possible prescription forgery?? HELP!

[tranquility]

In most criminal cases, the mens rea or mental state is usually the most difficult thing to prove. Here it seems like intent is key. While very possible to imply intent from all the actions taken by the suspect, conciousness of guilt is a great one. Running away, hiding the evidence or LYING TO THE POLICE are great ways the DA has to imply intent to a jury. Now, forgetting to say something may not be a "lie" as long as it was not left out on purpose, but, like the intent proof problem, how can we tell the intent of a person who fortuitiously "forgets" something which looks incriminating?

Not only that, but because no defense attorney will put his client on the stand it is impossible for the suspect to refute the implication of a lie of omission rather than simply forgetting.

The OP, "because i was so panicked that night i had totally forgotten i had been to the pharmacy another time that day to drop off another rx and i neglected to tell them that so they are considering that a "false statement". " I don't see how this can be fixed without the OP testifying. Worse, while a misdemeanor, it certainly implies lying about the underlying felony doesn't it? Which brings us back to INTENT to possess a forged script. Thus completing the elements of the felony.

Now, let's face it, no one on the list was really buying into the OPs story in the first place. But things which make you go "hmmm.." are not the same or enough to convict a person of a felony.

The OP, by talking to the police without an attorney, changed a hmmm.. to a probable conviction and is now looking at a lifetime which will be far harder because of the comming criminal record. Before the attorney had a chance with the right jury. Now?

To all others who read the thread in the future, guilty or no, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT. USE IT!

 

[pinapple807]

You know, I'm hesitant to even waste another minute of my time on this thread since it's clear that the OP doesn't really care what advice we have to offer. A perfect example of 100% agreement in the replies (when does that ever happen?) and the OP ignores them, and every last thing people warned about actually occurred.

So let's start with a few basics and we'll see whether it's worth the effort to continue this.

The first issue is the "false statement" charge. I've re-read your posts 2x now and I don't see one mention of you ever providing a written statement to the police, much less an inaccurate one. Care to elucidate?

But without even knowing the details, if, as you claim, the only "issue" was you leaving out a prior visit to the pharmacy earlier the same day, then omitting something like that is not "making" a false statement. While it may be a lie-by-omission, the crime requires an affirmative act. Thus, either you're lying (again), or the police are just tacking on charges, possibly to use as leverage.

Either way, before you mess this up any more than you already have, you need to speak to a lawyer, like, yesterday. (Oh wait - you did! Shame you didn't listen...)

as far as the statement goes, the night of the rx fraud arrest in walmart where i was taken to the station and questioned i had to give a statement. when i explained the story originally and i said i had discussed everything with the investigator and i had been questioned i did fail to specifically mention i gave a statement but i guess i must have assumed it was implied. i apologize for that. they asked me all kinds of questions about where i was that day and what i had done and who i had been with and why i was at the walmart that night and what my plans were for the rest of the night. and in the panic of the situation i totally forgot that i had been to walmart another time that day to drop off a different rx(not one in question obviously) and they told me that because i never told them that and because i gave them my whereabouts for the day and neglected to tell them that i falsified information and lied and gave a false written statement. i did call and leave a message for the lawyer so i just have to wait to hear back from him.

most of you have said on here that the majority of people are told dont talk to the police without a lawyer present and then they do so anyway. people make mistakes. its not like i have been in trouble with the police before and i know how to handle these situations. i was scared and alone all day yesterday and had no idea what was going on and then was stranded 2 1/2 hours away from home and was told that i had to find my own way to get home. i am sorry if you feel you wasted your time and advice on me but i was only trying to handle the situation the best way i could and keep myself out of trouble.

 

[tranquility]

as far as the statement goes, the night of the rx fraud arrest in walmart where i was taken to the station and questioned i had to give a statement.

