Petty Theft (CA - Frys Electronics)

[the_peanutman]

Yeesh - fine. Go in and plead GUILTY.

Haha sorry sorry, I have never undergone a trial before. Would it be wise to plead not guilty? Even if I signed a document within Frys stating I had attempted to take XX and XX items?

 

[garrula lingua]

What Zigner is telling you, is that once you say 'Guilty' or 'No Contest', the case is over - all that remains is the sentencing.
Plea bargaining is out of the picture once you say Guilty.

If you're an unrealistic purist, and can't say Not Guilty (... you took something which didn't belong to you, but are moralistic about words ...)
then ask the Court for a continuance of the arraignment (do this if you don't qualify for the PD) in order to hire an attorney.

For your edification: many people, who are guilty, plead Not Guilty, because the burden is on the State to prove their guilt 'beyond a reasonable doubt', and also, the Prosecutor has the right to bargain with those who plead Not Guilty.
Many guilty people benefit from unavailable witnesses (but, Fry's LPOs come to court), and technicalities (no jury available within time limit) which may lead to an aquittal of a culpable person.

(Guilty just goes to the Judge for sentencing. The Judge can't plea bargain (i.e. reduce charges), but can use discretion in sentencing (within a limitied area - the statute may require a minimum sentencing).
Moral: suck up to the Prosecutor. S/he has the power to change the charge (up or down)[which the Judge can't do], and their recommended sentence is usually accepted by the Judge.

 

[the_peanutman]

What Zigner is telling you, is that once you say 'Guilty' or 'No Contest', the case is over - all that remains is the sentencing.
Plea bargaining is out of the picture once you say Guilty.

If you're an unrealistic purist, and can't say Not Guilty (... you took something which didn't belong to you, but are moralistic about words ...)
then ask the Court for a continuance of the arraignment (do this if you don't qualify for the PD) in order to hire an attorney.

For your edification: many people, who are guilty, plead Not Guilty, because the burden is on the State to prove their guilt 'beyond a reasonable doubt', and also, the Prosecutor has the right to bargain with those who plead Not Guilty.
Many guilty people benefit from unavailable witnesses (but, Fry's LPOs come to court), and technicalities (no jury available within time limit) which may lead to an aquittal of a culpable person.

(Guilty just goes to the Judge for sentencing. The Judge can't plea bargain (i.e. reduce charges), but can use discretion in sentencing (within a limitied area - the statute may require a minimum sentencing).
Moral: suck up to the Prosecutor. S/he has the power to change the charge (up or down)[which the Judge can't do], and their recommended sentence is usually accepted by the Judge.

Oooh thank you very much. So the benefits of pleading not guilty is the ability to perhaps bargain the sentence? That definitely makes sense. But wouldn't pleeing not guilty be somewhat counter intuitive of sucking up to the prosecutor? I would imagine they would be annoyed if I plead not guilty, as they have to put in the effort now to convict me (is that the right term?). If anything, I would think they would give me an even more harsh sentence than what they would have had, had I plead guilty or no contest.

Sorry for the constant questions, I simply want to know what would be the best course of action to take in my situation. I really appreciate everyone's help.

 

[HighwayMan]

Bottom line is that if you are looking to get a significant break, your best bet is to plead not guilty and take it from there.

Once you plead guilty it's over and there's no going back.

 

[garrula lingua]

Usually, the first offer you get from the Prosecutor (on a slam-dunk case such as this) is the best offer you'll get (called an early disposition offer).

Once the Prosecutor 'gears up' for trial, yes, the offer is less. Most Prosecutors will still offer a plea (but, they don't have to offer any plea bargain, on any case).

Usually, the defendant's attorney will 'waive time' when the case is set for pre-trial (they have 45 days from the entry of your plea, to get you to trial). That takes the pressure off the attorneys - the trial will be scheduled later.

Most Prosecutors would love to try a case such as you describe - it's a slam-dunk guilty. They will expect you to try for a plea bargain.

Try to get a PD who will negotiate with the Prosecutor. If you're present, to beg, when s/he speaks with the Prosecutor, it usually helps (puts a face on the facts). If the Prosecutor will bargain, expect a ton of community service.
--Give the Prosecutor a reason to give you a break - remorse, squeaky clean record, going into the military (only if true - they'll check everything you say), heavy volunteer work in the community, why this was behavior different than normal.
Don't whine, though.
Dress well, speak fast (they don't have time to talk). Beg quick. If it's true, start with: I had an excellent, squeaky-clean record, until this happened; I'm sick over this. I'll do anything I can to keep this off my record.
Do not talk about the facts of the case with the Prosecutor, just the potential sentence. They can be a witness against you regarding the facts of the case.

 

[the_peanutman]

Usually, the first offer you get from the Prosecutor (on a slam-dunk case such as this) is the best offer you'll get (called an early disposition offer).

