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CJane

Senior Member
And you haven't called the police yet...why?
Because in Missouri the cops would laugh at him? So would CPS.

It's legal in Missouri for anyone acting 'in loco parentis' (teachers, step-parents, coaches, whoever) to spank a child.

Sec. 210.110. [Ci.] Force justified if by parent/guardian/other person with care and supervision of minor if- -- Person believes force necessary to promote welfare of minor, and -- Force used is not designed to cause or believed to create a substantial risk of causing death, serious physical injury, disfigurement, extreme pain, or extreme emotional distress. Sec. 563.061.[Cr.]
For the record, it wouldn't be illegal in KS either:

Abuse includes cruel and inhuman corporal punishment. Sec. 21-3609.[Cr.]
OP has a better than even shot of having the order modified to include a 'no corporal punishment by ANYONE clause. But a not-so-good chance of saying it's ok for MOM to hit the kid, but no one else.
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
I know it may seem like that but I just don't want my daughter to miss school unless she absolutly needs to. I hope you do understand my point. So the only way to add something into the parenting plan is when she agrees to it. I don't think it should be entirely up to her, and if it is a good stipulation than I don't see a problem with it. Just like I have in the revised parenting plan that only natural parents shall do corporal punishment. My ex lets her boyfriend spank my daughter and if I hear of that again will I have a good chance of abuse? He spanks her with a paddle not just his hand. It just makes me so mad even thinking about that.
Look..you have to understand what a judge has the power to order, and what a judge doesn't have the power to order. You also have to understand that even if a judge has the power to order something, there are many things that a judge will NOT order.

Mom has the right to do whatever she likes on her parenting time, as long as it does not cause demonstrable, provable harm to the child. You have the right to do whatever you like on your parenting time, as long as it does not cause demonstrable, provable harm to the child.

A judge will not put something into the parenting plan over the objection of the other parent, that is a normal parenting issue, unless demonstrable harm has been proven. For a judge to do otherwise, would be a violation of the parent's constitutional rights.

So, if your child has excessive absences from school (way over the school's allowable amount for the year) and is doing poorly in school as a result, (demonstrable harm) then the judge would have the power to make an order such as you would like. However, if your child does not have excessive absences, and is not doing poorly as a result of absences, then the judge does not have the authority to violate mom's constitutional rights.

The spanking by the boyfriend could be another issue, but as CJane has pointed out, it apparently is not defined as abuse by MO or KS, therefore you may not get anywhere with that. However, it is possible sometimes, to get a judge to order that discipline can only be administered by one of the parents. However, that would apply to you as well. If you can get a judge to prohibit mom's significant others from ever administering discipline, then any significant other of yours, would not be able to administer discipline as well. I am not however talking about just spanking, I am talking about ALL discipline.

I will add that I would also be livid if my ex's significant other had spanking my child, particularly with a paddle, and would probably have taken steps to ensure that couldn't happen in the future. However, I would have also been realistic about my prospects for success, and would have realized that I might not succeed in my goal.

However, the school thing is trivial and micromanaging at this point.
 
