Privacy Question

[swalsh411]

What possible evidence have you seen to suggest that your employer is monitoring/intercepting text and picture messages on your personal phone?

If you're only asking because you think they might be, and have no evidence to support it, then you might want to check out the tinfoilhat.com forums.

 

[Proserpina]

You say "may". How can I found out if there is or isn't?





The content is not in violation of the phone company policy.

Also, please don't assume I was doing anything. I never said that I did anything. All I did was ask a legal question.

You'll likely find that the very kind volunteers here don't care too much for hypotheticals.

 

[ivanl3]

What possible evidence have you seen to suggest that your employer is monitoring/intercepting text and picture messages on your personal phone?

If you're only asking because you think they might be, and have no evidence to support it, then you might want to check out the tinfoilhat.com forums.

I never said any of those things. All I did was ask a simple question. Not sure what compels you and others to make all these assumptions.

I thank Quincy for answering the direct question.

I understand Proserpina's point that the volunteers here generally don't like to answer hypotheticals. I was hoping that a very specific legal question (without an actual case) might still be be answered.

But if people don't want to answer, or don't know the answer, that is fine. But I see no value to anyone by making blind assumptions.

 

[ivanl3]

do I really need to go on?

No, please don't. If you can't understand the original question or don't know that answer to it, you certainly do not need to go on.

 

[justalayman]

No, please don't. If you can't understand the original question or don't know that answer to it, you certainly do not need to go on.

Oh, so you want some overly ambiguous answer to that ambiguous question. I see.


Hell, I'll go ahead and even give you an answer based on the question as posed:



there is nothing illegal, wrong, or problematic in general with their actions.



of course that is all based on the details I injected into the undefined question. If you want an answer that means anything, details are needed.

 

[LdiJ]

I never said any of those things. All did was ask a simple question. Not sure what compels you and others to make all these assumptions.

I thank Quincy for answering the direct question.

I understand Proserpina's point that the volunteers here generally don't like to answer hypotheticals. I was hoping that a very specific legal question (without an actual case) might still be able to be answered.

But if people don't want to answer, or don't know the answer, that is fine. But I see no value to anyone by making blind assumptions.

Ivan, I don't believe that there is any way that the company would be able (technology wise) to monitor usage of the employee's data usage of their cell phone unless the employee was connecting to the employer's WIFI in using the phone...or unless the employer was actually the cell phone company that the employee was using.

In the first instance the employee simply should not connect to the employer's WIFI. In the second instance the employee should perhaps simply refrain from using their cell for data usage while at work.

 

[quincy]

... I was hoping that a very specific legal question (without an actual case) might still be be answered.

But if people don't want to answer, or don't know the answer, that is fine. But I see no value to anyone by making blind assumptions.

First, your "very specific legal question," as you worded it in your original post, had no specific legal answer - and you will probably not find a specific legal answer to any hypothetical question. There are just too many "it depends" involved with hypotheticals. That is why we don't often entertain them here.

That said, I suggest you visit the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse site at http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs7-work.htm. I believe there you can find some helpful information that addresses your expressed interest in privacy law and employment law, and find some case law to review, and additional links to additional sites for additional reference materials.

 

[ivanl3]

First, your "very specific legal question," as you worded it in your original post, had no specific legal answer - and you will probably not find a specific legal answer to any hypothetical question. There are just too many "it depends" involved with hypotheticals. That is why we don't often entertain them here.

That said, I suggest you visit the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse site at http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs7-work.htm. I believe there you can find some helpful information that addresses your expressed interest in privacy law and employment law, and find some case law to review, and additional links to additional sites for additional reference materials.

Thanks Q. Appreciate it.

 

[justalayman]

I just wanted to say that if OP thinks his employer is monitoring his usage as it passes through their servers (as texts, MMS, and internet access will) that is not his employer doing the monitoring. It is the US government. The have already acknowledged it. They have been monitoring everybody...and no this is not some tinfoil hat conspiracy. It is both claimed by various sources, both reliable and fringe but the gov has acknowledged some of the systems used and what is actually being monitored. If one believes what has been disclosed is the only active system, they do need to wake up.

