Thing is, we didn't know there was a problem until the initial engine damage occurred. And even at that time, we had no clue that there was a problem, only that there was a leak. I grew up in a lower middle class family. My first car was a Reliant K. My next one was a 30 year old F-150. Finally after I was really established I got myself a nice 15 year old Grand Marquis.You forgot to mention that they will need to explain why they drove around for at least a couple of months KNOWING there was a problem.
Thing is, I'd really rather not sue anyone. Sure they did the damage, and I want them to pay for what they caused. But mostly I just want to know whether this has any merit whatsoever if I wanted to take it that far. That way, when I walk into their shop, plop the damaged oil filter on the manager's desk, and ask him what they can do about this, I know sort of what my options will be if he tries to balk at me.Sue the bad guys in small claims court for the value of a rebuilt engine. You're only out a small amount and you might win.
Good luck.
You need to talk to the shop and ask them to repair your vehicle. If they do, then you're good. If they don't, then you sue.Thing is, I'd really rather not sue anyone. Sure they did the damage, and I want them to pay for what they caused. But mostly I just want to know whether this has any merit whatsoever if I wanted to take it that far. That way, when I walk into their shop, plop the damaged oil filter on the manager's desk, and ask him what they can do about this, I know sort of what my options will be if he tries to balk at me.
To me, a lawsuit is a lot of mess, and if I need to do it as a last resort, I will, but all I really want is for our two car family to have two cars, just like we did the day we took our van into be fixed.
That vehicle does not have even close to 7 grand KBB, even in excellent condition.First, the car wasn't a clunker with a foot in the grave, as someone posited. It's a 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport with about every option they had. The blue book for our specific van in good condition is a bit over $7000. The mechanic actually thought that the reason the alternator went out was due to the incessant vibration of the motor from the damage from no oil.
Sorry xylene, but I disagree, or at least in part. I just looked it up. You're right that I don't hit the $7k mark. Admittedly the last time I looked up the value was a year ago, so it's natural that it's dropped in value since then, but with all the options that our car has, the private party good condition still puts it at $6595. Our van is probably closer to the excellent condition (aside from the motor), Which comes in around $6965. So we're arguing over pennies here.That vehicle does not have even close to 7 grand KBB, even in excellent condition.
You neglected to include the mileage.
If this minivan had over 100k on it, I would say that the engine was at least 75% used up. Probably more.
The oil change people don't owe you a replacement van.
What is now wrong with the car? The fact that it "died", could be caused by any number of things, unrelated or possibly related to running low on oil.So today the car totally died, and this is bad
Interesting concept!The mechanic actually thought that the reason the alternator went out was due to the incessant vibration of the motor from the damage from no oil.
It's definitely the end result of the oil-less damage. I have *some* mechanical know-how (my dad was a mechanic, and some of it stuck), and when it's running (it will run, but just barely) you can tell that the bearing that slipped when the oil was gone has completely turned in there, which is what's causing all of our issues. My mechanic agrees, this was the direct cause from the oil issue.What is now wrong with the car? The fact that it "died", could be caused by any number of things, unrelated or possibly related to running low on oil.
The engine literally is shaking inside the engine compartment. It's not a bad sensor. A mechanic I know said the only repair option is a new motor, a la $4000. Not a cheap or reasonable fix on a car that blue books for right around $7000What is the cost to repair, this new problem? And what is the proof that this new problem was caused by running low on oil? You could have a bad sensor or computer taken out by the alternator problem.
In fact, it is right in front. However, our van has the sport package, which makes it a little lower to the ground, and I'm a little husky (okay, I'm right out obese), so without a jack, I can't do much more than look at the leading face of the filter. And because the damage to the filter was on the side facing the back of the engine and up a bit, it's invisible to someone who is just looking under the car.Isn't the oil filter on this engine, mounted down on the front side of the engine where it is visible? I had a minivan for a number of years, and trying to remember.
