Watch out for fake red light camera tickets, in California

[Heather2]

Your construction

Smells of corruption

I manipulate to recreate

This air to ground saga

Gotta launder my karma



I said hallelujah to the sixteen loyal fans

Youll get down on your mutha****in' knees

And it's time for your sickness again

Come on and tell me what you need

Tell me what is making you bleed

We got two more minutes and

We gonna cut to what you need

So one of six so tell me

One do you want to live

And one of seven tell me

Is it time for your mutha****in' ass to give

Tell me is it time to get down on your mutha****in' knees

Tell me is it time to get down



I'm blown to the maxim

Two hemispheres battlin'

I'm blown to the maxim

Two hemispheres battlin'

Suckin' up, one last breath

Take a drag off of death



Hey Mr. Policeman

Is it time for getting away

Is it time for driving down the mother ****in' road

And running from your ass today

Now tell me if do you agree

Or tell me if I'm makin you bleed

I got a few more minutes and

I'm gonna cut to what you need

So one of six so tell me

One do you want to live

And one of seven tell me

Is it time for your mutha****in' ass to give

Tell me is it time to get down on your mutha****in' knees

Tell me is it time to get down



Got a revolution behind my eyes

We got to get up and organize

Got a revolution behind my eyes

We got to get up and organize

Got a revolution behind my eyes

We got to get up and organize

You want a revolution behind your eyes

We got to get up and organize



Come on baby tell me

Yes we aim to please

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love that song.

 

[Let the DJ try]

Zakk Wylde Mother Mary lyrics
I feel my wheels have come undone
I've fallen off my tracks
Lord, I need your guiding hand
If I'm to make it back
Oh, make it back, back, back..


All My Life
Everything's been after me
All My Life
I just refused to see
Take me in from the storm
Come And Rescue Me
Under the wings of mother mary

Doing wrong is all you know
In the end
Do you know where you go?
You can't keep doing what you do
Sooner or later
It all comes back to you, you, you ,you...

Ohhhhhh

All My Life
Everything's been after me
All My Life
I just refused to see
Take me in from the storm
Come And Rescue Me
Under the wings of mother Mary

 

[trashtalk]

Entering on yellow OK; blocking the box not OK; short greens

My basic question still is, how can an officer (properly) ticket you for being IN the intersection when the light goes red. The law seems to be very clear -it only prohibits entering (crossing the limit line) AFTER the signal is red.

There is a separate section, a fairly recent one, against "blocking the box". That is, if the traffic is jammed up and you cannot clear the intersection because of the traffic, you will get a ticket regardless of whether you entered the intersection on red, yellow, or green.

NOCOL, you are correct that crossing the limit line under green or yellow is legal even if you take another second or two to clear the intersection. That's the law. But if you take 10 seconds to clear, be prepared to get a ticket.

Another poster mentioned short yellows. I'm pretty sure all the yellows meet spec these days. HOWEVER, there are some deceptively short greens in some cases, and there is no law against that.

For example, people expect a modern traffic light to allow all or nearly all the left turn traffic through. An uncharacteristically short green can surprise drivers, some of whom will make the wrong split-second decision, generating a ton of revenue for the city.

Edited to add CVC text:

22526. (a) Notwithstanding any official traffic control signal indication to proceed, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter an intersection or marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection or marked crosswalk to accommodate the vehicle driven without obstructing the through passage of vehicles from either side.

and:

(e) A violation of this section is not a violation of a law relating to the safe operation of vehicles and is the following:

(1) A stopping violation when a notice to appear has been issued by a peace officer described in Section 830.1 or 830.2 of the Penal Code.

(2) A parking violation when a notice of parking violation is issued by a person, other than a peace officer described in paragraph (1), who is authorized to enforce parking statutes and regulations.


Fascinating that the same act can earn you either a parking ticket or a moving violation. I guess it's similar for double parking.

 

[NotACopOrLawyer]

Still awaiting input from LEO

On 3-10 CdwJava posted, in this thread:

"Maybe the camera can't get you for being in the intersection when the light turns, but an officer can.

- Carl"

I am hoping he will explain how an officer can (legally) cite in this instance.

NACOL

 

[trashtalk]

CAN vs. MAY

Carl is correct: the officer can give you a ticket even if you enter on green or yellow.

You are also correct: the officer cannot LEGALLY give you a ticket if you enter on green or yellow. That is, unless you block the box, meaning that you are stuck in the intersection and cannot promptly clear it.