 

[ivanl3]

Ivan, I don't believe that there is any way that the company would be able (technology wise) to monitor usage of the employee's data usage of their cell phone unless the employee was connecting to the employer's WIFI in using the phone...or unless the employer was actually the cell phone company that the employee was using.

In the first instance the employee simply should not connect to the employer's WIFI. In the second instance the employee should perhaps simply refrain from using their cell for data usage while at work.

It is the second instance that I am referring to. You also made a suggestion about the employee refraining from using their cell for data usage while at work. But I never said the cell was being used while at work. What I asked was if it was legal for a cell phone company to monitor (and take action) their employees cell phone data usage (on their personal device) period. Now if you tell me that it is legal for the company to do this while not at work but legal while at work, I would be interested in knowing which specific laws apply.

 

[justalayman]

What I asked was if it was legal for a cell phone company to monitor (and take action) their employees cell phone data usage (on their personal device) period. Now if you tell me that it is legal for the company to do this while not at work but legal while at work, I would be interested in knowing which specific laws apply.

yes, that is legal. It's what they do to generate a bill for you every month.

Now, if you want to ask about something other than monitoring is such a general term, then the answer could be very different.


and your employer can fire you just because they want to so using some information garnered from your phone usage is fair game as well.

 

[ivanl3]

I just wanted to say that if OP thinks his employer is monitoring his usage as it passes through their servers (as texts, MMS, and internet access will) that is not his employer doing the monitoring. It is the US government. The have already acknowledged it. They have been monitoring everybody...and no this is not some tinfoil hat conspiracy. It is both claimed by various sources, both reliable and fringe but the gov has acknowledged some of the systems used and what is actually being monitored. If one believes what has been disclosed is the only active system, they do need to wake up.

Take a deep breath. Go for a walk and try to clear your head.

The recent news regarding the NSA obtaining information from Cell Phone companies regarding individual's cell phone usage is not relevant to my question. My question is about the legal rights (or lack thereof) of cell phone companies to monitor (and act on) the cell usage of their employees while using personally owned devices.

But since you seem to enjoy injecting assumptions into the equation, try going it another way. Imagine I am the employer (the CEO or other exec) of the cell phone company. Suppose I order that the company begin monitoring the use of all the employees in the company who buy service from us. And then take action on what is found. Is the company violating any laws by doing this?

Maybe that will help you understand the question.

 

[ivanl3]

yes, that is legal. It's what they do to generate a bill for you every month.

Now, if you want to ask about something other than monitoring is such a general term, then the answer could be very different.


and your employer can fire you just because they want to so using some information garnered from your phone usage is fair game as well.

Yes, if I worked for a company in an at-will employment relationship, the can legally fire me for wearing green socks. I know that.

But do they have the right to read my texts, look at MMS pics, see what sites I visited, etc, etc without my permission or without a court order? And if it is illegal for them to do that (which I think it might be), I'm not sure it would be legal to fire me for what they learned through an illegal action.

 

[justalayman]

But since you seem to enjoy injecting assumptions into the equation, try going it another way. Imagine I am the employer (the CEO or other exec) of the cell phone company. Suppose I order that the company begin monitoring the use of all the employees in the company who buy service from us. And then take action on what is found. Is the company violating any laws by doing this?

again, lack of definition demands the answer to be:

maybe, maybe not

You refuse to define any question to the point that any meaningful answer can be provided. I can give you myriad scenarios where the overly vaguely described situation leads to criminal actions and I can give you myriad scenarios where it would be totally within the law.

 

[justalayman]

But do they have the right to read my texts, look at MMS pics, see what sites I visited, etc, etc without my permission or without a court order? And if it is illegal for them to do that (which I think it might be), I'm not sure it would be legal to fire me for what they learned through an illegal action.

Oh, so now you are starting to define the question a bit. This is the first mention of actually observing the content of the data.

but yet, it still does not provide enough detail to give you a meaningful answer. There are possibilities where it is legal and possibilities where it would not.