Concerns about CPS and school!

[gr8rn]

Because it appeared to be a UTI.

So now social workers are permitted to diagnose medical conditions?

Oh, no, I meant your VERSION of the original events sound highly edited.

 

[mistoffolees]

First off I asked for advice not opinions and judgements. I have been totally honest.

I know what happened. If there was any possibility that our situation was abuse my daughter would have been removed from the home. She was not.

As a clinical social worker yes, I have obligation to report suspected child abuse. Again based upon the information I would not. Because it appeared to be a UTI. The nurse went on to question and then that is when my daughter said "Daddy hurt her." Yes, as a social worker I could have done the same thing and questioned the kids regarding sexual abuse, but that is not always the case in which case you have traumatized the child and family and caused a difficult working relationship where trust has been broken. I have worked in schools and when we had a similar situation I spoke with the parents about concerns about a medical condition. I told the parents that the child had to be seen by the doctor and the doctor had to send us a written report. It was documented in the child's chart that I kept at the school and in the nurses office. We covered our butts and if the child had not returned back to school with a doctor's note

Not all instances are sexual abuse. I am not saying that sexual abuse does not occur, because I know it does, I have worked with kids who were being sexually abused and have had to report it. As a social worker I am trained not to assume the worst case situation 1st. Which is why it so important to refer out and document when a case could be a medical condition.

You are confusing a mandated reporter's obligation to report and CPS's evaluation.

A mandated reporter is REQUIRED BY LAW to report if they believe that abuse MIGHT BE occurring. Then CPS investigates - and determines if the evidence supports a formal allegation of abuse. Saying that since CPS didn't remove the child indicates that the reporter should not have reported indicates that you don't understand the process - at all.

 

[You Are Guilty]

I have successfully prosecuted parents which less "evidence" than this. However, what is even more disturbing is a purported LSW who (still!) thinks that her personal differential diagnosis is what triggers reporting to CPS. I truly cannot believe any duly licensed social worker in any state would be that dense.

Something is fishy.

 

[CJane]

I have successfully prosecuted parents which less "evidence" than this. However, what is even more disturbing is a purported LSW who (still!) thinks that her personal differential diagnosis is what triggers reporting to CPS. I truly cannot believe any duly licensed social worker in any state would be that dense.

Something is fishy.

I can't believe that she honestly thinks that because CPS chose to return the child to her that the nurse overstepped her boundaries.

Should we then say that because a child wasn't diagnosed with an illness, we never should have taken them to the doctor?

And I don't believe for a minute that the child doesn't have something else going on that Lever 2000 - one of the least irritating washes on the market (it's not soap at all) - caused such an extreme reaction in a child. We're talking significant pain TWO DAYS LATER.

 

[acmb05]

First off I asked for advice not opinions and judgements. I have been totally honest.

You got advice right off the bat and then decided to argue that advice. Sorry but you get what you ask for.

I know what happened. If there was any possibility that our situation was abuse my daughter would have been removed from the home. She was not.

Really?? Then explain to me how hundreds if not thousands of children every year slip through the cracks in CPS and get sent back home to their abuser only to be abused some more and some times killed.

As a clinical social worker yes, I have obligation to report suspected child abuse. Again based upon the information I would not. Because it appeared to be a UTI. The nurse went on to question and then that is when my daughter said "Daddy hurt her." Yes, as a social worker I could have done the same thing and questioned the kids regarding sexual abuse, but that is not always the case in which case you have traumatized the child and family and caused a difficult working relationship where trust has been broken. I have worked in schools and when we had a similar situation I spoke with the parents about concerns about a medical condition. I told the parents that the child had to be seen by the doctor and the doctor had to send us a written report. It was documented in the child's chart that I kept at the school and in the nurses office. We covered our butts and if the child had not returned back to school with a doctor's note

And what would you have done had the child been taken home and beaten severely or killed? As a social worker you are obligated to report any signs of abuse. You are NOT obligated to call the parents, have them come in and talk to you, then release that child to those parents with instructions to take the child to see a doctor.

Not all instances are sexual abuse. I am not saying that sexual abuse does not occur, because I know it does, I have worked with kids who were being sexually abused and have had to report it.

Sure after you sent he child back home to his abuser for a week or two until you could get a second opinion. Quite frankly your attitude towards kids that are sexually abused sickens me. You are more worried about how the parents will feel or that you will get sued if it is found not to be abuse than you are making sure the child is safe.

As a social worker I am trained not to assume the worst case situation 1st. Which is why it so important to refer out and document when a case could be a medical condition.

As a social worker the first thing you should do is assume the worst.

The nurse in this case did everything she was supposed to do. If she had sent the child home with a suggestion to take her to a doctor to get checked and this child would have been beaten or killed you would be screaming because she did not do her job.

This nurse actually did "refer out" She called CPS who could legally take the child to be examined by a doctor instead of calling the "possible" abuser to take the child.

 

[cyjeff]

OP, I will go one step further...

YOU should have reported it as abuse. Your mandate as a mandatory reporter does not end at your own front door.

YOU should have immediately... IMMEDIATELY, not after someone else got involved... taken your child to a doctor for a thorough examination.

