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TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
It's too bad there's nothing you can do to prevent that kind of stuff...you know him well enough to know what he'll do, yet you have to wait for him to do it before you can even try to hold him accountable (which he apparently doesn't care about, anyway). And all the while, you're paying to do this and he still doesn't learn.

Husband's ex has been in contempt lots of times, but it's been nearly impossible for him to prove any of it and the attorney he did consult said it would never go anywhere...so, I guess the sneaky ones get away with the bad behavior. On the bright side, they've never had to go to court over anything until now :)
I put everything in writing - with the thought that I will never be embarrassed for the judge to read it all.

And for you husband's case, I would suggest DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT. Chances are that not ONE thing is really that bad, but it can be shown that a series of the actions constitutes a serious lack of co-parenting.
 


TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
On a sidenote, unless the JUDGE said they are in contempt, they aren't.

My X tried that one on me - didn't work. **I** have NEVER been found to e in contempt of anything by the judge. Now, HE's been found to be in contempt more times than you can shake a stick at.
 

doc2b

Member
I put everything in writing - with the thought that I will never be embarrassed for the judge to read it all.

And for you husband's case, I would suggest DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT. Chances are that not ONE thing is really that bad, but it can be shown that a series of the actions constitutes a serious lack of co-parenting.
He had a detailed journal for the first 2 years after the divorce was filed and then finalized. Every DV incident, police reports, her withholding the kids during his parenting time, lack of contact regarding dr's appts made/attended, proof (pictures) she was smoking during her parenting time with the kids, that he hasn't been able to get again since then (yes, it's in the CO because both kids have asthma that is seriously aggravated by smoke, and the kids say she still smoking when they're with her, but you can't use hearsay)...it's over 350 pages long, and I helped him index it by "type" of incident for easier reference. :rolleyes:

His old attorneys response to it all..."don't waste your time with this, it doesn't help with anything". So he hasn't done it since. I hate his old attorney, she's was fired from the firm she worked for after his divorce was over. And half of his bill was forgiven by the partners (most of it was double-billing on her part, anyway).

In all fairness, she hasn't pulled the stuff lately that she did with him early on, but there are definitely still issues.
 

doc2b

Member
On a sidenote, unless the JUDGE said they are in contempt, they aren't.

My X tried that one on me - didn't work. **I** have NEVER been found to e in contempt of anything by the judge. Now, HE's been found to be in contempt more times than you can shake a stick at.
Gotcha...I should have said she did not follow the terms set forth in the court order.
 

TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
Actually, they will use a log as supplemental information. Because I could document by day certain activities, the judge did motion for supervised visits.
 

doc2b

Member
Actually, they will use a log as supplemental information. Because I could document by day certain activities, the judge did motion for supervised visits.
That is good to know...he keeps all emails/text/transcripts of nasty messages, so he can start a log off of those. He actually emails her every time something happens contrary to the CO just to have a note of it and make sure she's aware that she violated it. Most go without a response, but some have had really priceless retorts.
 

TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
Which is why I suggested earlier about hiring an attorney to ask some of these question.

The basic gyst (sic) is that you allow the opposing party time to prepare a rebuttal - this little constitutional right.
 

doc2b

Member
Which is why I suggested earlier about hiring an attorney to ask some of these question.

The basic gyst (sic) is that you allow the opposing party time to prepare a rebuttal - this little constitutional right.
Working on that whole attorney thing...I don't think I couldn't decipher the rules of Discovery if I wanted to-my brain just isn't wired that way!
 

doc2b

Member
Okay...my husband is working on drafting up a proposal (I'll post it later for opinions) on changes for the parenting schedule. He's not going to haggle the CS issue...he just wants them to calculate actual support owed based on the formula and go from there (I think that's fair, but it sounds like his ex doesn't want that to happen...we'll see).

While working on that, there's another question he needs a quick opinion/advice on. As I'd mentioned in a past post, their CO states no smoking during parenting time due to the kids asthma and allergies.

