Grandparents threatening to sue

[armouredone]

Thanks you guys. These are all from the court of appeals. I wonder how many actual cases like this get heard and not appealed.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Basically, the GPs case was originally shot down because BOTH parents filed the affidavits to not allow visitation. Then the GPs appealed because they weren't given "due process." It was denied on appeal also because Michigan considered the parents' wishes as supreme. The judges basic premise is that the GPs do NOT have The arguments for both the original suit and the appeal are listed. It sounds similar to your case, only in this one, it is the mother's parents who filed suit.

Secondly, you have some serious allegation happening with the grandpa which would bolster your claim.

The court's stance:

Indeed, our Supreme Court has specifically held that grandparents have no fundamental right to a relationship with their grandchildren.

 

[armouredone]

I JUST found out about the child abuse allegations with the gpa this past week. I have let them watch my daughter in the past (as in a couple of years ago before they started suing me left and right). Will it look bad on me that I let them watch her since he has these problems? I knew about the adult swingers things, but that was perversion with other adults and in my book a horse of a different color.

Also forgot to mention...both gma and gpa are very racist. I have a date, time and witness to gpa using the N word in referring to our president in front of my daughter. Gma doesn't want to hear the words she knows in Spanish and told my daughter that she doesn't want "a Mexican-speaking grandchild." I do not want these kinds of words used in front of my daughter, nor do I want her to think different races of people are fundamentally different. Both of them look down upon other races (we're white), and gpa uses racial slurs frequently.

These are the kinds of things that I consider "morally unfit," but I'm unsure what the law means when it refers to the moral fitness of the grandparents.

 

[frylover]

I just wanted to say that I REALLY hope you prevail on this. My stomach turned over at reading that Grandpa doesn't want to visit your child while she's at her cousins because he wants her to "play with him, not her cousins." That's just creepy.

 

[armouredone]

Hopefully the fact that they barely have a relationship with her will be enough without even having to dredge up all the sludge and dirty laundry. I'm guessing it'll all get aired out in court anyway.

 

[armouredone]

Today my daughter's father asked his parents to stop with the threats of a lawsuit. His father got in a screaming match with him and told him that we are going to be sued for sure now (threats?!?). What should we be doing as parents, if anything? Now that we have heard allegations of child molestation we don't want his father anywhere near our daughter, but would that be taken as "denial of visits," thus fueling the fire for a court order? Also, can we submit affadavits to the court BEFORE they sue?

 

[BL]

Today my daughter's father asked his parents to stop with the threats of a lawsuit. His father got in a screaming match with him and told him that we are going to be sued for sure now (threats?!?). What should we be doing as parents, if anything? Now that we have heard allegations of child molestation we don't want his father anywhere near our daughter, but would that be taken as "denial of visits," thus fueling the fire for a court order? Also, can we submit affadavits to the court BEFORE they sue?

There can be no denial of visitation rights to pursue ,if there is no order(s).

No,you can not .

 

[armouredone]

I guess I worded that poorly. I meant, would their argument bear more weight in court now that we definitely do NOT want them around our daughter?

 

[liandrajade]

What should we be doing as parents, if anything?

continue parenting your child and thats it...

Now that we have heard allegations of child molestation we don't want his father anywhere near our daughter, but would that be taken as "denial of visits," thus fueling the fire for a court order?

not necessarily, IF you get pulled into court, you must argue that you have received information of a serious nature and that you are concerned for the safety of your children. also it is legally within your rights to decide who your child can be around.

Also, can we submit affadavits to the court BEFORE they sue?[/QUOTE]

unfortunately no since there is nothing for you to do, they have to sue you for you to take action, nothing has happened yet. you cannot preemptively file something just in case they do.

get ALL your information and ducks in a row so to speak. get all your witnesses, evidence, start writing up a timeline of when and where visitation has occurred, with who and how...send me a pm if you want help...

 

[armouredone]

Update

A couple of weeks ago I emailed the grandparents. I included a link to an article written by a lawyer that outlines the trauma a gpv case brings upon a child. I then listed several facts about GPV cases that I am sure they didn't believe. My daughter's father allowed me to add his name to the bottom of the email. After the grandparents read the email my ex had to endure two shouting matches with his father in which gpa said "we'll do what we have to do to get her." At that time they showed no signs of backing down whatsoever. Feeling united by our agreement to the issue, my ex and I quit worrying about it.

Yesterday Gpa called me and very wishywashily told me to throw out the letter from the attorney and that they were not going to take the matter any further. He then said that he hopes he can see my daughter some time when it's convenient for me...then that he loves me like I'm his own family. ?!?!?!?!?

I think they are waving a white flag because we called their bluff. However, I'm worried that this little faux apology-like cry baby statement is somehow a sword that they're waiting for me to fall on. Not to mention the fact that since this began I've heard of some serious rumors/allegations about his conduct with children.

Is my instinct to grab my daughter and run high into the hills at any threat of their visit going to bite me in the rear?

 

[Antigone*]

A couple of weeks ago I emailed the grandparents. I included a link to an article written by a lawyer that outlines the trauma a gpv case brings upon a child. I then listed several facts about GPV cases that I am sure they didn't believe. My daughter's father allowed me to add his name to the bottom of the email. After the grandparents read the email my ex had to endure two shouting matches with his father in which gpa said "we'll do what we have to do to get her." At that time they showed no signs of backing down whatsoever. Feeling united by our agreement to the issue, my ex and I quit worrying about it.