NO, you didn't.

when i explained the story originally and i said i had discussed everything with the investigator and i had been questioned i did fail to specifically mention i gave a statement but i guess i must have assumed it was implied. i apologize for that. they asked me all kinds of questions about where i was that day and what i had done and who i had been with and why i was at the walmart that night and what my plans were for the rest of the night. and in the panic of the situation i totally forgot that i had been to walmart another time that day to drop off a different rx(not one in question obviously) and they told me that because i never told them that and because i gave them my whereabouts for the day and neglected to tell them that i falsified information and lied and gave a false written statement. i did call and leave a message for the lawyer so i just have to wait to hear back from him.

Sucks to be you. You should have shut the **** up.

most of you have said on here that the majority of people are told dont talk to the police without a lawyer present and then they do so anyway. people make mistakes. its not like i have been in trouble with the police before and i know how to handle these situations. i was scared and alone all day yesterday and had no idea what was going on and then was stranded 2 1/2 hours away from home and was told that i had to find my own way to get home. i am sorry if you feel you wasted your time and advice on me but i was only trying to handle the situation the best way i could and keep myself out of trouble.

Welcome to your felony conviction. Feel better?

I don't usually answer in such stark terms, but there was a real chance you would not be convicted if you didn't say anything. That's not to say you wouldn't have been convicted, but just that there was a real chance. I don't see that now. Super duper, I'm sorry you're upset about that, or on the judgment of those on the list, but that's the way it is. Thanks for playing the game of life. In this complex society you screwed up. You can't make it go away and you can't call a mulligan and re-take the shot. Sucks to be you.

 

[las365]

[this is] A perfect example of 100% agreement in the replies (when does that ever happen?) and the OP ignores them, and every last thing people warned about actually occurred.

I KNOW! And not only did she ignore the good advice she got, she argued with it and gave her reasons that she was going to ignore it and was then dumbfounded when she was arrested and charged. Now she keeps repeating her story (which I don't find credible) as if convincing people on a message board that she is innocent will somehow affect her real-life criminal case.

OP, if you didn't think that people here were giving you accurate advice before, do you now? If you do, then you will stop posting details about your case and not talk to ANYONE except your lawyer about your case.

 

[outonbail]

At this point I predict her lawyer, which she has indicated will be a public defender, is not going to do much more than advise her that since she gave statements to the police during two or three different interviews, that there is not much he or she can do at this point, to argue her case. Hence, they will be telling her to accept the first deal the DA puts on the table.

My experience with public defenders, is while they may certainly be qualified lawyers, they are burdened down with such a load of cases, that it is just not humanly possible for them to put forth their best effort to defend every client. They must choose their battles carefully and not waste time trying to win a case which their client's actions and statements have essentially admitted guilt without even making it to a courtroom.

So the only chance I can see where the OP has any hope of coming out of this without a felony conviction, is by hiring an experienced private attorney, who is still willing to take on the DA in a trial if it were to come down to that. Then at least the DA will know there are no guarantees that they will prevail without a lot of preparation being done by the time the trial date arrives.

Just knowing they still have their work cut out for them, will usually squeeze a better settlement deal out of them.

But when it is the public defender's case, the DA also knows that most public defenders are not going to have the time and resources necessary to properly prepare for trial if they expect to prevail in it. So there is not nearly as much motivation to make a better offer.

So at this point, I think this young lady is going to need that shark of an attorney who likes to show his/her teeth and isn't afraid to use them.

Which means that she now has to understand that she can not look at this situation with the attitude that she can not afford a private attorney.
She has to understand that now, she can't afford not to have one in her corner.

 

[pinapple807]

a lesson in courtesy...

i have never met any of you and i certainly know you have never met me, so i cannot understand why you feel it necessary to be so rude. i was at no point rude or disrespectful to any of you and i do not appreciate the fact that you have decided to treat me the way you have. i am dealing with a serious situation right now and whether i made it worse or not, i came to this forum for advice from people who i thought would be able to help me. not attack me. and that is what you have done, you have attacked me. sometimes people do not take the advice they have been given, as the majority of you have said people do not use the right to remain silent, so i do not know why you have chosen to attack me but i just want you to know it is not appreciated. i am a good decent person, i have never had any kind of record before and i get myself into a predicament because i didnt realize a rx was forged and because i didnt stay silent now i am in trouble. i wanted some advice on the topic and i came here thinking i would get some answers and all you have done is verbally assault me and at this time it is something i really do not need. i'm sure after reading this there will be much more verbal attack and you will comment on how i am naive to post on here and to not expect to be bashed or something similar however i could not stand to see these remarks on here and not at least say something about it. i realize i do not know any of you and it really doesnt even matter, but that is the kind of person that i am, i believe in standing up for myself and when someone puts me down that way i am going to defend myself. so maybe next time before you attack someone on here that is just asking for advice(unless of course they have been disrespectful or rude) you should treat them with the same courtesy they have you.