I realize the signs blur with proximity... but you have been trained better than this.

 

[AbbaDabba730]

OP have you taken your child to the doctor to be examined?

You keep saying it could have been a UTI, masterbation etc. But was the child examined?

Other posters have mentioned that it seems strange that the child would be having pain 2 days after such an incident.

Why would you have advised the child to go to the nurse if she still had pain? Why didn't you take your child to be checked?
Why do you seem to be so defensive about your husband saying that he would never abuse your child?

Honestly? I mean I understand that you would trust your husband, I get that, but if my daughter was in the tub with no prior vaginal injury and started screaming in pain while my husband was bathing her then still had pain the next day...I would be taking her to get checked! Not putting a 5 year old in the position to access the situation.

You should resign your position. I'm sorry but I think it is just wrong that you think a 5 year old with complaints of vaginal pain, bleeding, and a statement of daddy hurt me does not warrant a call to CPS then you do not know what you are doing.

I am not a mandated reporter, but if a child came to me with the same story I would call. I would not leave it up to the possibly abusive parents to take the child to the doctor to determine if abuse has occured. I would call and let CPS work it out.

I would think you (if you are truly a social worker) would know that if the child was being abused and the parents were alerted to the situation (without CPS involvement) that the parents would probably coach the child, or possibly hurt the child further as retaliation for "telling"

Get another job please.

 

[Proserpina]

OP, I will go one step further...

YOU should have reported it as abuse. Your mandate as a mandatory reporter does not end at your own front door.

YOU should have immediately... IMMEDIATELY, not after someone else got involved... taken your child to a doctor for a thorough examination.

I realize the signs blur with proximity... but you have been trained better than this.[/QUOT


Are you an idiot???

What was wrong with cyjeff's post?

Explain please?

 

[tln6801]

and how about the next time her child falls in the presence of her father, mom should call CPS to make sure he didn't push her...again...are you an idiot?

 

[Proserpina]

and how about the next time her child falls in the presence of her father, mom should call CPS to make sure he didn't push her...again...are you an idiot?

Are you serious?

 

[in1christy]

Again it was not sexual abuse. My daughter has very delicate skin apparently. I understand that it could appear as sexual abuse.

Do you really think that my husband would sexual abuse my child with the door open, me in the house awake, across the room from the nursery with the baby monitor on? Now let's be realistic here.

For centuries dad's have cared for the their daughter's helping them bathe and dress. I am sure that other little girls have had reactions to soaps that cause problems. The issue is not in our society that we jump to the conclusion that all parents are bad and are abusing and sexually abusing their kids.

Yes, abuse does happen. I am not denying it. It did not happen in this case. CPS workers are human they make mistakes. Some people will lie about the situation. CPS interviewed and investigated us and we were found with an a non credible case.

The nurse for some reason and I don't know why decided she was going to ask if my child who came to her teacher and had pain and burning and was instructed by me as someone she could trust to help her now has traumatized this child. Probably because she has the mind set that I feel most people on the board have expressed and that anything having to do with the genital area of a child is sexual abuse. Let us assume the worst. My child does not want to back to school on Monday morning because she is afraid that Mommy and Daddy will not pick her up. She is afraid to tell anyone something because they might take her away from Mommy and Daddy. That is why assessments are so important and not creating trauma is so important.

My child has been so traumatized by the events of Friday she will not sleep by herself, she cried when I left to run an errand.

Mandatory reporting says this: Extent of the knowledge triggering the duty to report varies. Some statutes call for reporting upon a mere "reasonable cause to believe" or a "reasonable suspicion." Other statutes require the reporter to "know or suspect," which is a higher degree of knowledge.

A child who simply reports to the nurse office with signs and symptoms of a UTI is reasonable suspicion? I think not. That is why you cover yourself by referring to a professional and that is referring to a doctor for further evaluation.

I am sure everybody is going to say that because the nurse is a mandatory reporter that she should always ask the kids when they come to see if they have been hurt by someone. Again Social Workers are ethical and do not assume the worst.

 

[AbbaDabba730]

Again it was not sexual abuse. My daughter has very delicate skin apparently. I understand that it could appear as sexual abuse.
Do you really think that my husband would sexual abuse my child with the door open, me in the house awake, across the room from the nursery with the baby monitor on? Now let's be realistic here.

For centuries dad's have cared for the their daughter's helping them bathe and dress. I am sure that other little girls have had reactions to soaps that cause problems. The issue is not in our society that we jump to the conclusion that all parents are bad and are abusing and sexually abusing their kids.

Yes, abuse does happen. I am not denying it. It did not happen in this case. CPS workers are human they make mistakes. Some people will lie about the situation. CPS interviewed and investigated us and we were found with an a non credible case.

The nurse for some reason and I don't know why decided she was going to ask if my child who came to her teacher and had pain and burning and was instructed by me as someone she could trust to help her now has traumatized this child. Probably because she has the mind set that I feel most people on the board have expressed and that anything having to do with the genital area of a child is sexual abuse. Let us assume the worst. My child does not want to back to school on Monday morning because she is afraid that Mommy and Daddy will not pick her up. She is afraid to tell anyone something because they might take her away from Mommy and Daddy. That is why assessments are so important and not creating trauma is so important.

