13 year old son doesn't want to visit Dad

[Tercr6]

By reading the post & reading some on NPD. I beleive we need to separate Legal Entitlements & Emotional Feelings,as I beleive the courts have already done.
Unless there is " A Change of Circumstances " that would be legaly " In the best interest of the child", i beleive the father will continue his visits.
The mother claim Physical Abuse in the very early age of the child,nothing since or now.
The mother claims emotional abuse,by the father ,plus the posters assume emotional harm being done to the child ),yet the child is in no way ,or as we know of ,ever been in treatment for Emotional Disturbances.
While a person with NPD suffers from different Mental disturbances with this "illness", it is not legal sufficiant Denie the parent of visitation rights.

Example:would a Parinoid Schizophranic with Homosidal & suisidal Ideations,be denied visitations solely on his Ideations? NO

So,why should a Parent be denied visitation soley on his diagnosis,and "unnormal " veiw of life ?
From my reading on NPD this Parent,even though the other disaproves of his lifestyle & relation w/ the child, could accuallity grandios hisself by the mear fact he has accoplished visitations,and a relationship with the child,and is no harm to the child.
Life is full of disagreements,but the courts look at the legal aspects,and the best interest of the child/

If the child 'is-not" being gravely Emotionally harmed by visitations with the NPD parent,( wich is obvious from lack of therapy),Then it IS in the best interest of the child at this time,to have a relationship w/ both Parents,and if the NPD parent is unable "due to his illness wich he has no control", to Normal guide the child in reallity,maybe the other parent should stay"mute" ,or try explaining as a prior poster suggested,his father has an illness,and he can't help the way he acts,and help the child deal with it for the childs' Emotional stability,unless or until "Circumstances Change".

 

[mammyelizabeth]

I am very appreciative of the replies that I've received, specifically the support from those who have some understanding of NPD. Since yesterday, I have been doing quite a bit of research on NPD and its effects on victims - especially children. I certainly am astute enough to know the difference between opinion and legal advice, and appreciate both. I am aware that if I'm not careful, the court could remove me from the picture althogether, and know how devastating that would be for my son. I think I might try professional pyschological help again, but this time go at from the angle of dealing with an NPD parent, not just a difficult and/or abusive parent. In all of my research, one thing that seems to ring true is that those not close to this kind of situation can never really understand what is going on. Perhaps if I can find a professional with personal experience with NPD, my son could have a stronger ally. Thanks, again, for all of the input.
Also, one more thing- I think I mentioned my son's fear of his father (to those of you who are only hearing one side of the story, add this to it). I know my son, and I know my ex - I believe the fear is real and unless I can assure my son that he won't have to experience his father's punishment, whatever it might be, he is reticent to talk to anyone. This man is very manipulative and clever, and my son knows it to be true. No one knows but the child what he has been going through, but I believe him.

 

[hmmbrdzz]

Hi mammyelizabeth. I'm glad you didn't take my comments as personally or professionally irresponsible. I'm a psych nurse and have a good understanding of what you're up against with respect to an NPD father, and while I have a healthy respect for the courts I also understand they make mistakes -- and even if they haven't so far, things sometimes change and put the child at risk.

I've had the pleasure of dealing with some diagnosed NPD, and out of literally 100's of mentally ill diagnosed prisoners I administered psych meds and nursing care to in my job, the NPD's were the most memorable to me because there were very few of them, yet the hallmark of their illness is almost indistinguishable from antisocial personality disorder.

I think it's great you believe your son and have not minimized what his fears regarding abuse. What you have stated about his being reticent to talk about it if he doesn't feel safe is very true. One thing that struck me with one of your posts was your comment that your child had been in therapy two years ago in which the therapist recommended the child "not be forced" to talk about it. Of course it's not good to "force", but I think it's a good idea you've decided to take this issue back to therapy, and I hope you find a therapist who is specialized in child abuse and can recognize it and intervene appropriately. Not all therapists are good ones, and it's my opinion that most are lousy. I think you might consider the benefit of getting a second opinion of this situation, too, and finding a therapist you like, one whose statements you can relate to and feel confident in, and one your child likes. Hang in there.


Best of luck.


hmmbrdzz

 

[mammyelizabeth]

Thanks, again, hmmbrdzz. Your experience with therapists mirrors ours, especially the one who was appointed by and well-respected by our local court. He was a joke, to say the least, and did not even consider locking a 3-year inside of a house and leaving him for over an hour (my ex did this two visits in a row years ago) neglect. Anyway, your input has been supportive and helpful, and pretty much what I was looking for when I logged into this forum. I'll post another message if I have any luck with changing the circumstances for my son, so that maybe someone else can benefit, as well. I have found a website created by a man named Sam Vaknin who is an author who has NPD that has been very interesting and educational. I recommend it to anyone out there who thinks they may be dealing with one of these people, and some may not even know what they're dealing with.

mammyelizabeth

 

[mrseld]

13 year old doesn't want to visit dad

I live in Tennessee too and I had a problem with my daughter not wanting to go see her father when he and I had joint custody. She would cry sometimes before he would come get her and if she told him she didn't want to go, he would tell her she was going whether she wanted to or not. She would tell him on the phone she didn't want to go to his house, he'd hang up on her and come get her anyway. What finally happened with me was that my attorney told me that the "only thing that can get you out of this is a new court order modifying visitation arrangments", but I had to show that my ex was placing my child in physical or emotional harm to do so. That took me 3 years, 3 taped phone conversations, two trips to a child psychologist and over $3,000.00. It was not speedy process by any means. It would be my advice to contact an attorney, take the child to a psychologist and have them discuss and document what these visits are doing to the child on an emotional and/or physcial level. An inbiased opinion, like one from a child psychologist, can carry alot of weight in court on your behalf. But it costs money. As far a I know, there is no law in the state of Tennessee that says when a child becomes a certain age that he or she can just say "No" and not go on the visitation, although I could be wrong about that. I'm not an expert. I'm just telling you what my attorney told me. Also, when the child is 14, the judge might be more receptive to listening to what the child wants. My main point is contact an attorney. And I would talk to more than one. Some are better than others.

mrseld

 

[hannibal]

Isn't it amazing ...

whenever a 'dad' is a jerk, it is always the mother's fault. This whole notion of 'we must force the children into a relationship with someone who is obviously unstable and damaged' is just ridiculous.