My Ex wanted a review on Child Support so this is the issue. I provided my lawyer with my income info and she provided hers to her lawyer. My lawyer, my ex and her lawyer had a short meeting last Friday and I just got a letter from my lawyer saying that my ex`s lawyer made a complaint saying that I am capable of earning more than what I make. I started with a Contractor and so I am now considered a independent contractor and be provided with a 1099. Just because I have made more in the past but that is irrelavant. What I am doing now is a good oppurtunity and will be making more money after the 18 months. What can her lawyer really make out of this? I pay my child support like I am supposed to so just because her hours got cut back and now only getting 30 hours a week. She wants me to pay more. Even if my child support gets lowered I will make sure my daughter has good clothing, shoes and school money for lunches and such. She will not go with out. I do have 2 other children with my fiance so on the child support worksheet we will have the multiple family application type thing. My 2 children aren`t on the present support order. We were paying her for insurance and she no longer has health insurance because of my ex is now considered part time, so I will personally take out a policy for my daughter. There is no daycare costs. Do you think that they make me get another job? I don`t see that happening but just thought I would ask you all here.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
My Ex wanted a review on Child Support so this is the issue. I provided my lawyer with my income info and she provided hers to her lawyer. My lawyer, my ex and her lawyer had a short meeting last Friday and I just got a letter from my lawyer saying that my ex`s lawyer made a complaint saying that I am capable of earning more than what I make. I started with a Contractor and so I am now considered a independent contractor and be provided with a 1099. Just because I have made more in the past but that is irrelavant. What I am doing now is a good oppurtunity and will be making more money after the 18 months. What can her lawyer really make out of this? I pay my child support like I am supposed to so just because her hours got cut back and now only getting 30 hours a week. She wants me to pay more. Even if my child support gets lowered I will make sure my daughter has good clothing, shoes and school money for lunches and such. She will not go with out. I do have 2 other children with my fiance so on the child support worksheet we will have the multiple family application type thing. My 2 children aren`t on the present support order. We were paying her for insurance and she no longer has health insurance because of my ex is now considered part time, so I will personally take out a policy for my daughter. There is no daycare costs. Do you think that they make me get another job? I don`t see that happening but just thought I would ask you all here.
The court can't/won't make you get a different job, but the court can impute a higher salary to you if the judge believes that you are underemployed.
 

CJane

Senior Member
If her attorney can show that you are capable of making significantly more than you are right now - because you have a history of making significantly more money, and because jobs at your previous level are available in your area - then you can expect THAT income to be used to determine your child support. Whether or not this seems fair to you/your 'new family' is really irrelevant. So is whether or not this 'forces' you to get a second job.

Your 'new family' might figure in to the new calculations under some circumstances - but usually the credit given for subsequent children is extremely minor (in my case, we're talking about a difference of about $12/month) and is applied rather sporadically depending on who is asking for the modification.

Child support is RARELY lowered. At that point, it becomes a 'best-interests of the children' issue - and it's very rarely seen as in the children's best interests to detrimentally affect their standard of living because of a choice their parent made. Now, I say choice because you didn't say you were laid off or your industry collapsed or anything else.

You also didn't answer what part of KS you're in. It might make a difference.
 
If her attorney can show that you are capable of making significantly more than you are right now - because you have a history of making significantly more money, and because jobs at your previous level are available in your area - then you can expect THAT income to be used to determine your child support. Whether or not this seems fair to you/your 'new family' is really irrelevant. So is whether or not this 'forces' you to get a second job.
The most I have made was an average of $14 and now making $10 due to the type of construction industry I was doing was not going well so the work I had to do was not getting me by.

Your 'new family' might figure in to the new calculations under some circumstances - but usually the credit given for subsequent children is extremely minor (in my case, we're talking about a difference of about $12/month) and is applied rather sporadically depending on who is asking for the modification.
My ex is asking for the modification. Getting a credit is not one of my concerns. Whatever she is entitled to get is fine and I have never complained of supporting my daughter.

Child support is RARELY lowered. At that point, it becomes a 'best-interests of the children' issue - and it's very rarely seen as in the children's best interests to detrimentally affect their standard of living because of a choice their parent made. Now, I say choice because you didn't say you were laid off or your industry collapsed or anything else.
I was never laid off, the work that was there was barely anything and plus driving the distance I had to get to the jobs was pointless becasue of gas and only half days of work. So I decided to get into something a little different.

You also didn't answer what part of KS you're in. It might make a difference.
South of Olathe--Or do you need county that the decree is out of?
 
While I wait for my ex to agree on the parenting plan modification that I proposed. I told her the only way I will communicate with her is through email. Now in the past my fiance has done most of the communication with her because her and I just don`t get along at all. We have gone through mediation and I just don`t have good luck when we speak over the phone so I told her that email is the best. When I send her emails to see if she will agree what I would like done with the parenting plan modification she send back **** I will only talk to you over the phone... I wouldn't mind talking on the phone but honestly if she doesn't get her way they she either hangs up or yells.. And I will not go through that kinda stress... Nothing at all gets solved... She thinks its my fiance who is sending the emails which is not true... I have been waiting over 2 months to see how she would like to proceed with the modification either make an agreement and keep it out of court (besides filing it) or go to court and listen to the judge. It hasn't been changed ever and my daughter is 8.. Location has changed along with other things... Should I go ahead and file the Motion to Modify? What does everyone think about the email issue?
 

