Tired of the waiting game

[DomsMom]

What is the name of your state? I live in Missouri.

My son is now 2 1/2 yrs old, and unfortunately his father has chosen to see him only a handful of times since his birth. He is currently being prosecuted by the state again for violation of probation from continuing to not pay his child support. I want to take his rights away from him, even though he chooses not to exercise them.

I know that courts don't usually do that, but my son's father has only seen him once in over a year, and that was only because I forced it on him. I am not one of those mothers who refuses to let the father see their child. I have shown him more patience and given him more chances than a saint would have. I have several character witnesses, and witnesses to events, including a child advocate ( all of which used to be or still are friends of his).

I would like my Fiance' to be able to adopt my son after we get married in June of 2008, since he is the only daddy that my son has ever known. I just don't know where to go from here. My son's father doesn't want to sign his rights away because he is afraid of "what people would think of him", but I heard that I can get the courts to take away his rights in light of everything that has happened.

Ps. I'm sorry its so scrambled guys, this is my first post and there is so much to the story that I'm leaving out to save you all from boredom. Im hope its clear enough for someone to give me advice. Thanks

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? I live in Missouri.

My son is now 2 1/2 yrs old, and unfortunately his father has chosen to see him only a handful of times since his birth. He is currently being prosecuted by the state again for violation of probation from continuing to not pay his child support. I want to take his rights away from him, even though he chooses not to exercise them.

I know that courts don't usually do that, but my son's father has only seen him once in over a year, and that was only because I forced it on him. I am not one of those mothers who refuses to let the father see their child. I have shown him more patience and given him more chances than a saint would have. I have several character witnesses, and witnesses to events, including a child advocate ( all of which used to be or still are friends of his).

I would like my Fiance' to be able to adopt my son after we get married in June of 2008, since he is the only daddy that my son has ever known. I just don't know where to go from here. My son's father doesn't want to sign his rights away because he is afraid of "what people would think of him", but I heard that I can get the courts to take away his rights in light of everything that has happened.

Ps. I'm sorry its so scrambled guys, this is my first post and there is so much to the story that I'm leaving out to save you all from boredom. Im hope its clear enough for someone to give me advice. Thanks

You need to let the whole adoption idea sit on the back burner for a while. You won't be able to even do anything until you have been married for a while (maybe at least a year, its depends on your state's adoption rules). At that point, you can consult an adoption attorney. Adoption is NOT a DYI project.

It won't be possible to involuntarily terminate dad's rights unless he meets the criteria for abandonment for your state. That usually means no contact, not even child support, for a specific period of time.

 

[Ohiogal]

And in addition to what LD says, with termination, there has to be someone standing in wings to adopt. Regardless of whether he meets the criteria.

 

[nextwife]

I would like my Fiance' to be able to adopt my son after we get married in June of 2008, since he is the only daddy that my son has ever known.

It's nice that this is what you want, but shouldn't that also really be something that your FIANCE wants, not just you? That he truly WANTS to assume FOREVER responsibility for the child you had with another man? And is it fair of you to ask this of a man you aren't even married to for a few years?

 

[CJane]

Involuntary termination of parental rights is nearly impossible, barring extreme circumstances.

And nothing you've listed is 'extreme' enough to qualify. So either explain to the father of the child all of the 'benefits' of relinquishing his rights voluntarily - which is still going to require an attorney, a pending adoption, and years of court time... or deal with the fact that the man you chose to father your child isn't going to be involved in his life but will always be his father.

If you google Termination of parental rights + missouri you'll get a list of 'grounds'. NONE of them seem to apply in your case - even abandonment.

So, my advice to you is to carry on with your life. Stop trying to force a relationship with the child and his father, and quite trying to force the dissolution of the relationship.

