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Texas Visitation Modification

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GeneralZod

Active Member
@Ohiogal please also note that the moment of my "EDIT" and @stealth2 post are exactly at the same time.
In other words... I was fixing my mistake (after I figured out what (s)he was asking) at the exact same time (s)he posted.

No way that I would have been able to write and post that in under a minute.

Food for thought.... either which way... it does not make me a liar.

It makes me human and missing a citation in an other VERY LONG and very documented post.

Thank you
 


Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Lied... I am sorry... where did you get LIED from?

IN RE INTEREST OF EADP, Tex: Court of Appeals, 5th Dist. 2016 (like added if you want to see it)

A parent's remarriage and a change in home surroundings have been held to constitute a material change of circumstances justifying modification of conservatorship. Arredondo v. Betancourt, 383 S.W.3d 730, 734-35 Tex. App.-Houston [14th Dist.] 2012, no pet.); In re A.L.E., 279 S.W.3d at 428-29 (non-exclusive list of material changes, as described by other courts, include marriage of one of the parties and change in home surroundings); Zeifman, 212 S.W.3d at 593 (evidence of parent's subsequent marriage to another after rendition of a divorce decree can constitute a relevant, material change of circumstances). Here, Father had remarried and had moved from his mother's home to a three bedroom, two bath home with a bedroom for E.A.D.P. and J.T.C.P. and a bedroom for C.E.P. Mother, on the other hand, had moved from an apartment to a motel suite that had one bedroom area.

ABOVE is a direct copy and paste from the case itself... with emphasis added.

In the Interest of E.A.D.P., J.T.C.P. and C.E.P (the case) was clearly in the verbiage where of the original post.

A small failure on my part to FULLY LIST every single piece of information in my (extensively) long post is NOT A LIE!
This is exactly why I asked what @stealth2 was referring to.
You stated you wrote it all. You didn't. YOU copied and pasted from a blog. That is a lie. Aka, an untruth. A fabrication. A misleading.
 

GeneralZod

Active Member
You stated you wrote it all. You didn't. YOU copied and pasted from a blog. That is a lie. Aka, an untruth. A fabrication. A misleading.
Did you even read my answer to his original question?

I am not sure what you are saying here... I wrote my reply.
I referenced where I got my information from, it is all in there if you read it ... Examples:
Is there a particular phrase or quote that you are asking about?
Further more... if you look closely... you will see that I edited my post to more directly answer his question BEFORE he posted his reply.

And a failure to supply a link to a reference is NOT A LIE, it is an ERROR, particularly given the numerous citings that I made in my post.

Thank you
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Zod - you posted, word-for-word the paragraph I reposted, both from your original post and from the original source (along with the link to the source). No, YOU did not write it. Nor did you attribute where it came from. That is known, most everywhere, as plagiarism.


stealth out.
 

GeneralZod

Active Member
You stated you wrote it all. You didn't. YOU copied and pasted from a blog. That is a lie. Aka, an untruth. A fabrication. A misleading.
Read what I said.... I WROTE MY REPLY!

Never did I say I wrote it all.
It is clear that I did not write it all... I listed multiple citings.

Your argument does not hold water.

I cannot say that I wrote it ALL when I make citings...

I wrote my reply... That reply was 100% written by me with multiple citings.
I am sorry that I forgot to link 1 citing out of ... what... 20 ???

That is called a mistake.
 

GeneralZod

Active Member
Zod - you posted, word-for-word the paragraph I reposted, both from your original post and from the original source (along with the link to the source). No, YOU did not write it. Nor did you attribute where it came from. That is known, most everywhere, as plagiarism.


stealth out.
Again, I failed to cite one portion of the document.

Have you ever failed to list a citing .... when making a document of multiple citings from multiple sources?
At this moment, I made a mistake... I did not try to make any gain from that citing.

I just pointed out that you were wrong when you said that remarriage or changing houses does not constitute a change in circumstance.

The fact that I failed to reference exactly where I got that one little phrase from out off all the many sources I did have is an ERROR.

I gained nothing from that mistake.
But my point is still valid... you were wrong in your assertion that Marriage and/or moving does not constitute a change in circumstance.
 

GeneralZod

Active Member
**EDIT**
I see what I did wrong and it would have helped if I read my post over again.
I used the dallasdivorcelawyerblog.com to get the case name. I used the case in a different tab (obviously) and searched for the key phrase (bold and underlined) in the actual case.
However, when I transferred the information to my posting, I must have clicked on the wrong page/tab (as it can be seen by the text below, I thought it was a "CASE" but I was not paying enough attention to see that I grabbed the information from the website and not the case.