There is no legal restriction preventing an officer from giving you a ticket just because he thinks you need an attitude adjustment. If I were an officer, I would be tempted to do just that from time to time. I imagine that after one has been a patrolman for many years and seen all the carnage, one would begin to feel that it is correct to issue invalid tickets to punish aggressive drivers.

 

[CdwJava]

Well, there is this wonderful little bit of California Vehicle Code:

22526. (a) Notwithstanding any official traffic control signal
indication to proceed, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter an
intersection or marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on
the other side of the intersection or marked crosswalk to accommodate
the vehicle driven without obstructing the through passage of
vehicles from either side.
(b) A driver of a vehicle which is making a turn at an
intersection who is facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow
signal shall not enter the intersection or marked crosswalk unless
there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection or
marked crosswalk to accommodate the vehicle driven without
obstructing the through passage of vehicles from either side.

I hope that clarifies the issue. Yes, someone can be cited for being within the intersection when he/she is unable to complete their turn or cross the intersection without obstructing traffic. And keep in mind that there does not have to be actual traffic obstructed, only that the position of the vehicle in the intersection could impede such lawful traffic.

Thus, the "myth" that someone simply has to get their bumper over the limit line before the light turns red is just that - a myth.

Is this a clear cut section? Nope. Some county courts here will define it broadly, while others will require some pretty heinous violations. Personally, I have cited and seen it cited only for those serious incidents where Johnny Joe Driver is sitting in the middle of the intersection behind a line of traffic blocking the cross traffic ... his argument, "I crossed the line before it turned red" won't work.

- Carl

 

[CdwJava]

Carl is correct: the officer can give you a ticket even if you enter on green or yellow.

You are also correct: the officer cannot LEGALLY give you a ticket if you enter on green or yellow. That is, unless you block the box, meaning that you are stuck in the intersection and cannot promptly clear it.

There is no legal restriction preventing an officer from giving you a ticket just because he thinks you need an attitude adjustment. If I were an officer, I would be tempted to do just that from time to time. I imagine that after one has been a patrolman for many years and seen all the carnage, one would begin to feel that it is correct to issue invalid tickets to punish aggressive drivers.

Fortunately, under many circumstances, the law DOES permit us to issue a citation for the violation. So commiting a crime by knowingly conducting a false and unlawful detention never even has to enter into the equation.

- Carl

 

[trashtalk]

Is this a clear cut section? Nope. Some county courts here will define it broadly, while others will require some pretty heinous violations. Personally, I have cited and seen it cited only for those serious incidents where Johnny Joe Driver is sitting in the middle of the intersection behind a line of traffic blocking the cross traffic ... his argument, "I crossed the line before it turned red" won't work.

Thanks for your post, Carl. The "blocking the box" law may not be clear, but your post was a model of clarity.

 

[NotACopOrLawyer]

..and soon, automated speeding tickets too!

I just found out that the California legislature has a bill, SB 466, which will allow automated speed camera tickets. You can see details about how to fight it, on the website at:
http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsjoin.htm

NACOL

 

[seniorjudge]

I just found out that the California legislature has a bill, SB 466, which will allow automated speed camera tickets.

Michael Jackson should start driving alone....

 

[CdwJava]

I just found out that the California legislature has a bill, SB 466, which will allow automated speed camera tickets.

Cool! But ... it is not new information.

Now all we need is the legislation that allows the state to actually go after scofflaws who run those red lights and speed on camera. It's not coming soon, but it IS going to come ... when the legislature discovers that the camera enforcement cannot be done under current law, they will almost certainly pass legislation to enable it.

We shall see.

- Carl

 

[ylen13]

guess time to develop a spray that will block cameras from taking picture.

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: guess time to develop a spray that will block cameras from taking picture.

A: It's already out. It's called "black spray paint." But I can't tell you where to get it...it's a secret.

 

[CdwJava]

guess time to develop a spray that will block cameras from taking picture.

We call that vandalism ...it's a crime ... more serious than the traffic ticket, too.

- Carl

 

[ylen13]

Q: guess time to develop a spray that will block cameras from taking picture.

A: It's already out. It's called "black spray paint." But I can't tell you where to get it...it's a secret.

yes i read about it on latimes.com (not sure if that's correct name) and don't think it will be hard to find it.

edit:it's called " PhotoBlocker " link