He and I can smell smoke on the kids everytime they're picked up, and although I know that smoke clings to clothes/coats, etc (I smoked myself for a long time) and could have gotten on them while the kids weren't there, it's in their hair as well and they are both "tattling" on their mom, stating they keep catching her smoking in the car, in the bathroom, in her bedroom, etc. when they're at her house. This happened again yesterday when the kids called her a "liar" and basically expressed they think she doesn't care about their health.

Dad wants to do the right thing for the kids, but from what I've read on here, can't file a Motion to Show Cause without proof she's smoking during her time. He's tried the parent to parent approach and sent a handful of emails over the past few months with his concern, a couple got answers back, a couple didn't...the ones he got back basically said she doesn't smoke, the kids are lying and it's none of his business. Aside from the health concerns, he's noticed that the kids are sounding increasingly upset with mom trying to lie to them and doing something harmful to their health and he's afraid it's effecting their trust in mom to be honest with them and do the right thing.

There's really no good way to handle this, and I have no idea what advice to give him. Should he file anyway, without proof, and just present what he's heard from the kids and that they stink when they come home? Or does he have to just drop it and wait to see if the kids have a full blown asthma attack (they've been having 1-2 week spurts of chronic coughs for a while, now and are under treatment by an allergy/asthma specialist)?

Oh, and another couple of questions...Dad can't get mom to give him a copy of their secondary insurance card/info...it's been 3 months he's been asking and she keeps saying she doesn't have a card, but won't give him the contract number or anything. He knows that she has insurance because she's submitted it to the hospital that stepson went to last month. She actually called the hospital and (against their own policy) convinced them to change the billing info over to her address and name out of dad's. This is the third office that she's called and switched over to her name without telling him. It's not in the CO that bills need to be in her name or sent directly to her, she just needs copies. Can he stop this from happening? It's harder for him to get records/bills, etc released to him than it ever has been for her at any office or at the school, and when she gets these things switched, it always seems to complicate issues even more.

Thanks for input!
 
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doc2b

Member
My husband got his court ordered mediation date (4/9) in the mail today for the parenting plan portion...looks like the motion went through just fine. :D

He's prepared his notes with regards to the response filed by his ex, and is ready to go. He's not thrilled with the idea of mediation (after what happened last time), but isn't sure they'll allow him to go straight to the referree. Is there anything else he needs to have ready besides his notes? He's heard that if mediation fails, they may send him straight to see the referree and he wants to be prepared.

Thanks, everybody (especially Ginny) for all your ideas and help!
 

doc2b

Member
Here is my husband's notes in response to his ex-wife's response to the motion to change parenting time. These aren't being submitted to the court, they're just for reference during mediation or before the referree, but they're typed in third person just in case he has to turn it in. He's still willing to negotiate on a couple of the things that state he disagrees, but wanted to leave a little room to work with. He agreed with most additions that she requested, but not all in their entirety. Just looking for opinions...do most points sound fair?

The Plaintiff’s original motion requested, in summary, the following changes be made to the parenting plan:

1. Plaintiff requests parenting time begin on Wednesdays at 3:37pm (school’s ending time) until Sunday at either 9am or 2pm, alternating weeks as the current CO determines.
2. Change ROFR from 2 hours to 8 hours
3. Allow both parents 2 weeks of summer vacation time, to be used in either a 2 week increment or 2-1 week increments. Should follow current CO guidelines with regards to determining how many of the other parents’ overnights are allowed.
4. Notice to exercise summer parenting time must be given at least 30 days prior to requested dates, unless worked out between the parties.
5. Specify Mother’s Day/Father’s Day/Kids’ Birthday should start at 9am and end at 8:30pm each year.
6. Allow children to spend 5 hours time with their half siblings on their birthday.
7. Change Halloween parenting time from 6pm-10pm to 3:30pm-10pm.

