Parental Alienation and Misguided Action of Judge - Georgia

[ShockedNana]

What is the name of your state? Georgia Daughter and Ex not legally married, but living together with child for 8+ years, stable situation for child, even bought a house together...close to both sets of grandparents, etc. Daughter was working part time, going to school...finally graduated, got full time job with benefits.
Daughter left him, moving back in with us due to his temper flare-ups, frequent arguing/ borderline physical abuse, knowing eventually it will affect my granddaughter, but allowed him visitation freely b/c he does love my granddaughter and she loves him...is a "daddy's girl" She tried to shield my granddaughter from his abusive nature, but it came to a head,
At first he helped financially to cover his share of health insurance that my daughter pays, after school cost, etc. then he stopped, she was living with us and did not need financial help...he had her almost 1/2 the time, but was never denied more access to her. He wasn't an absent father, but never attended a teacher conference, never was involved in Dr. appointment, etc...let my daughter handle all that. The only real conflict they had was no financial support from him and his not keeping his stay-over girlfriends out of the house when my granddaughter was with him....where she kept her dating life separate from her time with my granddaughter.
He began to say bad things about my daughter....telling my granddaughter she was going to not let her see him, etc. He had her "not tell" her mom things.
Eventually, my grand-daughter started spewing venom about her mom. anyone that knows them can easily tell the words are her dad's.
....classic parental alienation.
So after numerous attempts to get him to an agreement, to get him to legitimize my granddaughter and go to a lawyer together and arrange legally, she filed for and was awarded substantial child support...due to the fact that his salary was 2X her and he had assets....the house they bought equally she let him have.
At this point my granddaughter was 11 or 12. My daughter saved her money during the years she lived with us and finally was able to buy a small house for her and my granddaughter.
2 1/2 years ago, his 3rd "girlfriend" moved into his house with her child and her horses. Within several months, they had a falling out and he "kicked her out"
within 6 months, she was pregnant with his child, moved back in and he filed for legitimization of the baby and my grand-daughter who was 12 as well as wanting full custody
After 6 months of court hearings, lawyers, judge ruled 50/50 and reduced support to barely enough to cover his half of medical/dental cost/insurance.
Now 1 year after initial filing granted him primary custody...reduced my daughters time by half and she has to pay him????
Lawyer has much evidence in way of time lines, recorded texts and conversations, financial records, etc to back up my daughters claims....she keeps meticulous records...didnt use any of it. judge finally at last hearing talked to my grand-daughter, who told him she wanted to spend more time at her dads b/c she has a horse there. he never ordered an ad litem to represent her which would have probably been able to see through the manipulation and concerns of a 13 year old daddy's girl who now has competition for her daddy's attention...this is a no brainer. not only does he have extra time, he has final say on EVERYTHING. Appeal must be within 30 days...better to do that with another lawyer or wait a while and refile new case with new lawyer...maybe in another venue?
Any insight appreciated!

 

[ShockedNana]