My kids go once per week for six hours to 'dad's.' He fails to show roughly 50 percent of the time with no call. He doesn't feed them. He doesn't do anything with them. He doesn't buy them Christmas presents. He doesn't buy them birthday presents.

But, the court says they need to go and I cooperate even to the tune of picking them up because he refuses to drive 40 minutes both ways.

But I suppose that is my fault. He's really a warm-hearted guy just waiting to escape.

Hogwash!!!!!

 

[stealth2]

I don't think anyone said it was her fault. What people said is that unless she can convince a judge that visitation should be changed, she must abide by the order and send her son.

 

[VeronicaGia]

Re: Isn't it amazing ...

whenever a 'dad' is a jerk, it is always the mother's fault. This whole notion of 'we must force the children into a relationship with someone who is obviously unstable and damaged' is just ridiculous.

My kids go once per week for six hours to 'dad's.' He fails to show roughly 50 percent of the time with no call. He doesn't feed them. He doesn't do anything with them. He doesn't buy them Christmas presents. He doesn't buy them birthday presents.

But, the court says they need to go and I cooperate even to the tune of picking them up because he refuses to drive 40 minutes both ways.

But I suppose that is my fault. He's really a warm-hearted guy just waiting to escape.

Hogwash!!!!!

Isn't it amazing that you use the word "dad" with "jerk?" Some mothers are "jerks" too, even bigger jerks than dads sometimes. And if the woman slept with a "jerk" then that is her own fault. Just like a man who sleeps with a "jerk."

 

[hannibal]

No no no

If you read above, someone's explanation was that the child's mind had been 'poisoned.'
The only poisoning that goes on is when women stay with these vegetables

 

[hannibal]

In response to VG ...

Yes, but some people do change their lives for their own sakes and for the sakes of their children. Mistakes can't be erased, but you can turn the page.

I assume we all want the best for our kids. It's a shame that so many in the legal system don't see it that way.

Sorry that 'jerk' offends the sensitivities of some. Just gotta call a spade a spade. That's life

 

[mrseld]

Let's try to keep our eye on the ball here. This lady needs to find legal assistance to help her with her divorce and child custody issue. She asked for our opinions, not for us to rant and rave about our own problems. These "advice" treads get sidetracked all the time. While relaying our own stories is important to let people know they are not the one one going through a particular situation at the time, we need to focus just on the general question these people are asking us.

 

[hannibal]

You mean like this post

I live in Tennessee too and I had a problem with my daughter not wanting to go see her father when he and I had joint custody. She would cry sometimes before he would come get her and if she told him she didn't want to go, he would tell her she was going whether she wanted to or not. She would tell him on the phone she didn't want to go to his house, he'd hang up on her and come get her anyway. What finally happened with me was that my attorney told me that the "only thing that can get you out of this is a new court order modifying visitation arrangments", but I had to show that my ex was placing my child in physical or emotional harm to do so. That took me 3 years, 3 taped phone conversations, two trips to a child psychologist and over $3,000.00. It was not speedy process by any means. It would be my advice to contact an attorney, take the child to a psychologist and have them discuss and document what these visits are doing to the child on an emotional and/or physcial level. An inbiased opinion, like one from a child psychologist, can carry alot of weight in court on your behalf. But it costs money. As far a I know, there is no law in the state of Tennessee that says when a child becomes a certain age that he or she can just say "No" and not go on the visitation, although I could be wrong about that. I'm not an expert. I'm just telling you what my attorney told me. Also, when the child is 14, the judge might be more receptive to listening to what the child wants. My main point is contact an attorney. And I would talk to more than one. Some are better than others.

 

[stealth2]

children - I think you can quit the tit-for-tat.

 

[mrseld]

To Hannibal:

I said "ranting and raving" were unnecessary. I also said that RELAYING OUR OWN STORIES WAS IMPORTANT. I was not "ranting" in mine, only relaying my story. And this is what I mean by getting sidetracked. What does your attempt at a smart "comeback" have to do with this lady and her situation? NOTHING. You shouldn't be on a thread unless you are willing to give helpful advice. This isn't a forum to smear others. Did you read the compliance rules when you logged onto this site? Perhaps you should reread them.

And another thing I thought of......this lady needs to review every aspect of what has gone on, document everything she can remember with dates, times, places, etc. It could be very helpful if she decides to pursue more legal avenues. The more you have documented, the better. The way your child acts when he/she returns from a visit, if it interrupts their sleep habits, eating habits or if they initally act withdrawn.

 

[hannibal]

I support ...

the original poster 100 percent. I do not believe she has 'poisoned' her 13-year-old as was suggested earlier. I also do not believe she is a 'jerk' because she associated herself with one. The difference is that she separated herself from a bad situation. I support her efforts to keep her child away from that same bad situation.
We have enough career lifelong 'victims' in this society. I'm sure the dad in question feels that his own life owes him the world in return for all of the death blows it has dealt him. It's the same sociopathic behavior that runs rampant among these people.
I hope she continues to try and make life the best for her child.

Your definition of helpful and mine apparently differ.