The following is the Plaintiff‘s answer to the Defendants response:

1. Defendant claims that the Plaintiff already has “substantial parenting time and if his motion were granted, Defendants parenting time would be severely impacted”. Plaintiff disagrees in that, during the school year, this would mean a difference of only 7.5 hours per week for the Defendant, no overnights will be lost, and during the summer the parenting plan would equate to an almost 50/50 distribution of time with the children (He would have 3:37pm Wednesday afternoon through 9am or 2pm on Sunday). The Plaintiff agrees with the Defendant that the children should have equal parenting time with both parties, and he is trying to modify the parenting plan to reflect this. Not only with regards to time exercised, but having the ability to enjoy uninterrupted time with the children. The plaintiff is also trying to satisfy the requests of the children, who stated they are “tired of going back and forth” between homes and feels that the frequent exchanges and short hours at night are causing undue stress and making it difficult for them to have any real quality time as a family.
2. The Defendant is requesting that she receive every other weekend with the children. The hypocrisy of this request is evident, in that she claims a loss of 7.5 hours per week will “severely impact” her parenting time, and is in the same response asking for a total of 80-90 hours per month, including 4 overnights, of the Plaintiff’s parenting time. The Plaintiff has been more than cooperative since the Court Order became effective in allowing the Defendant time with the children as requested when on his parenting time, as long as provided proper notice. He is willing and able to continue this practice with the cooperation of the Defendant, and if in the children’s best interest.
3. Plaintiff stands by his statement that the Defendant has, in writing through email, text and over the phone, refused to feed the children on the nights the Plaintiff picks them up, unless on her own terms. The Plaintiff picks up the kids at 6pm, and only request the kids be fed dinner by the Defendant when the children have an activity or event to go to (whether school related, extracurricular, or family affair). The court order does not state that either parent is exclusively responsible for the meal preparation of the children at any given time, and the Defendant’s refusal to do so is evidence of her inability and unwillingness to co parent with the Plaintiff.
4. Answers to further modifications requested by the Defendant:
A) Agree to modification of ROFR being changed to 8 hours. Plaintiff can also agree, if Defendant is agreeable, to eliminate the ROFR except for in the case that either parent is unavailable overnight with the children.
B) Defendant’s statement is contradictory. Requests 7 days of summer vacation, to be used consecutively or non consecutively. Then states any hours used as regular parenting time shall be included in the 7 days, thus negating the statement that days may be used nonconsecutively. Again, Plaintiff is requesting 14 days of summer vacation as outlined above.
C) Agree with 30 days notice to be given with intent to exercise summer vacation time, disagree that it cannot “conflict with any other scheduled events”. Based on past experiences with the Defendant, the Plaintiff believes that this stipulation is intended to be used as a tool to frustrate his ability to exercise his summer vacation time. Common sense and common courtesy should be used when scheduling summer vacation time, as to not intentionally overlap the other parent’s known planned special events, but within reason. Plaintiff believes that neither parent should need to ask permission to take their vacation with the children. Also, vacation time cannot be utilized over 4th of July holiday time or over Labor Day holiday time, unless you are the parent who has the children for that holiday and choose to use it for their vacation.
D) Agrees that Children’s birthday can be modified to end at 8:30 on school nights, and 10pm on non-school nights. Plaintiff still believes that a start time is necessary and that the children’s birthday should begin at 9am, regardless of whether a school day or non-school day.
E) Again, Plaintiff agrees that Mother’s Day (as well as Father’s Day) should start at 9am, and would also like to add an ending time of 8:30pm.
F) Plaintiff disagrees with Defendant’s request for division of the Winter holiday time. Both parties are able to spend either Christmas Eve or Christmas with the children, and as stated before, Plaintiff is willing to give time to the Defendant, as needed and as is appropriate, for her family events over the break. If the Winter Break were to be split between the parties, the Plaintiff’s time with the children would be lost on his birthday every other year.
G) The Plaintiff disagrees that the Defendant should be given 5 hours during the Sunday before Christmas of Winter break if it falls during the Plaintiff’s scheduled holiday. The Plaintiff has, for the last 3 years in a row, allowed the Defendant to have the children for her family’s party because there were no other plans scheduled during that time. However, if the Plaintiff chooses to take an out of town trip over the holiday, his vacation time would be negatively impacted in order for the Defendant’s proposal to happen. Plaintiff can agree to allow the Defendant the kids for 5 hours in order to attend the party if on his time, as long as no other family or vacation plans have been made. Plaintiff would not, however, like this to be a mandatory event.
H) Plaintiff disagrees with Defendant that Mid-Winter break should be alternated. He should continue to recieve the Winter Break, minus the day and a half she has the children for the holiday and whatever other time he is able to give her the children for her family's events, and she should continue to have the Mid-Winter Break.
I) Plaintiff disagrees with Defendant about lifting the Grandparenting time limits. As the CO states, the Grandparents are allowed 2 overnights per month during their own child’s parenting time. It does not have limits as to how many hours the Grandparents are allowed to spend with the children each month, giving them adequate parameters in which to make plans. If the Defendant would like the children to spend more overnights with the grandparents, she is free to stay the night, as well. However, if she is unavailable to care for the kids overnight and the Grandparents have already exercised their overnights for the month, the Plaintiff would like the opportunity to have the extra time with the children himself, and expects that the Defendant would appreciate the same opportunity.
J) Plaintiff agrees that both parties should be promptly notified of emergencies that occur with the minor children, but not until the safety and health of the children has been secured.
K) Plaintiff agrees to use both parent’s health care insurances for the children’s care. Also agrees that adequate time should be provided to pay a medical bill, but not to the extent that it verges on collections like has happened in the past. Agrees that medical bills cannot be deducted from child support payments. Agrees to coordinate benefits, if applicable to the situation. Agrees that, if one party knowingly and unnecessarily goes to a non-participating provider, they will be responsible for that medical payment.
L) Plaintiff agrees that at this time, the children should remain in Plymouth Canton school district. However, if circumstances change, the current court order and the parent’s joint legal custody gives both Plaintiff and Defendant the right to motion the Court to allow permission to change district’s if it is found to be in the best interest of the children. He would like for this right to remain intact.
 