What is the name of your state? Georgia Daughter and Ex not legally married, but living together with child for 8+ years, stable situation for child, even bought a house together...close to both sets of grandparents, etc. Daughter was working part time, going to school...finally graduated, got full time job with benefits.
Daughter left him, moving back in with us due to his temper flare-ups, frequent arguing/ borderline physical abuse, knowing eventually it will affect my granddaughter, but allowed him visitation freely b/c he does love my granddaughter and she loves him...is a "daddy's girl" She tried to shield my granddaughter from his abusive nature, but it came to a head,
At first he helped financially to cover his share of health insurance that my daughter pays, after school cost, etc. then he stopped, she was living with us and did not need financial help...he had her almost 1/2 the time, but was never denied more access to her. He wasn't an absent father, but never attended a teacher conference, never was involved in Dr. appointment, etc...let my daughter handle all that. The only real conflict they had was no financial support from him and his not keeping his stay-over girlfriends out of the house when my granddaughter was with him....where she kept her dating life separate from her time with my granddaughter.
He began to say bad things about my daughter....telling my granddaughter she was going to not let her see him, etc. He had her "not tell" her mom things.
Eventually, my grand-daughter started spewing venom about her mom. anyone that knows them can easily tell the words are her dad's.
....classic parental alienation.
So after numerous attempts to get him to an agreement, to get him to legitimize my granddaughter and go to a lawyer together and arrange legally, she filed for and was awarded substantial child support...due to the fact that his salary was 2X her and he had assets....the house they bought equally she let him have.
At this point my granddaughter was 11 or 12. My daughter saved her money during the years she lived with us and finally was able to buy a small house for her and my granddaughter.
2 1/2 years ago, his 3rd "girlfriend" moved into his house with her child and her horses. Within several months, they had a falling out and he "kicked her out"
within 6 months, she was pregnant with his child, moved back in and he filed for legitimization of the baby and my grand-daughter who was 12 as well as wanting full custody
After 6 months of court hearings, lawyers, judge ruled 50/50 and reduced support to barely enough to cover his half of medical/dental cost/insurance.
Now 1 year after initial filing granted him primary custody...reduced my daughters time by half and she has to pay him????
Lawyer has much evidence in way of time lines, recorded texts and conversations, financial records, etc to back up my daughters claims....she keeps meticulous records...didnt use any of it. judge finally at last hearing talked to my grand-daughter, who told him she wanted to spend more time at her dads b/c she has a horse there. he never ordered an ad litem to represent her which would have probably been able to see through the manipulation and concerns of a 13 year old daddy's girl who now has competition for her daddy's attention...this is a no brainer. not only does he have extra time, he has final say on EVERYTHING. Appeal must be within 30 days...better to do that with another lawyer or wait a while and refile new case with new lawyer...maybe in another venue?
Any insight appreciated!

Georgia

 

[Zigner]

What did your daughter's attorney say to your daughter when she asked him about an appeal in her case?

 

[ShockedNana]

Not entirely sure, but something to the effect that they would be challenging the same judge on his original decision. This is a rural county with only a few judges and father has a well known lawyer with a reputation of being difficult. My understanding from what Ive read is that appeals do not allow new evidence....just check for errors in original case....her lawyer didn't present evidence available. We thought maybe a new lawyer and venue may prevail in another trial

 

[adjusterjack]

We thought maybe a new lawyer and venue may prevail in another trial

Won't work. The father's well known lawyer will get it dismissed immediately due to

Res Judicata:

Res Judicata - Definition, Examples, Cases, Processes

 

[ShockedNana]

Doesn't evidence not presented by lawyer that could be presented in new trial count. Not new evidence but previous evidence not used.

 

[Zigner]

Doesn't evidence not presented by lawyer that could be presented in new trial count. Not new evidence but previous evidence not used.

"Previous evidence not used" *is* "new evidence" insofar as the court is concerned.

 

[LdiJ]

Not entirely sure, but something to the effect that they would be challenging the same judge on his original decision. This is a rural county with only a few judges and father has a well known lawyer with a reputation of being difficult. My understanding from what Ive read is that appeals do not allow new evidence....just check for errors in original case....her lawyer didn't present evidence available. We thought maybe a new lawyer and venue may prevail in another trial

Your daughter could not get a new trial unless it could be proven to the satisfaction of a judge that her lawyer committed basically malpractice, to the satisfaction of an appeals court that the judge abused his/her discretion, or in the future, if there is a change of circumstances that make it appropriate to revisit custody.

You should google "best interest of the child factors, Georgia" and review the factors that a judge must use in deciding custody. Until 10 years or so ago a child's wishes, once they were your grandchild's age were absolutely controlling in GA. That is no longer the case, but the child's wishes still carry significant weight.

If you review the factors objectively, I think that you will see that mom and dad stand about equal in many of them, and that some of the things you consider to matter, don't matter at all. Others are definitely in dad's favor. (child's wishes, a sibling in dad's home etc).

I am sure that it is painful for both your daughter and yourself to have this change happen, but it is likely a change that you have no real choice but to accept.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Doesn't evidence not presented by lawyer that could be presented in new trial count. Not new evidence but previous evidence not used.

Just an observation: the term "parental alienation" can be triggering. As in, using it can backlash against the party alleging it very easily.