 

[DomsMom]

It was my fiance's idea to adopt my son in the first place. That is what he truly wants, and he knows of all that comes with it. I guess I just don't understand how a man can go for 2 1/2 years without paying a cent of child support, even with the court orders and continuous court appearances, and decide not to see his child unless I make him (which I admit now, was stupidity on my part, you cant force a person to be a parent if they have no want to be one), and how I couldn't get his rights taken.

I contacted him last month and he said he is willing to sign his rights away, but he doesn't want to have to pay any of the back child support that he owes. How can I swing that? I cant imagine that the state would use their time and money to prosecute him for the last year, and just throw their hands up and say "ok, you don't have to pay any of that money that you owe, if you sign your rights away". Wouldn't they just see that as a total waste of their time? As it stands right now, he is going back to court this month for violating his probation for the second time for not getting a job and paying the support ordered by the court.

Thanks for the advice guys. I had no idea that it was such a long process and that we had to be married for a certain period of time before the adoption could take place. Thanks again

 

[DomsMom]

Involuntary termination of parental rights is nearly impossible, barring extreme circumstances.

And nothing you've listed is 'extreme' enough to qualify. So either explain to the father of the child all of the 'benefits' of relinquishing his rights voluntarily - which is still going to require an attorney, a pending adoption, and years of court time... or deal with the fact that the man you chose to father your child isn't going to be involved in his life but will always be his father.

If you google Termination of parental rights + missouri you'll get a list of 'grounds'. NONE of them seem to apply in your case - even abandonment.

So, my advice to you is to carry on with your life. Stop trying to force a relationship with the child and his father, and quite trying to force the dissolution of the relationship.

How is it that I couldn't get them (parental rights) taken on grounds of abandonment? If he has made the choice not to see him, or even contact me about him for over a year? What is it that constitutes abandonment, if that does not? There is no relationship, period. I tried for the first 18 months to make one between them, but my sons father would have nothing to do with it. So I stopped. My only concern is, that my Fiance is in the Marines, and he would like to adopt him before he leaves ( after our wedding). And when he is stationed at his base, and Dom and I go to join him, is there any potential problems there? Since his father has seen him maybe 8 times since he has been born, and never paid child support? He honestly couldn't care less is we move, so he (my sons father) said, but what if he decided to cause problems, just because thats the way he is?

 

[Bloopy]

Have you received any benefits from the state? If so, the state has been paying you and your son’s way and is owed money by Dad. They will not “drop it.” If the money is only owed to you, you can close your enforcement case with CSE. It’s not a smart idea, but it can be done.

As other’s have said, your fiancée is not eligible yet to adopt. Termination will not happen until there is someone to replace Dad financially. The government doesn’t want to risk you becoming a burden, with Dad off scott-free.

 

[CJane]

and how I couldn't get his rights taken.

Because the right to parent your child is guaranteed by the Constitution. There has to be a case made that it is overwhelmingly in the child's best interests to remove the Constitutional rights from the parent.

It's not a parenting issue, or a 'he's an a-hole' issue. It's a Constitutional issue.

Any and every parent has the RIGHT to be a BAD parent.

I contacted him last month and he said he is willing to sign his rights away, but he doesn't want to have to pay any of the back child support that he owes. How can I swing that? I cant imagine that the state would use their time and money to prosecute him for the last year, and just throw their hands up and say "ok, you don't have to pay any of that money that you owe, if you sign your rights away". Wouldn't they just see that as a total waste of their time? As it stands right now, he is going back to court this month for violating his probation for the second time for not getting a job and paying the support ordered by the court.

In some cases, you can waive the back child support... so that you'd basically be saying "nevermind, you don't owe me, the debt is forgiven."

BUT it can't be done in EVERY case and it can't come across as you 'paying' him to terminate his rights AND it's very likely that it cannot be done if you are or have ever been on welfare. Because if you have been (since the birth of the child) he doesn't owe YOU - he owes the State.

And even if you DID get him to agree to a termination and you WERE able to forgive the arrears, you'd still need an attorney, you'd need to be married for a couple of years, you'd need to go through ALL of the motions and ALL of the expense.