Once the Prosecutor 'gears up' for trial, yes, the offer is less. Most Prosecutors will still offer a plea (but, they don't have to offer any plea bargain, on any case).

Usually, the defendant's attorney will 'waive time' when the case is set for pre-trial (they have 45 days from the entry of your plea, to get you to trial). That takes the pressure off the attorneys - the trial will be scheduled later.

Most Prosecutors would love to try a case such as you describe - it's a slam-dunk guilty. They will expect you to try for a plea bargain.

Try to get a PD who will negotiate with the Prosecutor. If you're present, to beg, when s/he speaks with the Prosecutor, it usually helps (puts a face on the facts). If the Prosecutor will bargain, expect a ton of community service.
--Give the Prosecutor a reason to give you a break - remorse, squeaky clean record, going into the military (only if true - they'll check everything you say), heavy volunteer work in the community, why this was behavior different than normal.
Don't whine, though.
Dress well, speak fast (they don't have time to talk). Beg quick. If it's true, start with: I had an excellent, squeaky-clean record, until this happened; I'm sick over this. I'll do anything I can to keep this off my record.
Do not talk about the facts of the case with the Prosecutor, just the potential sentence. They can be a witness against you regarding the facts of the case.

Wow garrula lingua, I am truly in your debt. Thank you so much for the keen advice. Although I don't want to jinx my chances of negotiating the punishment, your comments have given me the first shred of legitimate hope after this whole ordeal. I really do appreciate and respect everything you have to say. Thank you.

Just to reiterate what you mentioned:
1. Talk quick

2. Don't talk about the facts, but rather, focus on what I would hope to do in order to compensate for my actions.

3. Dicuss why I should even be allowed to negotiate

4. Pray for the best

 

[cyjeff]

Wow garrula lingua, I am truly in your debt. Thank you so much for the keen advice. Although I don't want to jinx my chances of negotiating the punishment, your comments have given me the first shred of legitimate hope after this whole ordeal. I really do appreciate and respect everything you have to say. Thank you.

Just to reiterate what you mentioned:
1. Talk quick

2. Don't talk about the facts, but rather, focus on what I would hope to do in order to compensate for my actions.

3. Dicuss why I should even be allowed to negotiate

4. Pray for the best

Let me add...

keep your nose clean until the trial.... anything you do now counts double.

If you smoke, don't before court. If you drink, don't before court.

Show up clean, dress in your Sunday best, and get a good night's sleep the night before so you don't look like you just finished a bender with a Mexican Rodeo.

Yes, that was a personal reference.

 

[the_peanutman]

Let me add...

keep your nose clean until the trial.... anything you do now counts double.

If you smoke, don't before court. If you drink, don't before court.

Show up clean, dress in your Sunday best, and get a good night's sleep the night before so you don't look like you just finished a bender with a Mexican Rodeo.

Yes, that was a personal reference.

Dang.. I guess going to that rave party right before court day is no longer an option..

Completely kidding of course. But thank you, definitely would not want to accumulate any more incriminating evidence from this point on.

Does anyone else have any other ideas on essentials that I might have left out of the list?

 

[dave33]

Yea, allow me to simplify the whole scenario. You personally should have to say little if anything at all. That is of course assuming that your attorney is doimg his/her job.1st the arraignment, not guilty is the only way to go. Imagine this, you plead guilty, the judge has a hair across his butt, and gives you 6 months to serve! Oops- you sure would be wishin' you said not guilty.Pleading not guilty is expected, and will in no way reflect negatively on your final sentence. Pleading not guilty at the arrgt. is just part of the process.2nd, A pre-trial conference date will be determined and this is when the plea negotiations will take place. On that day attendance will be called to make sure of your presence. Than the court will take a break. The district attorney will have a bunch of files representing each defendant and your attorney will have your file which will hopefully contain ammunition for your lawyer to negotiate the best deal they can get. So, the d.a. and defense attorneys will leave the courtroom and meet in private(defendants not welcome).That is when your lawyer will return to discuss with you the outcome of the discussion. Hopefully the d.a. will have made an offer and your attorney will meet/discuss this with you. At this point you have the option of accepting the offer or going on to trial. Let's assume you take the deal, than you sign the paperwork than go in front of the judge to finalize things.You may have a public defender,if you do than this is my only advice to you.Public defenders are very busy,and unless you familiarize yourself with him,you may not even know who he is until you go before the judge. Try to meet with him before the day you have to be in court. Give him something/anything so he can mount a reasonable arguement on your behalf. The information you give your attorney is your entire defense. Try to present the info. in such a way as to make it easy for your attorney to remember when discussing your case. Remember,depending upon your district the p.d. may have several similiar cases.He may be discussing some or all of these at the same time as yours. goodluck. Dave

 

[garrula lingua]

Depends upon how busy the Prosecutor is (for them to convey an offer to defense counsel at first appearance) - many misdemeanors are settled on the arraignment day in CA (at the first appearance).

