Municipal Code Is Binding on Electric Utility

[OHRoadwarrior]

I suggest you build a buffer wall of wood or shrubs, if you cannot resolve this issue.

 

[Johnmelissa]

You seem to only want to be told that the utility company is in violation. We of course can't tell you that for sure, nor can we tell you what you can do about it even if they are. I doubt you will be successful in getting the transformer removed or shut down. But good luck.

I have asked a fundamental, general question whether a municipal code applies to and is binding on a state regulated utiltiy within the city limits. I have stated that, per the city attorney in this particular city, utilities are exempt from zoning laws specifically. Without getting too deep in the minutiae, is a municipal code binding on the state regulated utility within the city limits? Since an answer has not been provided and in the absence of any exemptions beyond that of zoning, the municipal code IS applicable to and binding on the state regulated, private electricity utility within the jurisdiction of the municipal code.

 

[Just Blue]

I have asked a fundamental, general question whether a municipal code applies to and is binding on a state regulated utiltiy within the city limits. I have stated that, per the city attorney in this particular city, utilities are exempt from zoning laws specifically. Without getting too deep in the minutiae, is a municipal code binding on the state regulated utility within the city limits? Since an answer has not been provided and in the absence of any exemptions beyond that of zoning, the municipal code IS applicable to and binding on the state regulated, private electricity utility within the jurisdiction of the municipal code.

If you are able to look up and quote the code, then you should, for your city, be able to look up the application of said code.

As you refuse to share the necessary info for the Volunteers to assist you...

 

[CdwJava]

And even if the city CAN enforce the municipal code against the utility, there is no requirement that they do so. And there is no requirement that enforcing it means they have to ask for an immediate change. They could even grant an exemption (assuming the code applies, anyway).

Of course, be careful what you ask for. They may have to take the power in your block off line until they can get the required work done ... provided they CAN make the necessary changes and choose to do so rather than challenge the applicability of the code.

In my casual read of sample muni codes on the subject, I find that the language tends to be very flexible allowing a great deal of leeway on the part of the city administration on the enforcement of noise ordinances especially as they relate to utilities, businesses, etc. If this is really causing you a problem, perhaps you can consider engaging an attorney ... that'll be quite pricey, though - utilities have bucketloads of these guys.

 

[Just Blue]

px hx****************************...

 

[justalayman]

I've got a heck of an idea for you:


call the utility involved and ask them two things:


are they aware their transformer exceeds the levels allowed in the local noise ordinance and


is their transformer operating properly because it appears to be excessively loud.



Not saying it is not operating properly but a loud transformer can be indicative of a problem. An oil cooled transformer (likely to be the type in question) should not emit much sound at all unless it is a very large and heavily loaded transformer.


If it is not repairable, then it may be possible to get the utility to install a sound barrier given the oddly low sound level laws in the area.



If you are not satisfied with the utility company's answers, call the state public service commission and see if they will address the issue.

 

[Johnmelissa]

I've got a heck of an idea for you:


call the utility involved and ask them two things:


are they aware their transformer exceeds the levels allowed in the local noise ordinance and


is their transformer operating properly because it appears to be excessively loud.



Not saying it is not operating properly but a loud transformer can be indicative of a problem. An oil cooled transformer (likely to be the type in question) should not emit much sound at all unless it is a very large and heavily loaded transformer.


If it is not repairable, then it may be possible to get the utility to install a sound barrier given the oddly low sound level laws in the area.



If you are not satisfied with the utility company's answers, call the state public service commission and see if they will address the issue.

Been there done that, won relief twice but relief has not been completely effective and the utility has committed perjury which has obstructed the process, a surprise only to me.

OK. You guys are tons of fun. I asked if a municipal code is applicable to and binding on a utility. I FOUND the answer. Maybe I could get a job here. The CA Constitution provides for the regulation of utilities by the PUC regarding the utilities property, equipment and operations. But the CA Constitution continues the "power" of regulation of "affairs" of the city such as police, sanitation and others. Noise, in this city, comes under the environmental section and that section lists entities which are exempt. The list does not include utilities. Thus, utilities are subject to a municipal code when the noise it generates crosses a property line and the noise may be measured at the property line or at the source, per the code, and I paraphrase in the interests of time. Could I get a job here?