 

[Bloopy]

Help me out CJane, but I think in Missouri Dad can be considered to have abandoned the child after only six months. That means no contact whatsoever, not a penny of support. A year of abandonment would be weightier in court.

Since Dad is willing to allow termination, you don’t really need to prove abandonment. What you need is more than a fiancée to adopt.

 

[DomsMom]

Involuntary termination of parental rights is nearly impossible, barring extreme circumstances.

And nothing you've listed is 'extreme' enough to qualify. So either explain to the father of the child all of the 'benefits' of relinquishing his rights voluntarily - which is still going to require an attorney, a pending adoption, and years of court time... or deal with the fact that the man you chose to father your child isn't going to be involved in his life but will always be his father.

If you google Termination of parental rights + missouri you'll get a list of 'grounds'. NONE of them seem to apply in your case - even abandonment.

So, my advice to you is to carry on with your life. Stop trying to force a relationship with the child and his father, and quite trying to force the dissolution of the relationship.

I did what you said and googled it. In the list of grounds for termination of parental rights in Missouri I found these:

Abandonment or Extreme Parental Disinterest
Failure of Reasonable Effort
Failure to Maintain Contact
Failure to Provide Support

ALL of which fit my situation exactly. So I guess I'm still confused as to why I wouldn't be able to have his rights stripped from him.

 

[DomsMom]

Have you received any benefits from the state? If so, the state has been paying you and your son’s way and is owed money by Dad. They will not “drop it.” If the money is only owed to you, you can close your enforcement case with CSE. It’s not a smart idea, but it can be done.

As other’s have said, your fiancée is not eligible yet to adopt. Termination will not happen until there is someone to replace Dad financially. The government doesn’t want to risk you becoming a burden, with Dad off scott-free.

No I have never received any type of Welfare. I have not gotten any money from the state to supplement what I wasn't getting from his father. I don't and never have needed to the money. I'm financially independent on my own. The whole point of child support for me was that if his father was not going to help me raise our son in any way, he might as well financially, since that is something that he couldn't call off.

 

[Bloopy]

I did what you said and googled it. In the list of grounds for termination of parental rights in Missouri I found these:

Abandonment or Extreme Parental Disinterest
Failure of Reasonable Effort
Failure to Maintain Contact
Failure to Provide Support

ALL of which fit my situation exactly. So I guess I'm still confused as to why I wouldn't be able to have his rights stripped from him.

You do see how those are pretty low on the list of grounds as compared to, “Murder/Manslaughter of sibling child?”

Do you see how this would be an instant ticket to termination and not the ones you cherry picked from the list?

You need time, someone eligible to adopt, and overall best interests of the child. You are not there yet. Not even close.

 

[DeeCan]

I realize that the idea of your son having "a daddy" is important to you, but your son is only 2.5 years old. Why not wait until he is old enough to express his wishes?

Most states, without extreme cause (and those you've mentioned don't usually qualify), will not permit the termination of parental rights unless there is someone else willing to take that responsiblity. You and your fiance are not even married yet, so there is no one there who would, in the eyes of the law, qualify.

Besides, have you taken into consideration that if you proceed with marrying your fiance and he adopts your son, in the event that the two you divorce, you will forever be tied to him? It may seem hunky dory now, but speaking from personal experience, it can be like making the same mistake twice.

Don't get into any rush. First get married. Then I personally would wait for my son to become old enough to express his own wishes, lest someday he hold MY decisions on such an important matter against me. After all, it's not that his father is corrupting your son with is irresponsible lifestyle since he doesn't see him; and CS wouldn't be paid anyway upon an adoption. So the only thing that changes in this equation is a last name and names on a BC.

Don't put the cart before the horse.

 

[Bloopy]

No I have never received any type of Welfare. I have not gotten any money from the state to supplement what I wasn't getting from his father. I

This helps you "work out a deal with him". A judge may frown on such bribery as CJane suggested.