That is only 1 of many cases as an example that marriage or change of home does constitute a change of material circumstance (at least here in Texas).
The case was cited within the text... but I did not read it enough to figure out that I posted the wrong information and for that I am sorry.
It was not intentional.

You used copyrig ht-protected material, taken not from a case but from a website that wrote about the case.
Correct, and I failed to make a proper citation on the text that I did use. Fully accidental.
Without further explanation, "I wrote my reply" certainly does mean that you wrote it all. Be gracious and admit (and fix) your mistake and move on. There's no reason to be so obtuse about it.
You are 100% correct in my need to fix my error. Fixed my error by linking the site.

As far as being obtuse about it, I have no issues stating that I was wrong...
I have issue when someone calls me a LIAR when I made a simple ERROR.

There is a distinct difference between an error and lying about something.
I made a mistake out my not clearly citing where I got a small portion of my post.
I think it is clear when I was citing multiple cases, statutes, rule/regulations, etc that I had more than just one singular source.
It is within reason that I did not recognize that I missed a cite:
@stealth2
I am not sure what you are saying here
I think it is within reason that the question from @stealth2 did not directly point out what he was asking:
Please cite your sources. The person/people who wrote what you posted in your reply to me (i.e. not you - I found it elsewhere) deserves attribution.
I think it is reasonable that I was not attempting to deceive anyone and made a simple mistake.
Is there a particular phrase or quote that you are asking about?

Did you ever abuse your ex wife? How about your kids? Why is she saying you did?
As far as I can answer that is, at least in Texas, when filing for a divorce, a party can request that children be brought back to their county of residence (i.e. where they lived for an extended period of time).

This is exactly what I did when I filed for divorce.

On the other hand, a party can get permission from a court to keep the children in their current place if they make allegations of potential harm to the children.

This is what my ex did in her sworn affidavit to the court after she was served with divorce papers.
(the timing of all documents is all part of the court paperwork).
The court then makes a decision that the children can stay where they are at until an investigation is complete/mediation/temporary orders are in place (as far as my understanding).

To answer your question about abuse... I never abused my ex and never abused the children.
In the 16 years we were married, no abuse has gone on.
Why did she say this... I would guess to initiate the knee jerk reaction from the court that would allow her to keep the children in the county that she was staying (4 hours away).
Otherwise, she would have to bring them back to the county where we lived.
Since I was given by the court full and exclusive use of the house, she would have no place to stay.

So she made claims of abuse via sworn affidavit to the court after she was served with divorce papers.
After mediation, when she did not get what she wanted, she made a police report about abuse... (this was 5 months after she claims the abuse happen).
The police investigated and closed the case unfounded.
No arrests were made.
No restraining orders were issued.

Hope that clear up those questions.
 
Last edited:

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
Its been over 1 year since the divorce was finalized (i.e. final decree signed and entered).
I have just married and purchased a new home...

I covered the "changed in circumstance" with the marriage (and to the lesser degree, the new home) but I am not asking about that.
I am asking for specific information in regards to a "generalized" cost that one would expect to pay for a modification (average, NOT needing specialized witnesses).
I am asking for specific suggestions to ask the lawyer(s) when interviewing about the modification.
I am asking for any other suggestions from someone who has gone through this process.

Thank you
At the time of my posting, you had not stated anything about your marriage, so it's rather rude of you to be so snippy.

Your understanding of In the Interest of E.A.D.P., J.T.C.P. and C.E.P., children Appeal from 429th Judicial District Court of Collin County is flawed.

In that particular case, not only had the father moved out of his mother's home, but, more importantly, since the divorce the mother had moved out of a 1 bedroom apartment and into a motel room with the 3 children, and was on the verge of being "kicked out". The youngest had gone from using a toddler bed to a trundle bed, never having had her own real bed. And their occasionally visiting adult half brother sleeping on the floor during his visits...

In short, not only had years gone by, but the living conditions for the children had substantially changed as well. Had the mother not moved into a more precarious situation, and the stability of the children diminished, the father would have had a weaker argument. The needs of a toddler are different from the needs of a school aged child. A school aged child needs space to do homework, for example.

You have been divorced for a year. The children's needs have not changed significantly enough, and the mother has maintained her residence and support network, so they have stability in their lives.

Furthermore, you have very limited visitation, and you seem to have gotten into another relationship when the ink from the divorce decree was barely dry - your marriage is very recent. You would do well to exercise whatever visitation you have to the full extent possible, and move closer to your children.