My child has been so traumatized by the events of Friday she will not sleep by herself, she cried when I left to run an errand.

Mandatory reporting says this: Extent of the knowledge triggering the duty to report varies. Some statutes call for reporting upon a mere "reasonable cause to believe" or a "reasonable suspicion." Other statutes require the reporter to "know or suspect," which is a higher degree of knowledge.

A child who simply reports to the nurse office with signs and symptoms of a UTI is reasonable suspicion? I think not. That is why you cover yourself by referring to a professional and that is referring to a doctor for further evaluation.

I am sure everybody is going to say that because the nurse is a mandatory reporter that she should always ask the kids when they come to see if they have been hurt by someone. Again Social Workers are ethical and do not assume the worst.

Okay so even you, now, say that you can see why it was thought to be sexual abuse.

And as far as the other bolded....ODD very odd. Sorry.

Why is the child traumatized by being taken for 4 hours? Why is she afraid to tell anything? Why is she scared to stay alone with your husband?

I am a little creaped out by what you just said. I feel like calling Indiana and telling them someone named Christy, social worker, who had her 5 year old removed from school, needs to be further investingated. Something is wrong.

ETA: my niece was sexually abused. So this is bothering me.

5 year old, signs and symptoms:
Vaginal pain
Vaginal bleeding
Complaint of "daddy hurt her"
Nightmares? (won't sleep by herself)
Doesn't want mom to leave her alone with dad (when mom ran an errand)
Scared of being taken away (possibly being told by dad?)

Sorry but if those are not clear signs that something is wrong I don't know what is.

So OP what has been determined to be the source of the vaginal pain?

 

[cbg]

Where is Indiana Filer today?

 

[CJane]

and how about the next time her child falls in the presence of her father, mom should call CPS to make sure he didn't push her...again...are you an idiot?

This is what's known as a "straw man" argument. And frankly? It's disgusting in this context.

1) That you would equate potential sexual abuse to a fall.
2) That you would apparently prefer that Mom (or CPS, or the school nurse) err on the side of protecting the GROWN UPS and their FEELINGS than the CHILD.

That said, if Dad is with the child, helping her walk down the stairs, and she suddenly screams and thumps to the bottom, and by the time "oh so vigilant" mom makes it to the bottom of the stairs, where the child is clearly in great distress and pain, and Dad says "Oh, she fell. I was just trying to convince her to get back up and walk down the stairs with me some more." And Mom believes him and brushes off every bit of evidence to the contrary, and the school nurse calls CPS when TWO DAYS LATER the child is complaining that her head still hurts where she hit it when she "fell", I promise that I won't be upset about that situation either.

I don't know that Dad did anything untoward with the child. And I don't think anyone here is suggesting he DID. But obviously something happened because the child was screaming in pain, and was still experiencing enough pain to seek help from teachers and the nurse two days later.

And I'm bothered by this as well. Mom is now insisting that the child presented all of the signs of a UTI - and that's the first thing the nurse should have assumed was going on. But Mom has not taken the child to the doctor. Mom did not assume UTI when the child expressed pain/bleeding the next day - at that point, Mom assumed genital injury, due to extreme rubbing of the genital area. But the nurse's assessment that the child's expressed pain/bleeding/etc were due to genital injury was somehow crazy.
The nurse made an excellent judgment call that was based on protecting the child, and not the parents.

 

[Proserpina]

This is what's known as a "straw man" argument. And frankly? It's disgusting in this context.

1) That you would equate potential sexual abuse to a fall.
2) That you would apparently prefer that Mom (or CPS, or the school nurse) err on the side of protecting the GROWN UPS and their FEELINGS than the CHILD.

That said, if Dad is with the child, helping her walk down the stairs, and she suddenly screams and thumps to the bottom, and by the time "oh so vigilant" mom makes it to the bottom of the stairs, where the child is clearly in great distress and pain, and Dad says "Oh, she fell. I was just trying to convince her to get back up and walk down the stairs with me some more." And Mom believes him and brushes off every bit of evidence to the contrary, and the school nurse calls CPS when TWO DAYS LATER the child is complaining that her head still hurts where she hit it when she "fell", I promise that I won't be upset about that situation either.

I don't know that Dad did anything untoward with the child. And I don't think anyone here is suggesting he DID. But obviously something happened because the child was screaming in pain, and was still experiencing enough pain to seek help from teachers and the nurse two days later.

And I'm bothered by this as well. Mom is now insisting that the child presented all of the signs of a UTI - and that's the first thing the nurse should have assumed was going on. But Mom has not taken the child to the doctor. Mom did not assume UTI when the child expressed pain/bleeding the next day - at that point, Mom assumed genital injury, due to extreme rubbing of the genital area. But the nurse's assessment that the child's expressed pain/bleeding/etc were due to genital injury was somehow crazy.
The nurse made an excellent judgment call that was based on protecting the child, and not the parents.

I agree with the entire post, but in particular the underlined part.