CJane

Senior Member
South of Olathe--Or do you need county that the decree is out of?
No. But you both being in the same metro area is going to play here too. Mom would likely be ordered to meet you 1/2 way for visitation... but it's unlikely she'd have to do all of the transportation.

You need to decide EXACTLY what you really want to have happen.

Custody is NOT going to change.
At this point, MOM is NOT going to be penalized for moving because your lack of action will be seen as tacit agreement.
Child support will likely NOT be lowered, and may even increase.

You could certainly find a job making significantly more than $10/hour. How you're raising ONE kid on that salary is beyond me anyway. Consider relocation so your commute would be shorter, housing less expensive, etc.

This is very likely not a battle you want to wage in court.
 

CJane

Senior Member
While I wait for my ex to agree on the parenting plan modification that I proposed. I told her the only way I will communicate with her is through email. Now in the past my fiance has done most of the communication with her because her and I just don`t get along at all.
This was an EXCEEDINGLY BAD IDEA. Do NOT allow your fiance to communicate w/MOM about parenting decisions EVER.

We have gone through mediation and I just don`t have good luck when we speak over the phone so I told her that email is the best. When I send her emails to see if she will agree what I would like done with the parenting plan modification she send back **** I will only talk to you over the phone... I wouldn't mind talking on the phone but honestly if she doesn't get her way they she either hangs up or yells.. And I will not go through that kinda stress... Nothing at all gets solved... She thinks its my fiance who is sending the emails which is not true...
Well of course she does! That's YOUR fault.

I have been waiting over 2 months to see how she would like to proceed with the modification either make an agreement and keep it out of court (besides filing it) or go to court and listen to the judge. It hasn't been changed ever and my daughter is 8.. Location has changed along with other things...
What other things? Because the location changing isn't necessarily significant enough to change the parenting plan. ESPECIALLY since it's not recent.

Should I go ahead and file the Motion to Modify? What does everyone think about the email issue?
Again, you need to figure out WHAT you want to change and WHY.

Regarding communications, I think it's asinine to always insist upon email/writing. Have a freaking conversation. Follow that up w/an email to confirm what was said. Example: "Per our telephone conversation re: Basketball practice: It's my understanding that Princess has practice on Wednesday nights at 7 and they'll be held at the community center. Thanks so much for the update. If I misunderstood any of the information, please clarify."

Easy peasy.
 

cabanks27

Member
Regarding communications, I think it's asinine to always insist upon email/writing. Have a freaking conversation. Follow that up w/an email to confirm what was said. Example: "Per our telephone conversation re: Basketball practice: It's my understanding that Princess has practice on Wednesday nights at 7 and they'll be held at the community center. Thanks so much for the update. If I misunderstood any of the information, please clarify."

Easy peasy.
Amen. I have this same issue with my ex and it is inconvenient and immature. He CCs his attorney and his new girlfriend on EVERY email, and refuses to answer the phone when I call. He even had his attorney send my attorney a letter requesting that I not text message him EVER. Grow up and communicate!
 

CJane

Senior Member
Amen. I have this same issue with my ex and it is inconvenient and immature. He CCs his attorney and his new girlfriend on EVERY email, and refuses to answer the phone when I call. He even had his attorney send my attorney a letter requesting that I not text message him EVER. Grow up and communicate!
Mine uses actual letters. Sometimes 8 in a 2-week period. Expects 'a written response including discussion points' within a couple of days of each letter.

This in spite of an order that states we're to communicate by telephone ONLY.

:rolleyes:

Whatcha gonna do? If they were capable of behaving like grown-ups, none of us would be here.
 

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