Custody Modification

[Just Blue]

You know, I think its kind of hypocritical that we tell parents that they should get court orders, because court orders protect everyone. I also think its hypocritical that we tell custodial parents that they are required to follow the court orders to a "T", and then turn around and bash them all over the place when they actually WANT to follow the court orders.

If this were OP not wanting to give dad the ROFR he was entitled to receive we would also be bashing the heck out of the OP.

If OP were posting that Dad wanted to ROFR due to an hour or two before bedtime, I would tell her HE needs to grow up. It's petty. You know it, I know it and the Judge will slap her for it. Although the ROFR will likely be clarified and made more reasonable.

 

[stealth2]

I still want to know how old the child is and whens/he goes to bed. If s/he's 5 and goes to bed at 7:30? That's one thing. If s/he's 16 and goes to bed at 11? That's another. IMO, anyway.

 

[Just Blue]

I still want to know how old the child is and whens/he goes to bed. If s/he's 5 and goes to bed at 7:30? That's one thing. If s/he's 16 and goes to bed at 11? That's another. IMO, anyway.

Child is likely 4-6 per op's first postings.

kia1987
Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8

Custody Modification

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What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? PA
I currently have a custodial agreement with my ex for my child. The agreement is 50/50 shared physical and legal custody. In the beginning it seemed like this would be the fairest agreement for us and my child. However, she is going to be starting school soon and he has not followed the agreement like he should. There are many occasions where he will leave her with a babysitter at night to go out when he should have her. I have right of refusal. He does not call me or let me know that he is not going to be with her. The other night I called and asked if I could have her because it was a relatives birthday. He said no it's my night and Im going to have her. Okay that is fine I said. Turns out he was not home that night and went out. I do have proof of this. He often will leave my child with a sitter or his parents while he goes out when he should have her. What are the chances of me getting our agreement changed to 50/50 legal custody and me getting my child Mon-Fri everyweek overnight with visitation two nights of the week from 4-7:30 and everyother weekend. On the weekends he does not have her I would even not have a problem letting him have her 4:30-7 on that monday.

 

[stealth2]

So she likely goes to bed pretty early. Staying at Dad's, even if he goes out (although, *I* would suggest he wait to leave until she's gone to bed), she gets morning time with him. We're literally talking 1 1/2-2 hours of time before kiddo goes to bed. Not a hill to die on!

 

[Just Blue]

So she likely goes to bed pretty early. Staying at Dad's, even if he goes out (although, *I* would suggest he wait to leave until she's gone to bed), she gets morning time with him. We're literally talking 1 1/2-2 hours of time before kiddo goes to bed. Not a hill to die on!

Exactly. WOCT.

 

[haiku]

You know, I think its kind of hypocritical that we tell parents that they should get court orders, because court orders protect everyone. I also think its hypocritical that we tell custodial parents that they are required to follow the court orders to a "T", and then turn around and bash them all over the place when they actually WANT to follow the court orders.

If this were OP not wanting to give dad the ROFR he was entitled to receive we would also be bashing the heck out of the OP.

I think everyone has been telling her, her order is vague enough to be hard to enforce- it could also bite her right back.., and that she might want to think about what she is arguing about- a 5 year old asleep in her bed, waking up to daddy in the morning, is not anything horrible. For example.

I think everyone would say the same regardless of who was the OP.

 

[Ohiogal]

You know, I think its kind of hypocritical that we tell parents that they should get court orders, because court orders protect everyone. I also think its hypocritical that we tell custodial parents that they are required to follow the court orders to a "T", and then turn around and bash them all over the place when they actually WANT to follow the court orders.

If this were OP not wanting to give dad the ROFR he was entitled to receive we would also be bashing the heck out of the OP.

I don't see where anyone is bashing OP. What I, and many others are stating, is that the ROFR -- if as wide open as OP has posted that it is -- needs to be refined because it is poorly written.

 

[LdiJ]

I think everyone has been telling her, her order is vague enough to be hard to enforce- it could also bite her right back.., and that she might want to think about what she is arguing about- a 5 year old asleep in her bed, waking up to daddy in the morning, is not anything horrible. For example.

I think everyone would say the same regardless of who was the OP.

Its not anything horrible even if the child is up until midnight. There is nothing wrong with a child hanging out with grandparents. That was not my point. I had no objection to anything that you said. My objections were to the people bashing mom for wanting to follow the court orders. Yes, I absolutely agree that their ROFR needs to be clarified.

The point of an ROFR is to give the other parent more time with the child than they would normally get to spend, and to give the child more time with that parent. There is nothing wrong or horrible about THAT either.

I ALWAYS asked my daughter's father if he wanted to spend the time with her if I was going out or needed to be away from her before I asked or offered the time to anyone else, and we didn't have ROFR in our orders. To me, that simply was common sense.

 

[mistoffolees]

My thinking is this. He has half the week to go out and have fun.. yes there may be times he has special things he wants to do. That is when my rofr should come to play. What is the sense of having a rofr when there's an exception for him to leave for a whole night?

I don't see any exception in the ROFR. It's simply too vague to be useful.

And just because he has 'half the week to go out and have fun' doesn't mean that there won't be times that something comes up when he has the child and needs a sitter. I doubt if anyone here has never needed a sitter.

Like I said I don't care when he goes out. I just believe that if he's going to be gone for more than a couple hours I should have my child.

