and please provide your free advice to her?
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
Wow, this was the first reasonable response. I get it. Listen to my wife's requests for balance and understanding in this confusing situation, but do not attempt try to assist with resolving it. Honestly, that's the default advice for most issues.... :) (listen good, but never try to fix)

My wife is standing here now and will go ahead and work with you all to try to get some advice on her situation, but could you also give her a heads-up on what the accepted position of a step-father is in these matters? Honestly, we're clueless on what role I play. Sounds like a good new thread..

will you excuse my faux pas and please provide your free advice to her?
https://forum.freeadvice.com/child-custody-visitation-37/newbies-please-read-before-posting-387214.html
 

KC_Guy

Junior Member
MAN, am I glad to see YOU!!

You prove a point: that it's not just stepmothers who interfere...stepfathers do it ALSO! ;)

And another point: Men CAN type. (We all knew it, we just hear a lot of lies about it. ;))



That your WIFE and the DAD/S will work out their own problems without interference from new spouses/etc.
Silverplum,

I apologize, I did read the Newbies thing first and thought I had done what it had asked in declaring who I was and what relationship I had to the situation. I did however err by using the pronouns.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
Silverplum,

I apologize, I did read the Newbies thing first and thought I had done what it had asked in declaring who I was and what relationship I had to the situation. I did however err by using the pronouns.
I appreciate your attitude. :)

However, we will work only with the PARENTS. This is a legal board.

Further, stepparents tend to be even more biased than parents. It gets in the way of legal info delivery. And, when we deal with stepparents, they get the idea that they actually matter, legally, or that their opinions are of legal worth.
 
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