 

[CdwJava]

Since no one "works" here, you can post as you wish.

But, even if the city can cite the utility for a violation of the muni code, they are not required to. Chances are the city would not. You are free to continue the civil process as you wish.

It seems you have a lot of trouble where you live. Neighbor, utilities ... I choose to put up with the neighbor's roosters crowing, and the dogs barking even though they are violations of the muni code. Why? Because the hassles involved fighting with the neighbors just aren't worth the occasional inconvenience.

 

[justalayman]

Been there done that, won relief twice but relief has not been completely effective and the utility has committed perjury which has obstructed the process, a surprise only to me.

OK. You guys are tons of fun. I asked if a municipal code is applicable to and binding on a utility. I FOUND the answer. Maybe I could get a job here. The CA Constitution provides for the regulation of utilities by the PUC regarding the utilities property, equipment and operations. But the CA Constitution continues the "power" of regulation of "affairs" of the city such as police, sanitation and others. Noise, in this city, comes under the environmental section and that section lists entities which are exempt. The list does not include utilities. Thus, utilities are subject to a municipal code when the noise it generates crosses a property line and the noise may be measured at the property line or at the source, per the code, and I paraphrase in the interests of time. Could I get a job here?

come on now, what did I tell you long ago? You simply wanted to continue to lament about the situation.

and there is no "job" here. If you had actually read the terms of service, you would have seen this:

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So, you want a job? Come on board. The pay is non-existent, the hours are great; the only bad part about the "job" is sometimes the "customers" are a bit of a pain in the rump, especially when all they want to do is complain rather than seek info.

 

[Zigner]

Did we ever find out WHAT city this person was talking about? The OP has come on here making assertions about this nebulous municipal code that we can't even review.

 

[FlyingRon]

I have asked a fundamental, general question whether a municipal code applies to and is binding on a state regulated utiltiy within the city limits. I have stated that, per the city attorney in this particular city, utilities are exempt from zoning laws specifically. Without getting too deep in the minutiae, is a municipal code binding on the state regulated utility within the city limits? Since an answer has not been provided and in the absence of any exemptions beyond that of zoning, the municipal code IS applicable to and binding on the state regulated, private electricity utility within the jurisdiction of the municipal code.

And we have fundamentally told you that we can't answer that without details, but our opinion is that your premises are unsound.
Now if you would like to tell us exactly what the municipality involved is or exactly what the ordinance you are asserting actually says along with the rest of the ordinances that give light to the applicability, we could give you a real answer.

You coming here and stating the same thing over and over again and expecting to get a different answer than what we have given you is NOT going to happen.

 

[Johnmelissa]

Since no one "works" here, you can post as you wish.

But, even if the city can cite the utility for a violation of the muni code, they are not required to. Chances are the city would not. You are free to continue the civil process as you wish.

It seems you have a lot of trouble where you live. Neighbor, utilities ... I choose to put up with the neighbor's roosters crowing, and the dogs barking even though they are violations of the muni code. Why? Because the hassles involved fighting with the neighbors just aren't worth the occasional inconvenience.

Carl, as I recall?

I had a little bit of "trouble" in Viet Nam. Would you imply that I am to blame for that too? I think some degree of rain falls into every life. Perhaps not yours. Count your blessings. The transformer was perfectly quiet for 33 years. When the utility changed it, it roared like a thrashing machine. Other residents in the region with t/f's have had the same problem and the utility has replaced many t/f's twice due to noise. The utility changed mine in 2 months of its own volition as it knew it was in violation of muni codes and standards. The next unit was and is louder than the original. Since the utility could not perform the way it did for 33 years and because it generated a noise nuisance, it should have moved the unit to the front parkway where it has installed t/f's since 1975 when it put mine in. The utility NEVER put another t/f in a backyard after 1975 because of noise and increased repair crew access. Obviously, it's cheaper for the utility to not move it so it is refusing and resisting. The case should be decided on merit not cost. The unit was installed initially because they were acceptably quiet. When the replacements became noisy annoyances, when quiet t/f's were no longer available, they should have been moved to the front parkway. I bear the burden for 20 homes; 19 other homes have no backyard t/f, have no nuisance and I have lost the enjoyment of my property. A constant 48dBA tone, 13 feet from my master bedroom, in the rear corner 24/7/365. Would you like that?

