problem with hubby's ex

[julbug66]

What is the name of your state? Arizona


My husband was granted a divorce in November of 2002. during the two years of the separation, he had his kids in his (then our) care from wednesday afternoon through sunday evenings. he also took them to their grandmother's house in CA for camping trips and christmas. all in all, he spent well over 200 days a year with his children. he asked for the same amount of time in his court case (he represented himself, as did his ex). she asked for him to only have his kids every other weekend, then she said "well, no, every weekend would be better". anyway, to get to the point, the judge later ordered that my husband have his children every other weekend and a few holidays, totalling 78 days a year! the thing is, he still has them 4 days a week! the problem with this is that child support is calculated based on days per year. so, his child support is now 621, when it SHOULD be about 150. we petitioned to modify parenting time and support, due to the parenting time and because we have a new daughter together, and it was denied. according to a lawyer, it was most likely due to the fact that the order was issued so recently. in the meantime, what should we do to avoid going broke? should we try to refile a modification based solely on having a new child (which techinally should be enough), or should we consult a lawyer?

 

[hmmbrdzz]

What is the name of your state? Arizona


My husband was granted a divorce in November of 2002. during the two years of the separation, he had his kids in his (then our) care from wednesday afternoon through sunday evenings. he also took them to their grandmother's house in CA for camping trips and christmas. all in all, he spent well over 200 days a year with his children. he asked for the same amount of time in his court case (he represented himself, as did his ex). she asked for him to only have his kids every other weekend, then she said "well, no, every weekend would be better". anyway, to get to the point, the judge later ordered that my husband have his children every other weekend and a few holidays, totalling 78 days a year! the thing is, he still has them 4 days a week! the problem with this is that child support is calculated based on days per year. so, his child support is now 621, when it SHOULD be about 150. we petitioned to modify parenting time and support, due to the parenting time and because we have a new daughter together, and it was denied. according to a lawyer, it was most likely due to the fact that the order was issued so recently. in the meantime, what should we do to avoid going broke? should we try to refile a modification based solely on having a new child (which techinally should be enough), or should we consult a lawyer?

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Let me get this right. Your husband had children by a prior marriage and had them 200 days out of the year for two years until divorce proceedings. During divorce proceedings, he asked for the same amount of time with his children, and the judge ordered "every other weekend and some holidays to total 78 days per year". Judge also ordered child support to be paid in the amount of $621.00.

You are contending, though, that since he has his children 4 days a week now (instead of 78 days per year), that his portion of the child support should actually be reduced to $150.00 vs. $621.00. You're also contending that the 4 days per week the children spend in his care should be reduced in order to shift the care and the cost onto the other parent (his ex wife). And you're contending that because of a new baby this is a "technically" strategically sound plan.

Here's my advice to you to keep from going broke. Get a job that pays a whole lot of money. You are the one who decided to bring another child into the world by a man who already has two children he apparently loves and wants to see but is having a difficult time providing for (apparently). Second piece of advice: Practice birth control until you and he together can provide for four children entirely and independently of the other parent, who could die tomorrow.


hmmbrdzz

 

[julbug66]

>>You are contending, though, that since he has his children 4 days a week now (instead of 78 days per year), that his portion of the child support should actually be reduced to $150.00 vs. $621.00. <<
according to the Child Support Calculator used by the courts (www.supreme.state.az.us), a parent that exercises over 173 days of visitation gets credit for providing 48.6% of the total child support obligation. the total obligation is based on total gross income of both parents. the 78 days visitation allows the 'visiting' parent something like a 12% credit. my numbers are legit per the caculator, which, as i mentioned before, is the same calculator the courts use.


>>You're also contending that the 4 days per week the children spend in his care should be reduced in order to shift the care and the cost onto the other parent (his ex wife). <<
why would you say that i wanted that? we both enjoy having hs children here with us, and they think of this as their home. i wouldn't want to take that away from them, my husband or my daughter.


>>And you're contending that because of a new baby this is a "technically" strategically sound plan. <<
and the "new baby" thing is because the courts take into consideration the costs of supporting other children when they calculate the total income of the parents. this cost of supporting her, when subtracted from his gross income, would lower his obligation by about $100 a month. that would be the "at least 15% difference" required by the courts to modify a support order.

what i was asking was, should we modify it based SOLELY on that, or should we also factor in the parenting time as well?

and, we are not having trouble providing for our family. but if he continues to have to pay his ex the amount he has been ordered, we will eventually.

