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Whistleblower SOL and contingency fees

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Bill Johns

Junior Member
Well this has certainly been an educational experience, except I don't understand anything I've learned. It seems my case has several problems in the eyes of justice.

1) nobody can say if a law was actually broken. Although the whistleblower statute (seems to) state that a report must only be in good faith and can be of a violation or suspected violation, according to multiple employment lawyers the law must have been broken to avoid dismissal. But the violated statute has never been tested, there are no court rulings on it. Although the language can be construed as somewhat ambiguous by those who would benefit from it, the intent seems clear. The state may have exploited a possible loophole. (Alas, I'll again have to decline identifying the statute publicly, as doing so would identify me). Also I get the sense that the law isn't "important" enough. Nobody was at risk of being killed or injured, nobody was swindling millions of dollars.

2) although there is nothing in the whistleblower statute about temporal relation of the reaction to the protected action, judges (or so I'm told) require near proximity. Although there is no doubt that the adverse actions are linked to the report of (suspected) violation, the adverse actions that can be definitely linked came many weeks later. Many other adverse actions that can't be linked definitely to my reports occurred in much closer proximity, but those don't seem to matter. I don't understand this reasoning-if later adverse reactions can be linked to the protected activity it seems rather likely earlier actions are too.

3) apparently plaintiffs must be careful to complain about violations that have severe adverse effects on themselves with utmost courtesy (perhaps present it with a bouquet of flowers), otherwise they can be accused of misbehavior by the employer that could outweigh their protected activity in the eyes of judges (so I'm told).

4) its too much trouble or perhaps too expensive to disprove the easily falsifiable reasons given for the adverse actions. Given how the judges are (apparently) thinking on other aspects, it may be pointless anyway.

5) the employer performed one action that was superficially beneficial to me shortly after after one of my reports, which in the mind of judges (so I'm told) will nullify the adverse actions that are definitely linked to the my reports. But there are selfish reasons they performed that superficially beneficial action. They benefited from it far more than I did.

The bald fact that I was severely retaliated against for reporting suspected violations doesn't seem to matter much here.
 


Dandy Don

Senior Member
You need to educate yourself by talking to another whistleblower or ask the attorneys you interview with: "What are the types of expenses that will be incurred during the course of this legal action?" so that you can get a better understanding of what it costs an attorney to defend you. No one wants to go into debt if you eventually lose your case.
 

Bill Johns

Junior Member
You need to educate yourself by talking to another whistleblower or ask the attorneys you interview with: "What are the types of expenses that will be incurred during the course of this legal action?" so that you can get a better understanding of what it costs an attorney to defend you. No one wants to go into debt if you eventually lose your case.
I have been given quotes so I know the potential cost but I'm not going to pay an attorney anything if they don't think they can win. I think they can win because I know I was retaliated against for blowing the whistle. But that's too simple-headed I guess. They all seem to think that in the eyes of judges these other matters that pertain to the case (which are minor details to me) are more important than the whistleblower violation itself. They may be right, but it still doesn't make sense to me. The law is supposed to protect people who do what I did and it isn't.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
And you're expecting a message board to do...what?

Particularly since you're reluctant to provide us with any details?
 

quincy

Senior Member
I have been given quotes so I know the potential cost but I'm not going to pay an attorney anything if they don't think they can win. I think they can win because I know I was retaliated against for blowing the whistle. But that's too simple-headed I guess. They all seem to think that in the eyes of judges these other matters that pertain to the case (which are minor details to me) are more important than the whistleblower violation itself. They may be right, but it still doesn't make sense to me. The law is supposed to protect people who do what I did and it isn't.
If you are not willing to invest in a legal action that you have the possibility of losing, it will be hard to interest any attorney. An attorney wants to win cases (whatever the definition of win happens to be in any one case) but they will be reluctant to take on as a client anyone who wants guarantees. A good attorney knows there are never guarantees.
 

Bill Johns

Junior Member
And you're expecting a message board to do...what?