I would strongly suggest that you consider looking into therapeutic visitation. A therapist could help you work on having a better interest with the children. Additionally, a court approved therapist's recommendations would be more credible than any "character witness" of your acquaintance.

Considering your rudeness in this forum, I am unsurprised that you have as little visitation as you do. Such an attitude might work in some places, but when I lived in Texas I found that politeness got a whole lot more mileage.
 

GeneralZod

Active Member
At the time of my posting, you had not stated anything about your marriage, so it's rather rude of you to be so snippy.

Your understanding of In the Interest of E.A.D.P., J.T.C.P. and C.E.P., children Appeal from 429th Judicial District Court of Collin County is flawed.

In that particular case, not only had the father moved out of his mother's home, but, more importantly, since the divorce the mother had moved out of a 1 bedroom apartment and into a motel room with the 3 children, and was on the verge of being "kicked out". The youngest had gone from using a toddler bed to a trundle bed, never having had her own real bed. And their occasionally visiting adult half brother sleeping on the floor during his visits...

In short, not only had years gone by, but the living conditions for the children had substantially changed as well. Had the mother not moved into a more precarious situation, and the stability of the children diminished, the father would have had a weaker argument. The needs of a toddler are different from the needs of a school aged child. A school aged child needs space to do homework, for example.

You have been divorced for a year. The children's needs have not changed significantly enough, and the mother has maintained her residence and support network, so they have stability in their lives.

Furthermore, you have very limited visitation, and you seem to have gotten into another relationship when the ink from the divorce decree was barely dry - your marriage is very recent. You would do well to exercise whatever visitation you have to the full extent possible, and move closer to your children.

I would strongly suggest that you consider looking into therapeutic visitation. A therapist could help you work on having a better interest with the children. Additionally, a court approved therapist's recommendations would be more credible than any "character witness" of your acquaintance.

Considering your rudeness in this forum, I am unsurprised that you have as little visitation as you do. Such an attitude might work in some places, but when I lived in Texas I found that politeness got a whole lot more mileage.
Thank you for your reply.
I respect the fact that you believe that I come across as "RUDE" or some would say argumentative.
Please take a moment and refer to my posts again because I seem to read things a different way.
I am getting ready to start interviewing lawyers to begin a Visitation Modification.
I am hoping to get some advice on what to look for and what to ask from people who have gone through this before.
I am also hoping to get an idea of what the (average) cost could be on Modifying visitation. (I know that there are many factors that could go into determining this but that is why I am asking for average).
The above is a quote from my original post that you answered on.
As much as I appreciate you asking about "change in circumstances", it was not a question that was originally asked.
Let's for one moment, take into consideration that "written words" do not show the inflection of the speaker.
Let's take into consideration that it is up to the reader on how (s)he reads those words, to either put a rude spin or a casual spin into the words.

If that is the case, then when I wrote:
I covered the "changed in circumstance" with the marriage (and to the lesser degree, the new home) but I am not asking about that.
I am asking for specific information in regards to a "generalized" cost that one would expect to pay for a modification (average, NOT needing specialized witnesses).
I am asking for specific suggestions to ask the lawyer(s) when interviewing about the modification.
I am asking for any other suggestions from someone who has gone through this process.

Thank you
Maybe it can be taken not in the context of being "RUDE" but rather in the context of trying to get answers to the questions I asked.
If you read on to my other posts you will find:
Thank you all for answering the posting.
I invite everyone to read this rather lengthy post (my apologies for that) and please leave a comment, amplifying information, or rebuttal.
Please know that I am not here to argue. I have no desire to do that, so if it seems that I am coming across as argumentative, it is not my intent. I am just of the mind to ask questions but I will challenge thought processes that do not make sense or I find to be wrong based on my research.
I will back up what I am saying or asking with tangible court cases, statutes, rules, or evidence when posing my opposition to something that someone has said.
I am hoping that maybe the person (or someone else who knows more than I do) can correct my thinking with more direct "evidence" (so to speak) other than the idea of "status quo" or "this is how it is normally done".
 

GeneralZod

Active Member
So I say to you that I am not trying to be "RUDE".
I only came to this open forum to ask the 3 simple questions
I am only asking if anyone who has experience in this matter can give generalized answers to (1) possible costs, (2) what to ask an attorney when sitting down with them, and (3) what to look for in an attorney. I leave it open for suggestions on things outside of those 3 questions but those are the questions I asked.

