printing poorly formatted legal statutes

[quincy]

Actually in Ohio attorneys can appear in small claims cases. I have done it. ...

Good to know. In Michigan, attorneys are not permitted to represent parties in small claims actions.

Pickaname should seriously consider at least consulting with an Ohio attorney even if pickaname chooses not to hire one for court.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

I'd actually bet that Pickaname is just making this all harder on him/herself than it needs to be.

 

[quincy]

I'd actually bet that Pickaname is just making this all harder on him/herself than it needs to be.

Pickaname is certainly trying to present more “evidence” than I think is typically used in small claims. But I don’t think we’ve been told what the case is about (or the amount of damages being claimed) so perhaps s/he feels it necessary.

 

[pickaname]

This is perhaps a good time to point out a case where my access to law was blocked by a walled garden. Not too long ago I was looking at NC law § 115C-402.5 (b)(2), where it delegates legislation to the NC board of education. Yet when I go to the site with those laws, I'm blocked by a walled garden. As far as I can tell, the public does not get online access to that law. It may be in an NC law library, but I don't live in that state.

BTW, when I previously said "the law itself is also in a walled-garden", I did not mean all copies of the law are in a walled garden. I meant that the up-to-date Lexis copy of law is in a walled garden, and we incidentally benefit from the existence of other copies being published online. But if those other copies were not available online, then Lexis would in fact be a private company who controls the sole copy law published online. It's a bit haphazard how that's working out, and there are holes in it when you look at the case of North Carolina BoE.

And FWIW, I've been to a law library before looking for the book that covers the law on how to format a civil complaint in Ohio. I probably spent upwards of 30 min. looking for a book on civil procedure that would cover that and could not find it. There was no catalog as far as I could see, and the legal jargon on the binders is hard to understand for a non-lawyer.

 

[quincy]

This is perhaps a good time to point out a case where my access to law was blocked by a walled garden. Not too long ago I was looking at NC law § 115C-402.5 (b)(2), where it delegates legislation to the NC board of education. Yet when I go to the site with those laws, I find a paywall. As far as I can tell, the public does not get access to that law.

BTW, when I previously said "the law itself is also in a walled-garden", I did not mean all copies of the law are in a walled garden. I meant that the up-to-date Lexis copy of law is in a walled garden, and we incidentally benefit from the existence of other copies being published online. But if those other copies were not available online, then Lexis would in fact be a private company who controls the sole copy law published online. It's a bit haphazard how that's working out, and there are holes in it when you look at the case of North Carolina BoE.

And FWIW, I've been to a law library before looking for the book that covers the law on how to format a civil complaint in Ohio. I probably spent upwards of 30 min. looking for a book on civil procedure that would cover that and could not find it. There was no catalog as far as I could see, and the legal jargon on the binders is hard to understand for a non-lawyer.

The law is definitely not easy for non-lawyers to navigate without a guide. Nor is medicine.

That is why we have lawyers and doctors to guide us when we have more than a simple legal case or a scratch that needs a bandaid.

There have been efforts underway for some time now to make the laws easier for the average person to access and understand. There is obviously more that can be done.

 

[Zigner]

This is perhaps a good time to point out a case where my access to law was blocked by a walled garden. Not too long ago I was looking at NC law § 115C-402.5 (b)(2), where it delegates legislation to the NC board of education. Yet when I go to the site with those laws, I find a paywall. As far as I can tell, the public does not get access to that law.

The site you linked to is a private site, not a government site. Additionally, your statement is non-sensical. The LAW is at the link you posted. Here it is for you, copied from your first link above:

...
(b) Security of Student Data System. - To ensure student data accessibility, transparency, and accountability relating to the student data system, the State Board of Education shall do all of the following:
...
(2) Develop rules to comply with all relevant State and federal privacy laws and policies that apply to personally identifiable student data in the student data system, including, but not limited to, FERPA and other relevant privacy laws and policies. At a minimum, the rules shall include the following:
a. Restrictions on access to personally identifiable student data in the student data system to the following individuals:
1. Authorized staff of the State Board of Education and Department of Public Instruction and the contractors working on behalf of the Department who require such access to perform their assigned duties.
2. Authorized North Carolina public school administrators, teachers, and other school personnel and contractors working on behalf of the board of the North Carolina public school who require such access to perform their assigned duties.
3. Students and their parents or legal guardians, or any individual that a parent or legal guardian has authorized to receive personally identifiable student data.
4. Authorized staff of other State agencies and contractors working on behalf of those State agencies as required by law and governed by interagency data-sharing agreements.
b. Criteria for approval of research and data requests for personally identifiable student data in the student data system made to the State Board of Education from State or local agencies, researchers working on behalf of the Department, and the public.