 

[Perky]

i have never met any of you and i certainly know you have never met me, so i cannot understand why you feel it necessary to be so rude. i was at no point rude or disrespectful to any of you and i do not appreciate the fact that you have decided to treat me the way you have. i am dealing with a serious situation right now and whether i made it worse or not, i came to this forum for advice from people who i thought would be able to help me. not attack me. and that is what you have done, you have attacked me. sometimes people do not take the advice they have been given, as the majority of you have said people do not use the right to remain silent, so i do not know why you have chosen to attack me but i just want you to know it is not appreciated. i am a good decent person, i have never had any kind of record before and i get myself into a predicament because i didnt realize a rx was forged and because i didnt stay silent now i am in trouble. i wanted some advice on the topic and i came here thinking i would get some answers and all you have done is verbally assault me and at this time it is something i really do not need. i'm sure after reading this there will be much more verbal attack and you will comment on how i am naive to post on here and to not expect to be bashed or something similar however i could not stand to see these remarks on here and not at least say something about it. i realize i do not know any of you and it really doesnt even matter, but that is the kind of person that i am, i believe in standing up for myself and when someone puts me down that way i am going to defend myself. so maybe next time before you attack someone on here that is just asking for advice(unless of course they have been disrespectful or rude) you should treat them with the same courtesy they have you.

I've followed this thread because I don't know much about criminal procedure. I have to say, I learned a LOT! Hopefully, I'll never need this information (knock on wood), but it's good to know.

Little lady, you have not been bashed nor attacked. This entire thread has been one of the most objective and helpful LONG threads I've ever read on FA. You have been treated with kid gloves. Take a look around some of the other forums or other long threads to see just how kindly you've been treated. Even the post that tranquility thought was stark, IMO showed a lot of restraint.

So, to every poster who offered this girl advice, I want say THANK YOU. I learned a lot from you over the past couple of days.

 

[outonbail]

Well pinapple, I hope you feel better now that you got that off your chest and believe it or not, it is exactly what I was hoping to hear. Why you ask? Because only yesterday, you posted this;

anything regarding police makes me extremely nervous ~~~ and had no idea what was going on ~~~ i was scared and all alone ~~~ I was so upset I couldn't stop crying or hyperventilating

And here it is, only 24 hours later and your posting this;

i believe in standing up for myself and when someone puts me down that way i am going to defend myself.

So you see grasshopper, you’re already showing improvement in your unwillingness to be intimidated. Of course it’s much easier to demonstrate how your not bothered by anyones attitude or opinion over the Internet, than it is when your on the other side of the detectives desk, but you’ve got to start somewhere and it appears you are.

Do you understand my point? Well just to make sure you do, here’s something from your first post, when you started this thread:

And also, the Investigator from my home police department was extremely rude to me so I am assuming he thinks I am guilty of something, otherwise he would have no reason to be so rude to me.

Can you see the added benefit of what you’re receiving here? Do you think that it just might be important to get a lesson that includes a good dose of what you believe is a personal attack against you and unnecessary “rudeness”?

If not then, “Surprise” your not only learning a little something about how the law works in the real world, you are also being prepared for the attitude you will be receiving from the police and prosecutor. So your welcome, for also learning how to deal with the “rude attitude” you will be facing as you try to get through this legal nightmare.

And here you thought we were picking on you.

With this in mind, I might add that a modicum of appreciation, for the replies you have received is not out of line here,,,,, Especially the rude ones!