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doc2b

Member
and...one more page

M) Plaintiff agrees that both parents should notify each other of any school or extracurricular activities. Also agrees that both parties should be allowed to attend and participate in these events. However, not to the extent that it impedes on the parent’s time who has the children during the event.
N) The Plaintiff agrees to obtaining the other parent’s permission to leave the country with the children. If both parties cannot come to an agreement, the Court may need to be involved. The Plaintiff does not agree that the parties should be required to notify each other in the event that they are traveling out of state, nor should they need to provide each other with locations, addresses and phone numbers. Both parties have cell phones and are able to contact each other and the children using these at any time. Plaintiff does not agree that any change in domicile be approved by the Court, but does agree that any move over 100 miles from the child’s legal residence be approved by the Court or the other parent, as long as within the state of Michigan (using terms set by the existing Court Order). The Plaintiff’s job can relocate at will, and this requires him the flexibility to be able to move closer to his job if necessary.
O) Plaintiff agrees that parenting time pickups should be at the home where the children are staying prior to pickup. Plaintiff believes that it is reasonable to set a 20 mile limit from the residence for pickups, unless agreed upon by the parties, but believes that 3 hours notice in change of pickup location is sufficient for such a short distance.
P) Plaintiff agrees that urgent changes in parenting time should be communicated by phone call. However, Defendant seldom answers the only contact number that the Plaintiff has for her when he calls, for any reason, and in this event may need to resort to sending a text message to the Defendant in addition to leaving a voicemail
 

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