I don't know what you mean by 'a bearing slipped', and 'turned in there', which is causing all of the issues. What bearing is it that you think is the problem? Crankshaft main, camshaft, rod bearing, ??? And what is it that you think that bearing has done? What's the cost to replace that bearing? Unless you've had some catastrophic situation like a piston rod broke and poked thru the block, there's a reasonably good chance the engine can be fixed. If the problem is in the head, don't even have to dig deep into the engine.you can tell that the bearing that slipped when the oil was gone has completely turned in there, which is what's causing all of our issues. My mechanic agrees, this was the direct cause from the oil issue.
It's not so much what *I* think (and even if it were, what I think holds some weight, as I did grow up in my dad's repair shop), but what my mechanic, who is as unbiased as someone you pay to work on your car can be. In his opinion, without totally tearing apart the engine, the symptoms make it look like a camshaft bearing that slipped when the oil ran dry. I spoke to him again after the car completely died (well, it didn't completely die - you can drive it at about 30mph, and the shudder has greatly amplified) and in his expert, ASE certified opinion, the cam bearing probably went from being a little off to being completely reversed of where it's supposed to be. My mechanic also pointed out that with the positioning of the engine, the only way to replace it would be to take the engine out and rebuild the bottom half, which is $2k to $3k, depending on how bad it is when he opens it up. Of course, for very little more than that, he could just swap the motor out altogether. But considering that just to be able to crack the engine open enough to look at the problem to see what's wrong would be a $500 job, I'm not willing to throw that sort of money into the car if I don't feel confident I could recoup it.I don't know what you mean by 'a bearing slipped', and 'turned in there', which is causing all of the issues. What bearing is it that you think is the problem? Crankshaft main, camshaft, rod bearing, ??? And what is it that you think that bearing has done? What's the cost to replace that bearing?
Unless you have a competent trained unbiased mechanic diagnose your problem and take your engine apart if necessary, I believe you will be very hard pressed to prove what the problem now is. You have current symptoms that could be caused by many things, and you've leaped to a conclusion that the problem must be a bearing.
Not really. Again, the problems started the day the vehicle was driven without oil. The odds of some other, totally unrelated problem developing on the same exact day the car was driven without oil are so astronomical that I wouldn't begin to consider them. Further, both my mechanic that has serviced the car since the problem and another mechanic friend of mine both agree that the oil issue caused this.Secondly, I think you'll be hard pressed to also prove that IF there is a bearing problem, that it was caused by this lack of oil, and the lack of oil was caused by the oil filter and not by regular oil consumption of a 120K mile engine, or done at a previous low oil situation.
Did your low oil pressure light not warn you, not to drive without enough oil pressure?the problems started the day the vehicle was driven without oil
Actually, I just went looking, and I found two different local dealerships (local being within 75 miles) who have very comparable vans, and both have them priced between $6500 and $7000. Besides that, you can argue that any appraisal out there is a highball. Did you pay for your house what the appraiser told you it was worth? Hopefully not. Jewelry is another great example. Heck, we have a jewelry store in the area that brags about how their jewelry will appraise for double what you pay. An appraisal is just an indicator of what your car is worth and what *someone* will pay for it.KBB is NOT an accurate assessment of vehicle value. Would YOU pay $7000 for your car? I sure wouldn't, nor would an insurance company.
I'd swear I already mentioned this, but maybe I did it on the other forum I'm discussing this issue on. The light didn't come on until almost just after when the engine started running funny. By that time the damage was done. My wife was literally less than 1/2 mile from her job, so the distance from the oil light to parking the car was negligible.Kiawah said:Did your low oil pressure light not warn you, not to drive without enough oil pressure?
True enough. Thanks for your input.InsaneJane said:If the oil filter failed, leaked enough oil to cause the damage, then the manufacturer of the oil filter and the place that installed the filter with the obvios defect in it bears responsibility. The driver also can bear responsibility if they kept driving it after knowing that it was low and loosing oil.
You would be in a much better situation if the car had to be towed to a shop (that didn't have any prior knowledge of the vehicle) due to the vehicle's oil pressure gauge dropping, engine making horrible noise, and having to pull over...
That is a PERFECT example of the FACT that your car is worth nowhere NEAR $7,000.00Actually, I just went looking, and I found two different local dealerships (local being within 75 miles) who have very comparable vans, and both have them priced between $6500 and $7000.