 

[julbug66]

>>Practice birth control until you and he together can provide for four children entirely and independently of the other parent, who could die tomorrow. <<

hon, if she did die tomorrow, we would certainly be able to provide for four children very well, and our lives would be so much more peaceful.

thanks for caring

 

[stealth2]

Your having a child together is completely irrelevant to his child support. The best thing to do at this point - as you won't be able to file for a modification until a certain amount of time has passed - is to document all the time the kids are with Dad. As soon as the time period's elapsed - file for a mod.

 

[hmmbrdzz]

and, we are not having trouble providing for our family. but if he continues to have to pay his ex the amount he has been ordered, we will eventually.

===================================

My response: That's the same thing as having financial trouble now.

===================================

hon, if she did die tomorrow, we would certainly be able to provide for four children very well, and our lives would be so much more peaceful.

========================================

My response: That's a bunch crap. You can't provide for four children or you wouldn't have come to these boards.

Do her children have the same sentiments you have about their real mother dying? Will their lives be more peaceful if she dies?

Have a good day.


hmmbrdzz

 

[stealth2]

Actually, using the 200 days vs the 78, and going on straight percentages, the CS would be more on the order of $250 than $150.

 

[djohnson]

I'm with momma tiger on this one. Keep track of what is actually going on. When you are able to take it back to court you can use this to your advantage and possibly get joint custody legal and physical. Keep track of everything though and be able to back it up. She can deny it and it would be your word against hers. I am not going condemn you or judge you but you having another child is not going to get his responsibility of child support changed. It is based on (typically) the amount of money he grosses and you would have to wait a period of time to even try to get a modification. Taking on being a step parent isn't always easy no matter what the circumstances but you made that decision and the one to have your child (if he was just divorced in 11/02 then you were pregnant before the divorce). This has nothing to do with parenting but is something she can use against him (possibly has). If she didn't want to give him that much time then why is she allowing it now? Why would the judge not give him an amount of time that she agreed to and was closer to what he wanted? I think there is more going on here.

 

[julbug66]

Arizona Revised Statute 25-503 states: "E. Any order for child support may be modified or terminated on a showing of changed circumstance that is substantial and continuing, except as to any amount that may have accrued as an arrearage before the date of notice of the motion or order to show cause to modify or terminate. ..."
the official Arizona Child Support Guidelines states:
5. Adjustments to Gross Income
... "Children of other relationships" means natural or adopted children who are not the subject of this particular child support determination.

c. Support of natural or adopted children not covered by a court order may be considered as an adjustment factor. Any adjustment will be made to gross income and the amount of any adjustment will be determined by a simplified application of the guidelines to determine the basic amount of support that would be ordered for the other children in question.

EXAMPLE: A parent having gross monthly income of $2,000 supports an adopted minor child not subject of the support case before the court and for whom no support order exists. Locate $2,000 in the Combined Adjusted Gross Income column of the Schedule. Select the support figure in the column for one child, $383. The parent's income may be reduced by $383, resulting in an Adjusted Gross Income of $1,617.

so it's not like i'm making this up, or just wishfully thinking.

and, thank you for not judging me. but just so you know, i've been with the man who is now my husband for 2 1/2 years. he was separated from his exwife for well over 2 years before their divorce was final (long story). and if there are people on this board who want to impress their hoity-toity views on me, don't. this isnt the forum. i just wanted LEGAL advice from unbiased parties. i'm sure there are chat rooms out there i can find if i needed to be told how to live, thank you very much.

and i have been keeping a calendar for a while now. and there isnt a time requirement for modification of support only, just parenting time. and he already has Joint Custody (somehow) so that doesnt need to be changed.

thanks

 

[hmmbrdzz]

Arizona Revised Statute 25-503 states: "E. Any order for child support may be modified or terminated on a showing of changed circumstance that is substantial and continuing, except as to any amount that may have accrued as an arrearage before the date of notice of the motion or order to show cause to modify or terminate. ..."
the official Arizona Child Support Guidelines states:
5. Adjustments to Gross Income
... "Children of other relationships" means natural or adopted children who are not the subject of this particular child support determination.

c. Support of natural or adopted children not covered by a court order may be considered as an adjustment factor. Any adjustment will be made to gross income and the amount of any adjustment will be determined by a simplified application of the guidelines to determine the basic amount of support that would be ordered for the other children in question.