Yesterday Gpa called me and very wishywashily told me to throw out the letter from the attorney and that they were not going to take the matter any further. He then said that he hopes he can see my daughter some time when it's convenient for me...then that he loves me like I'm his own family. ?!?!?!?!?

I think they are waving a white flag because we called their bluff. However, I'm worried that this little faux apology-like cry baby statement is somehow a sword that they're waiting for me to fall on. Not to mention the fact that since this began I've heard of some serious rumors/allegations about his conduct with children.

Is my instinct to grab my daughter and run high into the hills at any threat of their visit going to bite me in the rear?

Be very deliberate when dealing with these folks from now on. Whatever you do, don't leave kiddo with them alone, visits should be with you on your terms at your home or short visits at their home.

 

[liandrajade]

Hmmm, take it with a grain of salt and NEVER let your guard down. Is it possible that the GP found out they would lose if they attempted a suit? Possibly but learn from me and my situation, NEVER underestimate anything, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

These cases hit hard with me from my experiences over the last year and now what I have to deal with permanently. Since I have a court order, it protects me but can also be a double edged sword in that if GP feels like I'm not following it to her likes, she can file to have it modified{of course you have to have proof etc to get a modification} so I will be riding the court merry go round until my child is 18.

Good Luck and follow your instincts, do not be afraid to stand up for what is the right thing to do by your child. Feel free to send me a PM anytime.

 

[armouredone]

Here's my quandry...should we let this guy see our kids ("our" = their two sons and us two mothers) at ALL after hearding these allegations? Would that look to the court like we were okay with a possible molester around our kids? How would it even be possible to get these rumors verified? Now that we've heard this we don't want those people around our daughter until we find out if it's true or not. BUT, since now we don't them around at all, would that give them a greater chance to prevail in court?

Also, I am concerned that they are just going to try to butter us up so they can get close with my daughter and THEN try for a court order after they've established a relationship. I don't think this is the end of this. I have great concern that her dad won't live until she is of age because of his extremely severe drinking problem. So, even if he's on my side, it won't do anyone any good if he's in the ground.

I don't want to make any mistakes in dealing with this.

 

[liandrajade]

I briefly pulled up the MI statutes on a grandparenting time suit, it would seem that the legislation would be on your side since they do not have many of the prerequisites for even starting a suit:

Sec. 7b. (1) A child's grandparent may seek a grandparenting time order under 1 or more of the following
circumstances:
(a) An action for divorce, separate maintenance, or annulment involving the child's parents is pending
before the court.
(b) The child's parents are divorced, separated under a judgment of separate maintenance, or have had their
marriage annulled.
(c) The child's parent who is a child of the grandparents is deceased.
(d) The child's parents have never been married, they are not residing in the same household, and paternity
has been established by the completion of an acknowledgment of parentage under the acknowledgment of
parentage act, 1996 PA 305, MCL 722.1001 to 722.1013, by an order of filiation entered under the paternity
act, 1956 PA 205, MCL 722.711 to 722.730, or by a determination by a court of competent jurisdiction that
the individual is the father of the child.

and then regarding the suit, this is what I found:

(b) In order to give deference to the decisions of fit parents, it is presumed in a proceeding under this
subsection that a fit parent's decision to deny grandparenting time does not create a substantial risk of harm to
the child's mental, physical, or emotional health. To rebut the presumption created in this subdivision, a
grandparent filing a complaint or motion under this section must prove by a preponderance of the evidence
that the parent's decision to deny grandparenting time creates a substantial risk of harm to the child's mental,
physical, or emotional health. If the grandparent does not overcome the presumption, the court shall dismiss
the complaint or deny the motion.

I would like to think that in YOUR case, there is no established relationship, BOTH parents are in agreement that there poses a significant threat to your child's safety if visitation were to occur, I think you would be legally within your rights and successful in defending yourself should a suit occur. But like I have said many times, consulting a lawyer in your area would always be best.

Here is the entire statute: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(gduquh55dwxq0gzkf0zots55))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-act-91-of-1970.pdf

 

[justalayman]

Here's my quandry...should we let this guy see our kids ("our" = their two sons and us two mothers) at ALL after hearding these allegations? Would that look to the court like we were okay with a possible molester around our kids? .

read what you wrote in the beginning of this thread:

The paternal grandparents are welcomed to visit my daughter while she is at their other son's (my daughter's uncle) visiting her twin cousins who are the same age. The other son lives about four miles down the same road. They refused to see any of the grandchildren this way because they want them at their house and without their parents. The paternal grandparents are invited to all dance recitals, t-ball games etc.. The paternal grandparents have never once asked me for a specific time that they could have me or my daughter over as a guest.

If you notice, you allowed supervised visits whether that was the intent or not. The g-parents want private visitation. Due to the allegations, I would review this as a red flag. I would not allow private visitations and if you do allow any visitation, it should be where you know the people and you trust them with your children's safety. If the the "supervisors" are aware of the allegations, (and no, do not go around spreading the info until you are very confident of the facts) but if those supervisors are aware of the allegations, simply make them understand your fears and concerns and ask them to be alert to any possible improper actions.


as to finding out the truth? If their own children do not know whether the allegations are true or not, I would view the allegations with guarded skepticism. Children from that household will most likely have some basis to believe or disbelieve such allegations. With the thought of the allegations in mind, when they review activities in the house, they will generally go "now I understand what was going on" or "I never saw anything that gave me any reason to suspect..."