Speaking Spanish in an American School Teacher's Meeting

[Zigner]

I wasn't aware they decided on an official national language. When did that happen?

Agreed -

It's just as bad that assert that the meeting MUST be given in English. America, as we stand now, does NOT have an "official" or "required" language.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

III. What Other Practices Are Discriminatory Under These Laws?
Title VII

Title VII prohibits not only intentional discrimination, but also practices that have the effect of discriminating against individuals because of their race, color, national origin, religion, or sex.

National Origin Discrimination

It is illegal to discriminate against an individual because of birthplace, ancestry, culture, or linguistic characteristics common to a specific ethnic group.
A rule requiring that employees speak only English on the job may violate Title VII unless an employer shows that the requirement is necessary for conducting business. If the employer believes such a rule is necessary, employees must be informed when English is required and the consequences for violating the rule.
The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 requires employers to assure that employees hired are legally authorized to work in the U.S. However, an employer who requests employment verification only for individuals of a particular national origin, or individuals who appear to be or sound foreign, may violate both Title VII and IRCA; verification must be obtained from all applicants and employees. Employers who impose citizenship requirements or give preferences to U.S. citizens in hiring or employment opportunities also may violate IRCA.

Additional information about IRCA may be obtained from the Office of Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices at 1-800-255-7688 (voice), 1-800-237-2515 (TTY for employees/applicants) or 1-800-362-2735 (TTY for employers) or at http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/osc.

http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/qanda.html

In this case, it's can be considered discriminatory against the folks who CANNOT speak Spanish. You have to remember the cases of reverse discrimination that were done. This sounds exactly like it.

Contact the ACLU.

 

[Humusluvr]

Agreed -

It's just as bad that assert that the meeting MUST be given in English. America, as we stand now, does NOT have an "official" or "required" language.

Principal gives instructions in Spanish - - 95% of teachers understand them.

Principal gives instructions in English - - 100% of teachers understand them.

I can't understand how any posters here can argue that giving instructions in English isn't necessary, and how giving instructions in Spanish isn't discriminating against people who DONT speak Spanish....

 

[Isis1]

Principal gives instructions in Spanish - - 95% of teachers understand them.

Principal gives instructions in English - - 100% of teachers understand them.

I can't understand how any posters here can argue that giving instructions in English isn't necessary, and how giving instructions in Spanish isn't discriminating against people who DONT speak Spanish....

i understand that it's discrimination, but from i've been reading, it's LEGAL discrimination.

would any of the dual language teachers be willing to offer the service of translation anytime the speaker starts speaking spanish?

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Principal gives instructions in Spanish - - 95% of teachers understand them.

Principal gives instructions in English - - 100% of teachers understand them.

I can't understand how any posters here can argue that giving instructions in English isn't necessary, and how giving instructions in Spanish isn't discriminating against people who DONT speak Spanish....

Because of my location, we have grounds employees who speak minimal English. I have to give information in BOTH languages to keep us out of doo-doo (think chemical usage here.)

I'm going on the "reasonable man" thinking here. I TEACH in an American school in the US. It would be reasonable to receive schooling in ENGLISH from the principal.

Again, think ACLU.

 

[Zigner]

Principal gives instructions in Spanish - - 95% of teachers understand them.

Principal gives instructions in English - - 100% of teachers understand them.

I can't understand how any posters here can argue that giving instructions in English isn't necessary, and how giving instructions in Spanish isn't discriminating against people who DONT speak Spanish....

For the record, I am ONLY arguing against the folks who state (paraphrasing): This is America, speak English.

And, also for the record...I'm doing it from the position of Devil's Advocate.

 

[Humusluvr]

For the record, I am ONLY arguing against the folks who state (paraphrasing): This is America, speak English.

And, also for the record...I'm doing it from the position of Devil's Advocate.

I totally get you! I am arguing from the position that the state test is in English, all the teachers (supposedly) speak English, the school is in the US, and not everyone speaks Spanish. I could understand doing one session in English and one in Spanish (to the workers who need it), but all the teachers HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK ENGLISH TO TEACH.

I'm going to recommend to her that she make an appt to speak to the principal, and ask that if he is going to say things in Spanish, that he immediately repeat them in English so that she understands. If he doesn't stop or whatever, I will suggest she contact the ACLU, or the teacher's union.

 

[JETX]

FOR THE RECORD.... my post, very early in this thread, was based SOLELY on the information provided by the OP. In the original thread, the OP said, "Do you think I could argue that it is discriminatory for a Principal to speak Spanish during a Teacher's inservice?"

Clearly, the OP said A teacher's inservice. This is singular..... A.
My post was accurate based on the OP's implication that this conversation was between the principal and the ONE teacher. It sounded to me like the OP was asking the forum on behalf of this ONE teacher.

Only later did the OP clarify that this was done "during school meeting" and that it involved "200 teachers".

If the OP had been clear in the beginning.... my response would have been entirely different.

 

[Zigner]

FOR THE RECORD.... my post, very early in this thread, was based SOLELY on the information provided by the OP. In the original thread, the OP said, "Do you think I could argue that it is discriminatory for a Principal to speak Spanish during a Teacher's inservice?"

Clearly, the OP said A teacher's inservice. This is singular..... A.