And just about everyone is agreeing with you. It's just that with the current court order, you have a problem - it's not clear enough to be useful. Look up possible wording for ROFR. For example, it might say that if the parent who has the child is going to be unable to care for the child for more than 4 hours at a time (or 1 day or 8.37 hours or whatever) that they have to provide the other parent with the opportunity to watch the child and must provide 24 hours notice - or something like that.

You can file for contempt. It is unlikely that the contempt charge will actually go anywhere. Rather, you would file for contempt as a way to get the court to clarify the right of first refusal clause so that it becomes useful.

 

[milspecgirl]

would she even really need to file contempt or just a petition to modify custody- specifically the ROFR portion.
Try to talk to dad first and explain that you would like a more solid ROFR clause in your papers because the one you have is very vague- see if you can agree to something together.
That would cause less trouble between the 2 of you than just hitting him with contempt charges.
And make the ROFR reasonable. I actually know someone's whose states if either party will be gone from the children more than 6 normal awake hours. So, if the child goes to bed at 8 and dad leaves at 6 and will be back before kiddo awakes- no big deal- it is less than 6 normal awake hours.
Kids shuffle a lot with 50/50 custody- why make them shuffle more just so they can sleep under your supervision and not grandma's?

 

[mistoffolees]

would she even really need to file contempt or just a petition to modify custody- specifically the ROFR portion.
Try to talk to dad first and explain that you would like a more solid ROFR clause in your papers because the one you have is very vague- see if you can agree to something together.
That would cause less trouble between the 2 of you than just hitting him with contempt charges.
And make the ROFR reasonable. I actually know someone's whose states if either party will be gone from the children more than 6 normal awake hours. So, if the child goes to bed at 8 and dad leaves at 6 and will be back before kiddo awakes- no big deal- it is less than 6 normal awake hours.
Kids shuffle a lot with 50/50 custody- why make them shuffle more just so they can sleep under your supervision and not grandma's?

She can possibly file a motion to modify rather than contempt - but motion to modify may require a substantial change in circumstances, so she may not be able to do so in her state.

 

[kia1987]

Yes my daughter is 4 she goes to bed between 9 and 10. I am going to start putting her to bed earlier because shes is starting school. So that is 3 hours that my child will be spending with me. To me that in priceless. I do not think that his parents should have a right to have her all the time just because it was his time to have her. This is the issue. I stated that as one instance when I said he went out from 6-4am. What about him not getting up until 12pm and having his mom care for her? Is that okay just becuase hes laying in bed in the same house. I do not see how it is okay for him to just to be in the same house and have his mother care for her when he is there. I know this is the case because my daughter tells me who dresses her and gives her baths and stuff. If he is not going to care for her, I think me being the mother should be doing it. My daughter told me the other day she wishes she could be with me all the time. And as for me being told to grow up. I do not think that is childish to want to spend a few more hours with my child. I was young and pushed into a agreement with him. I did not know that I could ask for anything else. Now I see how it is affecting my daughter and I am looking to make things better for her. All I did when I came on here was ask for some advice on the information I gave. Not to be told to grow up or that I was being petty.

 

[milspecgirl]

if dad is there- whether he is sleeping or not, you have no right to the child under ROFR.

Dad is free to parent the child as he sees fit during his time and if that is by using grandma, that is his right.

You have a 50/50 split because you agreed to it (for whatever the reason). Most judges wont order it unless the parents agree because you have to be able to co-parent very well and let the little things go. A couple of hours here and there is not a huge deal. No judge is going to allow u to have the child just cause dad is sleeping and grandma is caring for her a couple of hours.
If you start taking petty stuff like this into court (dad is sleeping in the next room so I want kiddo), a judge is likely to decide you cant co-parent and give the child to the parent who can.

So, ask for the ROFR to be clarified (or file contempt- whatever your state requires) but be realistic in your expectations. And remember they will come back to haunt you. Dont plan on sending kiddo to spend the night with grandma or auntie or anyone else without allowing dad 1st opportunity if you expect him to hand over kiddo every time he isnt with her.

 

[Just Blue]

Yes my daughter is 4 she goes to bed between 9 and 10. I am going to start putting her to bed earlier because shes is starting school. So that is 3 hours that my child will be spending with me. To me that in priceless. I do not think that his parents should have a right to have her all the time just because it was his time to have her. This is the issue. I stated that as one instance when I said he went out from 6-4am. What about him not getting up until 12pm and having his mom care for her? Is that okay just becuase hes laying in bed in the same house. I do not see how it is okay for him to just to be in the same house and have his mother care for her when he is there. I know this is the case because my daughter tells me who dresses her and gives her baths and stuff. If he is not going to care for her, I think me being the mother should be doing it. My daughter told me the other day she wishes she could be with me all the time. And as for me being told to grow up. I do not think that is childish to want to spend a few more hours with my child. I was young and pushed into a agreement with him. I did not know that I could ask for anything else. Now I see how it is affecting my daughter and I am looking to make things better for her. All I did when I came on here was ask for some advice on the information I gave. Not to be told to grow up or that I was being petty.

Wow. You allow a FOUR YO to stay up that late...Wow.

And yes. You ARE being petty. And DO need to grow up. You and Dad have 14 more years to go and at this rate it will be miserable for this child.

 

[stealth2]

Yeah - 9/10pm for a 4yo is.... pretty late. What time does she get up?