Particularly since you're reluctant to provide us with any details?
Tell you what, since you keep wanting me to reveal identifying information about myself and my legal matter on a public website. If you PM me and identify yourself so I can verify that you're a plaintiff-only employment attorney licensed to practice in my state, I'll tell you the statute and what transpired if you tell me yes or no (no "maybe's" or "I don't knows" allowed..I already have some of those and more won't help) whether the statute was violated and provide case numbers that prove it. Maybe you can find something that the other attorneys I've paid to look for it can't find. Deal?

Then maybe you will explain why it even matters for the purpose of whistleblower law, if a good faith report of a suspected violation was made. This is what attorneys are telling me and it doesn't make sense.
 

Bill Johns

Junior Member
If you are not willing to invest in a legal action that you have the possibility of losing, it will be hard to interest any attorney. An attorney wants to win cases (whatever the definition of win happens to be in any one case) but they will be reluctant to take on as a client anyone who wants guarantees. A good attorney knows there are never guarantees.
I am not expecting guarantees, I do want someone who believes the case can be won (obviously!) and shows a willingness to work to win it. Of course the defendant is going to make up excuses to defend themselves! Of course they are going say see here, we did this nice little thing for him so therefore we are clean! That's why I need a lawyer to tear holes in their lies. What I'm getting is mostly concessions of near-certain defeat because they believe judges are peevish creatures who don't much care for the actual law. If that view is correct then there is a fundamental dysfunction or corruption that I'm never going to overcome no matter how much I pay.

Really, why should it matter when the retaliation occurred if you can prove it was caused by the whistle blowing? Why do we need to show that law was broken if statute and case law clearly says it must only be a good faith report of a suspected violation? Why does it matter if a whistle blower is irritated by the violation, and says so? These are petty obfuscations that any lawyer worth a bag of peanuts should be able to bat aside, unless judges really are as disinterested in the law as they are being portrayed.
 

quincy

Senior Member
I am not expecting guarantees, I do want someone who believes the case can be won (obviously!) and shows a willingness to work to win it. Of course the defendant is going to make up excuses to defend themselves! Of course they are going say see here, we did this nice little thing for him so therefore we are clean! That's why I need a lawyer to tear holes in their lies. What I'm getting is mostly concessions of near-certain defeat because they believe judges are peevish creatures who don't much care for the actual law. If that view is correct then there is a fundamental dysfunction or corruption that I'm never going to overcome no matter how much I pay.

Really, why should it matter when the retaliation occurred if you can prove it was caused by the whistle blowing? Why do we need to show that law was broken if statute and case law clearly says it must only be a good faith report of a suspected violation? Why does it matter if a whistle blower is irritated by the violation, and says so? These are petty obfuscations that any lawyer worth a bag of peanuts should be able to bat aside, unless judges really are as disinterested in the law as they are being portrayed.
Most judges are interested in the law - which is why they chose a legal career instead of becoming teachers or fire fighters.

I suspect that your retaliation claim is just not one seen as worth the time and effort of litigating. Not all violations of the law will be.

Good luck.
 

Bill Johns

Junior Member
Most judges are interested in the law - which is why they chose a legal career instead of becoming teachers or fire fighters.

I suspect that your retaliation claim is just not one seen as worth the time and effort of litigating. Not all violations of the law will be.

Good luck.
If they are interested in the law, why are they (supposedly) injecting requirements like temporal proximity that aren't in the law? Why do easily disproven pretexts become such odious obstacles? Why does one beneficial action equal or outweigh 10 adverse ones?

Something is not right here. I don't know if its that judges are really this difficult or that attorneys are trying to make it sound much harder than it is so they can charge more, or because they simply can't tolerate any risk of losing.