But the neighbor/cop just gets better. We NEVER had trouble or filed complaints in this neighborhood for 24 years before this "sworn police officer" moved in. He now has a 40 ft. diesel RV and 8 passenger vehicles on a small city lot. Most of them are old and need restoration. 6 of them have illegal mufflers as they exceed decibel levels. We call it the "Pep Boys" next door. From morning 'til night it's auto repair and loud muffler engine revving. Now I KNOW that you would love that! It's a symphony, right? The real kicker is that this is a "sworn police officer" who "obeys ALL laws" according to the dept. code of ethics. The only thing repeated calls to police and code enforcement have obtained is a reduction in the time he runs the bus diesel motor (for harassment) from an hour and a half to about 25 minutes. We're assaulted by the noise and our house vibrates for only 25 minutes a couple of times a week now, speaking about only the RV that is. Now there is a responsible police officer who enjoys a position of public trust. There is plenty of law to stop the auto repair work and nuisance car noise but we can't get the "brotherhood" to enforce against a member. It's ok though, we bought a second home and will sell here shortly. Incidentally, the neighbor on the other side moved last year because the city and police would do nothing, but he had an extra added bonus; a barking dog on his side of the neighbor/cop's lot. The dog barked and defecated on our lawns incessantly - imagine, a "sworn police officer." Makes you wonder what he was sworn to do. And it no longer surprises me when people say they don't like cops. I think there may have been a price to pay, however. Believe it or not, the son applied for a local police dept. You know who they interview for backgound, the neighbors. The PD he applied for interviewed both of us neighbors. It was incomprehensible that he would engage in endless bad behavior toward his neighbors on both sides, then have his son (the dogs were the son's and he works on the cars) apply for a position with a police dept. How do you think his oral interview and lie detector test went? The PD interviewer got the WHOLE story from both neighbors. The neighborhood will continue to live next to a "Pep Boys" but we'll be gone. We will move soon so the bad behavior of a sworn police officer will have forced two families to move from homes they owned for 3 decades. A sworn police officer with 3 sustained complaints at his dept. and multiple complaints with local code enforcement, animal control and police. What kind of world do we live in, Carl? The Army that I was in would have ripped any stripes off long ago. I can't imagine what his Chief is thinking - he's received letters from this neighborhood and it continues and continues. Actually, I think there are some stability problems. This has persisted for 13 years.
OK, Carl, you take care.

 

[justalayman]

your fight is with your unnamed municipality. It is they who enforce noise ordinances. If they will not, then you have another problem on your hands. You talk like the utility company is the bad guy here but in reality, it is your municipal government. Make them do what they are supposed to do.

Since the utility could not perform the way it did for 33 years and because it generated a noise nuisance, it should have moved the unit to the front parkway

are you willing to foot that bill? Any idea how many thousands of dollars if would cost to make such a change? (actually it will likely be in the 10's of thousands)


but if they did move it, using the same transformers, they would still be in violation of the ordinance, correct? So, what is the benefit to them?

 

[ecmst12]

I thought you were moving several years ago anyway. So move already. If you're not happy where you're living, no one is forcing you to stay there.

 

[Johnmelissa]

Since no one "works" here, you can post as you wish.

But, even if the city can cite the utility for a violation of the muni code, they are not required to. Chances are the city would not. You are free to continue the civil process as you wish.

It seems you have a lot of trouble where you live. Neighbor, utilities ... I choose to put up with the neighbor's roosters crowing, and the dogs barking even though they are violations of the muni code. Why? Because the hassles involved fighting with the neighbors just aren't worth the occasional inconvenience.

P.S. Carl,

Did I mention that, last year, the "sworn police officer" scammed the HAMP Home Affordable Mortgage Program. Because it could adversely affect my house price, a real estate agent told me he stopped making his house payment for a year (public records). The 40' RV and other "toys" turned the mortgage into a $600K+ obligation. While personal property could have been liquidated and there was sufficient equity, the government (i.e. taxpayer) assisted with his mortgage and a "modification" took place. There were plenty of alternatives available, such as the sale of personal property like ski boats, OHV's, etc. to manage the mortgage payments but the government allowed the taxpayer to be scammed into helping a "sworn police officer" fulfill his out-of-control financial obligations. Only in America, right? Take care.