So while I certainly appreciate your concern and desire to help us with your lesson in courtesy, we don’t actually need it. In fact, we can all be as courteous, polite and respectful as the church choir is when they are meeting the Pope. But our efforts here are much more effective when we demonstrate what someone should expect and what they will be subjected to, when they face the people they will be dealing with in our legal system.
and frankly, you really do need a lesson in how to receive and then handle “rude attitude”. This way, you might be able to make it work to your advantage, rather than theirs.

 

[>Charlotte<]

and that is what you have done, you have attacked me.

Really? I didn't see any attack. What I did see was this:

Pineapple: I'm in trouble, does anyone have any advice for me?
Free Advice: Don't talk to them.
PA: But I have to talk to them. What should I do?
FA: Don't talk to them.
PA: Well I have an appointment to see them tomorrow. I really need help.
FA: Don't talk to them.
PA: I'll just explain what happened and then everything will be okay. What do you think?
FA: Let your lawyer talk to them.
PA: I don't have time to get a lawyer and I have to be there in less than 12 hours. I need advice!
FA: Don't talk to them.
PA: I didn't do anything wrong! Why do they want a statement?
FA: Don't talk to them.
PA: I talked to them and then I got arrested. I need advice, please.
FA: @#$(*#$^)^%@)%^*
PA: Waaaaah! Why are you being so meeeeeeeeeean to meeeeeeee???
FA:

 

[>Charlotte<]

And just to give you an illustrative comparison, this would have been an attack:

You're a liar. If you think anyone here or your local police is dumb enough to believe your story that "one of your roommates must have done it, it wasn't you!" then it's time to realize none of us are your Mommy or Daddy and this is not like the time you got caught breaking curfew and they totally bought the excuse that your watch broke and then there was a lot of heavy traffic because of a wreck on the highway which got closed down so you had to take the long way home and then you got lost. We have no incentive to believe that our precious baby girl would never lie to us, and we're not reluctant to ground you because then you would miss the prom. In the real world, people generally tend to follow the rule of Occam's Razor, so it's time to understand you're being prosecuted for something you did. It's time to grow up and realize you've done something that's going to result in something other than taking away your cell so you can't text Jessica for two weeks. Committing a felony usually results in things like handcuffs and jail and fines and probation. Knock off the little girl whiney excuses, grow up, understand your responsibility for what you did, and start handling this like a grown up. Get a lawyer, and do exactly what he tells you to do which will include, I'm sure, stop helping the people that are trying to put you in jail !!

There. See the difference?

 

[seniorjudge]

Little Miss Pineapple got thousands of dollars worth of accurate and correct legal advice on this thread and she's b*tching because she doesn't like the way she got it!


Let me just say this about that:

Oh.

Brother.

 

[You Are Guilty]

Pineapple, this is a bell that can't be unrung. By speaking to the police (and providing them with written statements) without a lawyer, you have chosen a course of action which bears a real risk of being "uncorrectable", even with a lawyer's help.

There is no further advice that anyone here can offer other than what was already said about a dozen times - stop talking, to anyone, about what happened until you speak to a lawyer. You have dug yourself a deep hole from which you may not get out, but at least you can stop making it deeper.

Oh, and if you think we're rude, just wait till you spend some time in a holding cell (or even a short stint in your local jail if/when you're convicted of the felony).

 

[outonbail]

I read through this thread again myself to see if I might have missed any personal attacks the first time around.
This resulted in me noticing two issues I must comment on.
One: was the affirming of my belief that the OP hasn't be treated like the hockey puck she is claiming to feel like. She hasn't been slapped around by people swinging sticks in an ice cold atmosphere.
Two: There was a reply posted by the OP, where she was answering my question regarding how her "low-life" roommates would even know about the prescription and/or where to find it. I completely missed something about her reply, that has now struck me as being suspicious and possibly the unintentional Freudian slip, that indicates she knows exactly who altered the subscription.
Here's the part of her reply I'm referring to:

i see the doctor because of my sleep problems because i would only sleep for like 2 hours a night. so when the doctor prescribed it to me i told her that was the resolve.