BTW, when I previously said "the law itself is also in a walled-garden", I did not mean all copies of the law are in a walled garden. I meant that the up-to-date Lexis copy of law is in a walled garden, and we incidentally benefit from the existence of other copies being published online. But if those other copies were not available online, then Lexis would in fact be a private company who controls the sole copy law published online. It's a bit haphazard how that's working out, and there are holes in it when you look at the case of North Carolina BoE.

Your "fact" is in error.

And FWIW, I've been to a law library before looking for the book that covers the law on how to format a civil complaint in Ohio. I probably spent upwards of 30 min. looking for a book on civil procedure that would cover that and could not find it. There was no catalog as far as I could see, and the legal jargon on the binders is hard to understand for a non-lawyer.

As mentioned above, your lack of sophistication on the matter does NOT mean that you don't have access to it.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Are you saying you couldn't get to 115C-402.5 (b)(2)?

If so here it is. https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByChapter/Chapter_115C.html

 

[Zigner]

Are you saying you couldn't get to 115C-402.5 (b)(2)?

If so here it is. https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByChapter/Chapter_115C.html

The OP posted the same link...
If he can't access it, then either there was a technical glitch, or there's something wrong with whatever equipment he's trying to use to access it.

 

[quincy]

Legal research is both an art and a skill.

FreeAdvice provided the link for pickaname. pickaname was trying to access the law through the North Carolina State Bar website.

 

[pickaname]

@Zigner You simply quoted the publicly accessible portion that states "State Board of Education shall.. Develop rules..". Of course the referring law is accessible, but not the rules that the BoE is obligated to write. Where are the rules that § 115C-402.5 (b)(2) directs the BoE to write?

 

[Zigner]

I wonder if you're talking about the USC references in law. Those are also available at no charge on the web.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

@Zigner You simply quoted the publicly accessible portion that states "State Board of Education shall.. Develop rules..". Of course the referring law is accessible, but not the rules that the BoE is obligated to write. Where are the rules that § 115C-402.5 (b)(2) directs the BoE to write?

So you aren't looking for the law. You are looking for the rules/regulations ordered by the law.

You don't know how to find things because you don't know what the things are.

 

[Zigner]

@Zigner You simply quoted the publicly accessible portion that states "State Board of Education shall.. Develop rules..". Of course the referring law is accessible, but not the rules that the BoE is obligated to write. Where are the rules that § 115C-402.5 (b)(2) directs the BoE to write?

https://simbli.eboardsolutions.com/SB_ePolicy/SB_PolicyOverview.aspx?S=10399

Any other questions?

If not, then I DO have one...what do the NC Board of Education rules have to do with an Ohio matter?

 

[pickaname]

https://simbli.eboardsolutions.com/SB_ePolicy/SB_PolicyOverview.aspx?S=10399

Any other questions?

If not, then I DO have one...what do the NC Board of Education rules have to do with an Ohio matter?

Thanks, that could be useful to me at some point. The scope of the thread is really just about how to get the law in a readable format, and how/whether to present it to the court in a hearing. I mentioned Ohio b/c that's where I have an immediate need, but I was also interested in general answers since I travel quite heavily and have activities in different states. Perhaps I'll code a pretty printer for law if I get the urge -- as it seems if I did, I would not be repeating an effort that has already been done.

 

[Zigner]

The scope of the thread is really just about how to get the law in a readable format

It already is.

and how/whether to present it to the court in a hearing.

Did I miss that question in your thread somewhere? In any case, for an answer to THAT, speak to your attorney.