EXAMPLE: A parent having gross monthly income of $2,000 supports an adopted minor child not subject of the support case before the court and for whom no support order exists. Locate $2,000 in the Combined Adjusted Gross Income column of the Schedule. Select the support figure in the column for one child, $383. The parent's income may be reduced by $383, resulting in an Adjusted Gross Income of $1,617.

so it's not like i'm making this up, or just wishfully thinking.

and, thank you for not judging me. but just so you know, i've been with the man who is now my husband for 2 1/2 years. he was separated from his exwife for well over 2 years before their divorce was final (long story). and if there are people on this board who want to impress their hoity-toity views on me, don't. this isnt the forum. i just wanted LEGAL advice from unbiased parties. i'm sure there are chat rooms out there i can find if i needed to be told how to live, thank you very much.

and i have been keeping a calendar for a while now. and there isnt a time requirement for modification of support only, just parenting time. and he already has Joint Custody (somehow) so that doesnt need to be changed.

thanks

Excuse me? You want to motion the courts AGAIN to drop child support payments from 610.00 to 150.00 and want nothing but unbiased, friendly legal advice on a public forum? Life is just not that easy, especially with kids (and especially when you're the one who asked publically how to "not go broke"). Here's my advice again: Get a good paying job, and practice birth control. Second piece of advice: stop announcing publically that YOUR life would be more peaceful if the children's mother was dead. That's about as hoity toity as it gets, "hun".




hmmbrdzz

 

[julbug66]

-i didn't ask for advice on how "not to go broke".
-i don't need strangers telling me to practice birth control
-once again, this is not the forum for that. unless you have worthwhile legal advice to offer, why are you posting? good Lord, you're acting like i beat your children or something. take a pill.

 

[hmmbrdzz]

-i didn't ask for advice on how "not to go broke".
-i don't need strangers telling me to practice birth control
-once again, this is not the forum for that. unless you have worthwhile legal advice to offer, why are you posting? good Lord, you're acting like i beat your children or something. take a pill.

No.... you are the one who is supposed to take a pill. (BCP). And the heck you didn't ask on how not to go broke. (Read your first note). If you can't afford 610.00 per month for "children" and want this reduced to 150.00 per month for "children" because you have a "new children" at your side, you ARE broke and it not -- you are well on your way to financial straits. One doesn't petition the court to pay only 150.00 in child support for TWO CHILDREN unless they are BROKE. Advice from this stranger, who you asked advice from, is: Get a good paying job and practice birth control, i.e. take responsibility for marrying someone who had two children and who doesn't practice birth control and who has an ex-wife you apparently can't stomach. It takes a lot of money to deal with a situation such as yours. That is good legal advice to you.

If you don't like a stranger telling you to get a good paying job and to put a cork in it, then go pay for an attorney to tell you how "not to go broke". Since you can amply afford four children, you should be able to afford an attorney. Besides, at the rate you're going, the DSS will be telling you to practice birth control pretty soon because you'll be over there seeking Medicaid and food stamps for your family, which is another piece of advice I'll give you while I'm here. Go visit them to help you not "go broke". Your children may just qualify for assistance.

Another piece of advice: Don't bash those children's mother regardless of her flaws. That is not healthy for those children.

I'm not here to win your admiration or to waste my time, your time, or anyone else's time with "candy coating".


hmmbrdzz

 

[djohnson]

I'm just curious if after your next child and he leaves you if you will think 150.00 is enough. They were there first and you made the decision to take it on knowing it was already a priority. Then without waiting you have another child to throw in the mix. If the other 2 is only worth 150.00 a month how do you figure your one os worth the 460.00 deduction you are wanting. I don't think you are being fair at all or realistic.

 

[VeronicaGia]

Keep track of every minute spent with the children. Since the order was just established in Nov. 2002, you may have to wait until Nov. 2003 to ask for a modification. In other words, the judge likely just had the case before him/her, and didn't want to see it again so quickly.

On this website: www.deltabravo.net there is a "parenting time tracker" that can be used by your husband to track every minute he is with the children.

 

[hmmbrdzz]

Here are some links that speak to the costs of raising children (and tips on how to plan for it and save money for their future).


http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/businessmanagement/DF5899.html

http://www.govspot.com/news/reports/family.htm


http://www.upromise.com/corp/pressroom/prssinfo/financingFact.html

http://www.msmoney.com/mm/planning/marriage/college_planning.htm


hmmbrdzz