I know attorneys don't like to lose and they seem to want a slam-dunk. They are making what seem like molehills to me out to be mountains. I don't care if I lose the case as long as the attorney fights hard. I care a lot more about not trying. I'm starting to think that attorneys best interests and my own best interests are not compatible on this issue.
 

quincy

Senior Member
If they are interested in the law, why are they (supposedly) injecting requirements like temporal proximity that aren't in the law? Why do easily disproven pretexts become such odious obstacles? Why does one beneficial action equal or outweigh 10 adverse ones?

Something is not right here. I don't know if its that judges are really this difficult or that attorneys are trying to make it sound much harder than it is so they can charge more, or because they simply can't tolerate any risk of losing.

I know attorneys don't like to lose and they seem to want a slam-dunk. They are making what seem like molehills to me out to be mountains. I don't care if I lose the case as long as the attorney fights hard. I care a lot more about not trying. I'm starting to think that attorneys best interests and my own best interests are not compatible on this issue.
I don't know what is going on in your situation. I doubt if blame can be placed on all attorneys and all judges, though.
 
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Bill Johns

Junior Member
I don't know what is going on in your situation. I doubt if blame can be placed on all attorneys and all judges, though.
There are challenges to overcome with the case but I don't see any of them altering the basic fact of retaliation for illegal reasons. I'm not afraid of any challenges and pretexts because I know the facts and believe a jury will agree with me. I AM fearful of arbitrary and capricious judges. I would be inclined to think those characterizations are unfair, except that I've experienced enough pure incompetence and corruption in my dealings with other state officials who are in a position to act on this matter that I can't rule it out. As a friend of mine said, cynically, "Do the facts really matter?"
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
I don't particularly want you to reveal any details. I've told you twice that you shouldn't reveal any details you don't want to - this is the third time.

However, you don't seem to be willing or able to understand that you are trying to make something black and white when there are a great many shades of grey. DETAILS MATTER. It's not as simple as you are trying to make it. If we don't know the details, we can't help you. The possibility even exists that (gasp) you are wrong about what the law says - or even what constitutes whistleblowing and/or retaliation. Somehow, I think that's a bit more likely than that all the judges and attorneys are conspiring against you. But I know you don't want to hear that. You know it all, and we should be able to give you black and white answers to non-questions.

Since you don't want to reveal details, we can't help you. THAT is simple.
 

quincy

Senior Member
There are challenges to overcome with the case but I don't see any of them altering the basic fact of retaliation for illegal reasons. I'm not afraid of any challenges and pretexts because I know the facts and believe a jury will agree with me. I AM fearful of arbitrary and capricious judges. I would be inclined to think those characterizations are unfair, except that I've experienced enough pure incompetence and corruption in my dealings with other state officials who are in a position to act on this matter that I can't rule it out. As a friend of mine said, cynically, "Do the facts really matter?"
I have run across my share of idiots in my life but this has never led me to the conclusion that all people are idiots. I do not think making generalizations is smart.

Good luck.
 

Bill Johns

Junior Member
I don't particularly want you to reveal any details. I've told you twice that you shouldn't reveal any details you don't want to - this is the third time.

However, you don't seem to be willing or able to understand that you are trying to make something black and white when there are a great many shades of grey. DETAILS MATTER. It's not as simple as you are trying to make it. If we don't know the details, we can't help you. The possibility even exists that (gasp) you are wrong about what the law says - or even what constitutes whistleblowing and/or retaliation. Somehow, I think that's a bit more likely than that all the judges and attorneys are conspiring against you. But I know you don't want to hear that. You know it all, and we should be able to give you black and white answers to non-questions.

Since you don't want to reveal details, we can't help you. THAT is simple.
I've provided multiple questions in post #37 and #39 which provide opportunities to respond with legal feedback, suggestions or advice but instead you've chosen to criticise me and the lack of detail in my posts (again).

The statute that I believe was violated is unique to my case. Identifying the statute identifies me.

At least one of the 2 major retaliatory actions is unique to my case. I've not found a single person, attorney or public agency who can recall this action being taken against anyone except me. Identifying the action would identify me. I'm not going to identify myself in a public forum.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Fine, then don't. But in that case, don't expect us to be able to respond.
 

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