My son, 22, got a 17 yr old girl pregnant

[justalayman]

Probably the same as I did - missed being a teen or at least potentially "active" during the 60s. I was in grade school - not much opportunity but watch hippies and the peace & love crowd.

well, I am a very wee bit younger than LdiJ (and if I recall a very wee bit older than you) while missing the 60's myself, as far as being of an age girls were more interesting than camping out with the guys, there were still plenty of a similar attitude in the very early 70's...

dang, there were a lot of laws broken back then. Not me of course but it was not all that uncommon.

now that I think of those camp outs; the topic of discussion did seem to change pretty much along with the change of the decade.

 

[Just Blue]

As a note, I used to investigate these offenses as a primary job function. The reasonable mistake of age argument is exceedingly hard to make with a straight face because it often falls apart under cross examination or even in the initial investigation. Comments to friends, texts, bragging, side comments admitting to not asking, etc., all generally serve to hang the guy who claims he did not know her age. These claims almost universally fall apart. Defense attorneys promote them because it gives a client hope, and the client might then decide to bring them on. If the defense says, "You're hosed," you may not.

I never saw such a claim work. But, maybe the OP's son would be one of the few and truly dumb to have been duped into impregnating a girl in the first and only outing and able to show that she presented some form of false ID or claim to her age that he was unable to laugh off.

Ya know, once upon a time we had this time-honored tradition that prevented this sort of thing. We called it: "Dating."

OMG!! You know about dating?????????!! I thought that old timey thingy went out with the dinosaurs!

 

[CdwJava]

OMG!! You know about dating?????????!! I thought that old timey thingy went out with the dinosaurs!

Yeah ... funny thing about it - I was never accused of fooling around with a minor, never got scammed, managed to enter into some very rewarding relationships, and finally found my wife of nearly a quarter century!

 

[LdiJ]

Probably the same as I did - missed being a teen or at least potentially "active" during the 60s. I was in grade school - not much opportunity but watch hippies and the peace & love crowd.

Yep, I was age 3 to 13 during the sixties.

 

[Alex1176]

Yeah ... funny thing about it - I was never accused of fooling around with a minor, never got scammed, managed to enter into some very rewarding relationships, and finally found my wife of nearly a quarter century!

I'm also trying to act as you, and I also never been scammed and never did any crime, no drugs, minors, booze etc. But still I don't think that the punishment for one night stand suppose to be 10 years in jail. And we, as a society, need to protect people that acted in good faith, even if they are not the sharpest pencil.

 

[Zigner]

I'm also trying to act as you, and I also never been scammed and never did any crime, no drugs, minors, booze etc. But still I don't think that the punishment for one night stand suppose to be 10 years in jail. And we, as a society, need to protect people that acted in good faith, even if they are not the sharpest pencil.

Looking at a girl and saying "Yep, she looks 18 to me!" is not acting in good faith. If one were truly acting in good faith, they would know how old the girl was (or, at least if she's 18+).

 

[CdwJava]

I'm also trying to act as you, and I also never been scammed and never did any crime, no drugs, minors, booze etc. But still I don't think that the punishment for one night stand suppose to be 10 years in jail. And we, as a society, need to protect people that acted in good faith, even if they are not the sharpest pencil.

No one has gotten 10 years in prison for this (as it is not an option for sentencing). Usually it's county time and probation if anything at all.

People also need to take steps to act with common sense. We can't simply reward intentional and blissful ignorance as we expect adults to behave more responsibly.

 

[Alex1176]

Looking at a girl and saying "Yep, she looks 18 to me!" is not acting in good faith. If one were truly acting in good faith, they would know how old the girl was (or, at least if she's 18+).

I never said that "Yep, she looks 18 to me!" is a good faith. You cannot really know a real age of somebody (non-relative) because documents can be forged and people can lie. You can only assume. The judge needs to establish that a normal person will assume with strong confidence that a person is 18+, and if a girl looks like 18+ AND behaves like 18+ AND sits in a bar, a normal person with common sense will assume that she is 18+.

 

[CdwJava]

The "if I don't ask, she doesn't have to tell" defense doesn't usually work. But, as I mentioned, he's free to give that a run and then see what happens.

Of course, that's also called "guilty with an explanation." His attorney may choose not to let him speak at all if the matter ever gets into a courtroom.

 

[Proserpina]

I suppose getting to know someone before you drop your drawers is an alien concept these days?

 

[Alex1176]

I suppose getting to know someone before you drop your drawers is an alien concept these days?

What is "getting to know"? Can you please define? For John it's the third date, for Richard it's after a dinner with her parents and for Tom it's after ten years of marriage.

 

[CdwJava]

Oh, you know, the usual ... What do you do for a living? Where did you go to school? Where do you work? What are your interests? Do you want to catch a movie this weekend? Can you give me your number?

Not, "Hi, I'm a male, you're a female, let's go rut like monkeys in the parking lot."

 

[Proserpina]

What is "getting to know"? Can you please define? For John it's the third date, for Richard it's after a dinner with her parents and for Tom it's after ten years of marriage.

To me, it's common sense.

You may use your own definition of course.

 

[Alex1176]

Oh, you know, the usual ... What do you do for a living? Where did you go to school? Where do you work? What are your interests? Do you want to catch a movie this weekend? Can you give me your number?

Not, "Hi, I'm a male, you're a female, let's go rut like monkeys in the parking lot."

Ok, let's make a scenario?

John is 22 years old. He sits in a bar and suddenly spots a very pretty girl.
He approach her and start a conversation: She is looking 21, very smart and mature. during the conversation she is telling him that:
"I'm working at XYZ, I went to ABC high school, I like to dance, and yes, a movie will be great! you are cute, and my number is 12345"
He calls her and take her to the movie. After the movie he takes her to her house and invites her to come to his house next day to listen to some good music.
She came and after some time they both, young and attractive people, full of hormones, started to make love, with a condom of course because they smart and mature.

Next week the police knocks on Johns door because she is actually 17.5, and her parents found out about her having sex.
He is taken with handcuffs in front of all his family and the building and after a trial that cost his family their apartment (to pay for lawyers) he is thrown behind bars for one year with all his plans destroyed, as the only place he can work with this criminal record is a junk yard.

I think that we, as a society, should protect John from this kind of scenario. And you?

Is there something that John needed to do to avoid his arrest, except hiring a PI for every girl he dates or becoming a monk?

 

[Zigner]

Ok, let's make a scenario?

John is 22 years old. He sits in a bar and suddenly spots a very pretty girl.
He approach her and start a conversation: She is looking 21, very smart and mature. during the conversation she telling him that:
"I'm working at XYZ, I went to ABC high school, I like to dance, and yes, a movie will be great! you are cute, and my number is 12345"
He calling her and take her to the movie. After the movie he takes her to her house and invite to come to his house next day to listen to some good music.
She came and after some time they both, young and attractive people, full of hormones, started to make love, with a condom of course because they smart and mature.

Next week the police knocks on Johns door because she is actually 17.5, and her parents found out about her having sex.
He is taken with handcuffs in front of all his family and the building and after a trial that cost his family their apartment (to pay for lawyers) he is thrown behind bars for one year with all his plans destroyed, as the only place he can work with this criminal record is a junk yard.

I think that we, as a society, should protect John from this kind of scenario. And you?

Is there something that John needed to do to avoid his arrest, except hiring a PI for every girl he dates or becoming a monk?

It's a moot point. This isn't what happened to the OP's adult son.

ETA: Please don't hijack this thread any more.