The suspicious reference here is that she didn't tell her low-life roommates about the prescription, (roommates as in plural) she told "her" That's her as in singular.
Is it possible that "her" was the person who applied the ink? I don't know how I missed this the first time around, but it stood out on my second read.

Even if she did only tell this one girl about the prescription, wouldn't this one girl become the single conduit that transmitted this information to the person with the black pen?

and when I think about it, there is no way a group of young college girls could ever keep who altered the prescription a secret for any longer than maybe ten minutes,,,,

 

[pinapple807]

just to clarify.

I read through this thread again myself to see if I might have missed any personal attacks the first time around.
This resulted in me noticing two issues I must comment on.
One: was the affirming of my belief that the OP hasn't be treated like the hockey puck she is claiming to feel like. She hasn't been slapped around by people swinging sticks in an ice cold atmosphere.
Two: There was a reply posted by the OP, where she was answering my question regarding how her "low-life" roommates would even know about the prescription and/or where to find it. I completely missed something about her reply, that has now struck me as being suspicious and possibly the unintentional Freudian slip, that indicates she knows exactly who altered the subscription.
Here's the part of her reply I'm referring to:
" The suspicious reference here is that she didn't tell her low-life roommates about the prescription, (roommates as in plural) she told "her" That's her as in singular.
Is it possible that "her" was the person who applied the ink? I don't know how I missed this the first time around, but it stood out on my second read.

Even if she did only tell this one girl about the prescription, wouldn't this one girl become the single conduit that transmitted this information to the person with the black pen?

and when I think about it, there is no way a group of young college girls could ever keep who altered the prescription a secret for any longer than maybe ten minutes,,,,

again, i dont know how to quote a specific thing in a post so i am just going to copy and paste but i thought what you said was interesting. you are still trying to accuse me of forging or knowing who forged the rx. " especially because i started taking it during the school year because ONE of them suggested i see the doctor because of my sleep problems because i would only sleep for like 2 hours a night. so when the doctor prescribed it to me i told HER that was the resolve." i said my one roommate suggested i talk to the doctor about taking meds to sleep and when i was prescribed the ambien i told her (singular) that is what happened. therefore you have no reason to accuse me of anything for that reason or any other reason. i have and had no reason to forge my own prescription. i was given that prescription every month for several months and never had any problems and after all of this happened i decided to stop taking the medication so obviously its not like i have a drug problem where i needed to take the medication.

you can all continue to accuse all you want, the fact of the matter is i came to this website for advice which, you gave but you gave with an attitude. and if you think giving free legal advice to people with an attitude is the right thing to do or to talk down to them just because they are young then that is your business but the fact of the matter is there is a way to approach things and the way you did was not it. you treat people the way you want to be treated whether you are "preparing them" for something or not, a simple warning that the police or the DA would be rude would have sufficed but to act in that manner is not necessary. you very easily could have given me advice or prepared me for the situation i would have endured with a smile. its just like working in a profession you dont like, if you cant do it with a smile and treat your patrons and customers with kindness then you should not be doing it, its not fair to the people you have to deal with or the people that deal with you who are just coming to you for help.

and it has nothing to do with my age or being a whiny little brat as someone referred to me having my cell phone taken away and not "being able to text jessica for two weeks". guess what. i am not an immature 16 year old. i am 21 an have been out of high school for quite some time now. have been paying my own bills since i turned 16 and although i do live with my mother, i support myself, pay rent as well as buy my own groceries. not to say that i am complaining that i have a difficult life however i do not want to be mistaken for some spoiled brat who committed a crime and i am upset for having my feelings hurt.

 

[PJ Weber]

you can all continue to accuse all you want, the fact of the matter is i came to this website for advice which, you gave but you gave with an attitude

You have been given the best advice that could have been given-

1) You were told NOT to talk to the Police. You did anyway
2) You were told to get a lawyer. You didn't

Whoever altered the Rx is irrevalent now, the police spotlight is on you because you
didn't do what you were told. You pretty much made the case against yourself

Those who have given excellent advice have shown great patience with you

Get a lawyer NOW !!