However, given concerns about the child's behavior, it may be in the "best interests of the child" to have some form of therapy/counselling. You or Mom complaining about Dad, etc., can be potentially seen as spiteful. However, and unbiased outside party (that's also a mandated reporter) has more credibility. And anyway, even if there's nothing useful for court, at least the kid will have had some emotional support. Clearly the kid, like many tweens, is working through something emotionally.

 

[stealth2]

"Previous evidence not used" *is* "new evidence" insofar as the court is concerned.

It's always been my understanding that evidence that was available but not used at trial cannot be used to have a judgment overturned or a new trial granted. Am I mistaken?

 

[Zigner]

It's always been my understanding that evidence that was available but not used at trial cannot be used to have a judgment overturned or a new trial granted. Am I mistaken?

That is also my understanding, but I'm just an average man on the street.

 

[commentator]

First of all, you guys lost, and they expect losers to be sore. If you jump right back in with another lawyer in the same court system, I'd rate your chances in the neighborhood of VERY POOR to not at all. What is meant by filing in another venue?

If I were a 12 or 13 year old girl whose daddy had a horse for me at his house, I'd be there. Maybe you guys got played, in that he did get total custody, which turned the financial tables big, but I doubt very seriously if the child, who's about to have a baby sibling and has a horse there is going to agree without a lot of drama to go home to momma and grandma for primary custory or even back to 50/50. And since this state has a heavy history of listening to the child's wishes, I suspect that is still the way the judge (any judge) is going to lean in this one.

Please, while waiting for the situation to cool off just a little, get your granddaughter into counseling while she is with her mom. That is an additonal wall of protection against any sort of mistreatment or psychological programming that her father might be doing. Please, please, remove the term "parental alienation" from your vocabulary totally and completely, as having it come up in court would be very negative for your side. Since the judge did not see any manipulation going on (that a guardian ad litem would've seen through, you assume) it may not be real obvious to others.

 

[stealth2]

If I were a 12 or 13 year old girl whose daddy had a horse for me at his house, I'd be there.

So much this. Veering away from the legalities, I have a few ideas for Mom/Nana to make the most of the time with kiddo. If you're not already well versed in the horse stuff she enjoys - style of riding, as well as any event-type stuff - English vs Western, Jumping, Dressage, Eventing, etc. vs. Barrel Racing, Roping, etc. - now is the time to immerse yourselves. Not wrt playing dress-up in the gear but becoming conversant in what she's interested in. Find events to take her to, find out what equipment she needs, etc. If she's competing, be at every event possible, regardless of which parent's time it's on. Embrace the interest to the fullest possible extent.

Back to the alienation... Mom should put the lie to Dad's words. Whatever he says, Mom should live the exact opposite. Consistently. Kiddo will see reality eventually. The goal is to build the relationship Mom wants with her adult daughter.

 

[Taxing Matters]

It's always been my understanding that evidence that was available but not used at trial cannot be used to have a judgment overturned or a new trial granted. Am I mistaken?

That's correct. You can't hold out relevant evidence and then get a do over if you lose. New evidence is evidence that becomes known to a party after the trial and that the party could not have reasonably obtained for the trial.

 

[ShockedNana]

"best interest of the child factors, Georgia" Thank You this reference was very helpful. In reading it, I am even more convinced that provision of these things has been met equally by both parents...actually more so by my daughter as continuity...our family, close friends, etc. have been the center of her life since she was born...her dad has been very much included in this. Her time with her father since they split up 5 years ago has mostly just been with him and paternal grandparents, mutual friends. The addition of stepmother and her daughter and new baby has just been within the last year or so. I understand the draw of siblings to my granddaughter and that she may have feelings about sharing him. At my daughter's initiation, she does see a counselor ... my daughter requested that the judge mandate it in court order. My granddaughter likes her time with counselor, but she will not talk about her request to live with her dad more. From the beginning of the custody case a year ago, his lawyer has requested FULL custody for him. At every hearing (about 6), she has FIRMLY pushed for bringing my granddaughter in to confirm her desire to live full time with him. The judge did move step wise to 50/50 during summer, but then at the final hearing, talked to my grand-daughter and awarded full custody. No ad litem was appointed.