Not all courts do a 'calendar call'. Most of Los Angeles county doesn't - that's up to the Judge. There is no call, break, and negotiation. In many CA criminal courts, arraignments, pretrial, preliminary hearings and trials are heard in the same court (unless the city is prosecuting). Most criminal defense attorneys are appearing in different courts, and arrive at different times.

The courts are so crowded, negotiation is usually done in the court or hallway. Only serious crimes are negotiated in the office.

If you can speak to the Prosecutor with the PD present, you're putting a 'face' to the case, and you're ensuring the PD will plead your situation to the DDA. You won't have much time - the DDA will, usually, have about fifty cases to handle that day.

You, generally, can't speak with the PD before his/her appointment as your attorney. They will be appointed at the arraignment - tell them you want to negotiate a reduction & you'll do a ton of community service or Caltrans (cleaning up the freeway). Caltrans can interfere with school, so think before you ask. Regular community service can be done on Sats, Suns & some after hours.

 

[the_peanutman]

Yea, allow me to simplify the whole scenario. You personally should have to say little if anything at all. That is of course assuming that your attorney is doimg his/her job.1st the arraignment, not guilty is the only way to go. Imagine this, you plead guilty, the judge has a hair across his butt, and gives you 6 months to serve! Oops- you sure would be wishin' you said not guilty.Pleading not guilty is expected, and will in no way reflect negatively on your final sentence. Pleading not guilty at the arrgt. is just part of the process.2nd, A pre-trial conference date will be determined and this is when the plea negotiations will take place. On that day attendance will be called to make sure of your presence. Than the court will take a break. The district attorney will have a bunch of files representing each defendant and your attorney will have your file which will hopefully contain ammunition for your lawyer to negotiate the best deal they can get. So, the d.a. and defense attorneys will leave the courtroom and meet in private(defendants not welcome).That is when your lawyer will return to discuss with you the outcome of the discussion. Hopefully the d.a. will have made an offer and your attorney will meet/discuss this with you. At this point you have the option of accepting the offer or going on to trial. Let's assume you take the deal, than you sign the paperwork than go in front of the judge to finalize things.You may have a public defender,if you do than this is my only advice to you.Public defenders are very busy,and unless you familiarize yourself with him,you may not even know who he is until you go before the judge. Try to meet with him before the day you have to be in court. Give him something/anything so he can mount a reasonable arguement on your behalf. The information you give your attorney is your entire defense. Try to present the info. in such a way as to make it easy for your attorney to remember when discussing your case. Remember,depending upon your district the p.d. may have several similiar cases.He may be discussing some or all of these at the same time as yours. goodluck. Dave

Hey Dave, thank you for the very thorough outline. With that explanation, I suppose it is in my best interest to plead not guilty, on the basis that there is a (albeit small) possibility I could get a reduced sentence. But as garrula lingua mentions, will I be able to meet with my Public Defender even before my first court date? I was under the impression that I am assigned a PD when I check in on my first day, so is there an opportunity for me to first request a PD even before my first court day? I have to go into the court office to request a change in the date of my first appearance because it conflicts with school, so should I mention I would like to request a PD then? Sorry for all the questions, and thank you for all of your help.

Again, thank you garrula lingua for the advice. At this point, I wouldn't mind cranking out as many hours as needed to resolve this situation. I will mention to both my PD and prosecutors that I am willing to give up all of my free time to commit to performing community service.

Is there anything else I could use in my defense for a possible reduced sentence?

 

[the_peanutman]

So I've actually been browsing several other websites for advice about my dilemma, and I've seen several comments advising me to stay away from a public defender, and hire a real lawyer? I had mentioned before that funds are pretty tight, so I would rather prefer not to pursue the latter option.

My question is, is it really that unwise to seek protection under a public defender? Will they "really try to screw me over?"

 

[Zigner]

So I've actually been browsing several other websites for advice about my dilemma, and I've seen several comments advising me to stay away from a public defender, and hire a real lawyer?

PD's ARE real lawyers

 

[the_peanutman]

PD's ARE real lawyers

Touche..

HAHA sorry sorry, I didn't mean to disrespect the PDs.

I guess what I should have asked was, is it really that much more beneficial to have a paid attorney versus a public defender aid my case in court? Personally, I feel like a PD is more than sufficient in help mitigating the sentence for my actions, but I would like to hear your inputs.

 

[>Charlotte<]

It's kind of a moot point. A public defender isn't someone you use because you don't want to pay for an attorney, s/he's someone you use because you can't pay for an attorney.

If you can afford a private attorney you won't qualify for a PD. You'll be asked to submit information to determine whether you qualify or not.