The "A" referred to the event...not the individual

I agree - it was a bit of "jargon" which can be misinterpreted...

 

[Humusluvr]

FOR THE RECORD.... my post, very early in this thread, was based SOLELY on the information provided by the OP. In the original thread, the OP said, "Do you think I could argue that it is discriminatory for a Principal to speak Spanish during a Teacher's inservice?"

Clearly, the OP said A teacher's inservice. This is singular..... A.
My post was accurate based on the OP's implication that this conversation was between the principal and the ONE teacher. It sounded to me like the OP was asking the forum on behalf of this ONE teacher.

Only later did the OP clarify that this was done "during school meeting" and that it involved "200 teachers".

If the OP had been clear in the beginning.... my response would have been entirely different.

You are correct, it should have been teachers' inservice.

What would you have advised had I been grammatically correct in the beginning?

 

[JETX]

The "A" referred to the event...not the individual

I agree - it was a bit of "jargon" which can be misinterpreted...

Especially since "Teacher's" is possessive, indicating that it was an in-service for A teacher.
If there were multiple teachers in presence, it should have been TEACHER in-service.
Or even better... teacher in-service meeting with 200 teachers present.

 

[cbg]

The difficulty here is that you do not have to be of Hispanic origin to speak Spanish. Anyone can learn to speak Spanish no matter what your national origin - Swedes, Chinese, Nepalese, Bulgarians, any of them can, with sufficient motivation, learn to speak Spanish. My best friend speaks it fluently and she is a combination of French, German, Irish and American Indian without a drop of any national origin even remotely resembling Hispanic, and with the exception of four years at at Pennsylvania college she has lived her entire life within 20 miles of the same Massachusetts rural community. So pulling out the "ethnic group" card is not likely to do you a whole lot of good.

 

[ecmst12]

And I am guessing that the teachers who do speak spanish come from a variety of ethnic backgrounds, as to those who do NOT speak spanish. Language ONLY is not protected. And the discrimination has nothing to do with ethnicity, only language.

 

[Humusluvr]

The difficulty here is that you do not have to be of Hispanic origin to speak Spanish. Anyone can learn to speak Spanish no matter what your national origin - Swedes, Chinese, Nepalese, Bulgarians, any of them can, with sufficient motivation, learn to speak Spanish. My best friend speaks it fluently and she is a combination of French, German, Irish and American Indian without a drop of any national origin even remotely resembling Hispanic, and with the exception of four years at at Pennsylvania college she has lived her entire life within 20 miles of the same Massachusetts rural community. So pulling out the "ethnic group" card is not likely to do you a whole lot of good.

I totally agree. I wanted to learn Spanish, and my background is English. My motivation is that I didn't want people talking about me behind my back, but in front of my face, in a different language.

But my friend does not have the same motivations I did. She is at her job, a school in Texas, where the teachers' tests are in English, the students take their exam in English, the textbooks are in English, the forms they fill out are done in English, their gradebooks are in English, and she's cool with all that - because she speaks English.

The principal, on the other hand, mixes his English and Spanish, making a sort of Spanglish. He gives job-vital instructions in Spanglish, and she doesn't understand it. Nor should she have to. The principal should address all the teachers in English, because under PDAS -

Professional Development and Appraisal System (PDAS)
Introduction

PDAS remains in place as the State's approved instrument for appraising its teachers and identifying areas that would benefit from staff development. Cornerstones of the process include a minimum of one 45-minute observation and completion of the Teacher Self-Report form. PDAS includes 51 criteria within eight domains reflecting the Proficiencies for Learner-Centered Instruction adopted in 1997 by the State Board for Educator Certification (SBEC). The domains are:

1. Active, Successful Student Participation in the Learning Process
2. Learner-centered Instruction
3. Evaluation and feedback on Student Progress
4. Management of Student Discipline, Instructional Strategies, Time/Materials
5. Professional Communication
6. Professional Development
7. Compliance with Policies, Operating Procedures and Requirements
8. Improvement of All Students' Academic Performance

Included in the appraisal system are Instructional Leadership Development (ILD) and Administrator Appraisal.

PDAS requires that new teachers and teachers new to a district receive an orientation. In addition, the PDAS Teacher Manual is to be given to ALL teachers
(see Letter to the PDAS Trainer Addressed).

She is appraised in English, and by giving his instructions in Spanish, he makes it IMPOSSIBLE to achieve #5 - and thus hurts her job appraisal.

 

[Just Blue]

I totally agree. I wanted to learn Spanish, and my background is English. My motivation is that I didn't want people talking about me behind my back, but in front of my face, in a different language.

But my friend does not have the same motivations I did. She is at her job, a school in Texas, where the teachers' tests are in English, the students take their exam in English, the textbooks are in English, the forms they fill out are done in English, their gradebooks are in English, and she's cool with all that - because she speaks English.

The principal, on the other hand, mixes his English and Spanish, making a sort of Spanglish. He gives job-vital instructions in Spanglish, and she doesn't understand it. Nor should she have to. The principal should address all the teachers in English, because under PDAS -



She is appraised in English, and by giving his instructions in Spanish, he makes it IMPOSSIBLE to achieve #5 - and thus hurts her job appraisal.

She should notify the school committee regarding his inability/refusal to follow protocol.