The attorney (who is accredited here in the state of Texas and knowing the rules of Texas) and I will then hash out whether or not I have a case.

As far as my reading of IN RE INTEREST OF EADP, Tex: Court of Appeals, 5th Dist. 2016
Maybe you are right... maybe I did read it wrong however, that is only one of many cases.
Please refer to what I did write in my post:
I covered the "changed in circumstance" with the marriage (and to the lesser degree, the new home) but I am not asking about that.
With that in mind, here are a few more cases that help show that "marriage" can be a change in circumstances.
In re ALE, 279 SW 3d 424 - Tex: Court of Appeals 2009
In deciding whether a material and substantial change of circumstances has occurred, a trial court is not confined to rigid or definite guidelines. See Zeifman, 212 S.W.3d at 593; In re Z.B.P., 109 S.W.3d 772, 779 (Tex.App.-Fort Worth 2003, no pet.). Instead, the court's determination is fact-specific and must be made according to the circumstances as they arise. See Zeifman, 212 S.W.3d at 593; Wright v. Wright, 610 S.W.2d 553, 555 (Tex.Civ.App.-Houston [1st Dist.] 1980, no writ). A non-comprehensive list of material 429*429 changes, as described by other courts, can include (1) marriage of one of the parties, (2) poisoning of the child's mind by one of the parties, (3) change in the home surroundings, (4) mistreatment of the child by a parent or step-parent, or (5) a parent's becoming an improper person to exercise custody. See In re Marriage of Chandler, 914 S.W.2d 252, 254 (Tex.App.-Amarillo 1996, no writ); Wright, 610 S.W.2d at 555. (emphasis added)

Zeifman v. Michels, 212 SW 3d 582 - Tex: Court of Appeals, 3rd Dist. 2006
A court's determination as to whether a material and substantial change of circumstances has occurred is not guided by rigid rules and is fact specific. In re Z.B.P., 109 S.W.3d 772, 779 (Tex.App.-Fort Worth 2003, no pet.). Evidence of a parent's subsequent marriage to another can constitute a relevant, material change of circumstances after rendition of the decree sought to be modified. In re C.Q.T.M., 25 S.W.3d 730, 735 (Tex.App.-Waco 2000, pet. denied). Likewise, change in the age of a child may constitute a material change. In re Davis, 30 S.W.3d 609, 615 (Tex.App.-Texarkana 2000, no pet.); see also Horne v. Harwell, 533 S.W.2d 450, 452 (Tex.Civ. App.-Austin 1976, writ ref'd n.r.e.). Increase in age alone is not a changed circumstance to justify modification unless changed needs are shown. E.g., Voros v. Turnage, 856 S.W.2d 759, 762 (Tex.App.-Houston [1st Dist.] 1993, writ denied); Randle v. Randle, 700 S.W.2d 314, 316-17 (Tex. App.-Houston [1st Dist.] 1985, no writ).

@not2cleverRed
To further answer your question, I can tell you this.
I was granted full and exclusive use of the marital home, which was later sold and split the proceeds.
I have since purchased another home (rooms for each of the children).
The current situation of the children is that they share 1 bedroom with their mother.
My son (9 years old) currently sleeps in a full bed with my ex, while my daughter (younger) sleeps on the floor.

So I stand by my writing... to a lesser extent, the purchase of a home.

As far as your posting that you are not surprised as to the time I received, I find it fascinating that you would post something like that based on what you perceived in text.
I AM NOT SURE if you are a lawyer, and if you are, if you are able practice in Texas, but I am sure that you know (as well as I do... and I am NOT a lawyer), that even the appeals courts give the fact that "inflections", "mannerisms", "personality", and any other aspects associated with common discussion cannot gained through written word.
Therefore, the appeals courts always give discretion to the trial judge because (s)he was able to witness the parties in their testimony.

There is a distinct difference between "associating intent" to written words (i.e. saying that a person comes across as snarky, rude, arrogant, or other) and calling someone a "liar" in written form (a direct attack that is not inferred).

Thank you again for your post.
I hope that you take a moment and re-read all that was written to put it in some sort of context.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I only came to this open forum to ask the 3 simple questions
I am only asking if anyone who has experience in this matter can give generalized answers to (1) possible costs, (2) what to ask an attorney when sitting down with them, and (3) what to look for in an attorney. I leave it open for suggestions on things outside of those 3 questions but those are the questions I asked.
Ummm....no.
In your original post, the last statement you made was this:

If anyone has any information or suggestions, please respond.
(Emphasis added)

So, you DID ask for more than just those three questions.
 
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