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College educated combat passed over for job by civilian (job stated vets preference)

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avssuc

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law): Mississippi

I'm an unemployed, 20% VA disabled combat veteran that was passed over for employment by someone that ‘I suspect’ has no military/combat service. So these are the details I can provide as my 3 year old son attacks me for attention:

I'm a 15 year combat decorated member of the military. 10 years active, 5 National Guard (I continue to serve). I have a VA disability rating of 20% relating to combat and other injuries. I have an undergraduate in history, post graduate work in intelligence, and have spent more than a decade in military intelligence. I'm also unemployed, drawing unemployment benefits.

I recently applied for a position at a non-profit organization that, as a large part of their work, services homeless and jobless veterans. The position was one where I would be directly dealing with homeless/jobless veterans. After my first interview, the president narrowed the list to two people. I was selected as the first person to re-interview, and think I interviewed strongly from a personal standpoint. Still, through the interview, I had a suspicion that a decision was made prior to me even stepping foot in the room.

The interview (conducted on 2/17/2016) consisted of 4 employees asking me a series of questions[/U]. The demographic of the panel was 3 female 'non-veterans' (to include the president), and 1 male veteran.

From the beginning of the interview, the president of the organization was on her phone texting, emailing, or doing something else. This was going on for a majority of the meeting, and distracted me slightly, but not to the extent of losing focus. Through the questioning process, I was reminded of my young age (36 years old) and how it was a "barrier in dealing with older homeless veterans". The reminders were seemingly ad nauseam by the elder female member of the panel. I've worked as an interrogator, source operator, and analyst in military intelligence, and picked up some body language indicators from 3 or the 4. They were all less than appealing.

When I left the office, the next person to interview was waiting. It was a woman that I suspect was in her mid 50's. Statistically speaking, her chances of being a veteran are slim, chances of being a combat vet are close to 0. I was told that a decision would be made near the end of the week (several days), but I was emailed the next morning, less than 24 hours later, and told this:

"Thank you for your time to interview and interest in our Employment Counselor position. However, we have filled the position with another well-qualified applicant."

I called in to speak about the decision several hours later. He informed me that he was HR and had nothing to do with the process, and the president was not available... but she would give me a call to discuss the matter tomorrow. I will be waiting by my phone for this call, but wanted some advice.

I am beyond perplexed. Working with veterans is a passion of mine. I do it in my spare time with hopes I don't lose any more of my friends (more vets period) to suicide.

What can I do here? They are a non-profit, so is that an barrier to seeking justice, on the outside chance that I've been discriminated against? They do rely on federal grants.

If I can't find employment soon, I'm going to be in their office, talking with the person they hired 'instead of me'... about getting some sort of aid to cover bills for my wife, my son, and myself! I don't want to rush to judgement here, but if my suspicion is correct, I was simply used as a piece of liability insurance in their hiring process. If that's the case, I want justice.

Thank you for your help.


v/r

Jim


Oh, and first time poster, the screen name is hockey related. As a Detroit Red Wings fan, the SN says it all.
 
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cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Unless you have some real evidence that you were not hired because of your membership in a group protected by law, there is nothing you can do. Just because you don't think the next applicant to come in after you was a veteran (and how would you know? My sister, who is over 50, retired from the Navy with 20 years of service. She's 5'3 and weighs 115 pounds soaking wet with heavy shoes on but she's nonetheless a veteran) does not mean that either she was the person hired, or that the person hired was not qualified. They owe you neither a job nor an explanation of why you weren't hired/who was hired.
 

avssuc

Junior Member
What happens when I go in seeking benifits and confirm my suspicion?

Also, Navy vets that served in peacetime know squat about the horrors of war. How many of her friends were blown to pieces for no good reason at all?
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
What happens when I go in seeking benifits and confirm my suspicion?

Also, Navy vets that served in peacetime know squat about the horrors of war. How many of her friends were blown to pieces for no good reason at all?
I can't even answer this.
 

davew128

Senior Member
Also, Navy vets that served in peacetime know squat about the horrors of war. How many of her friends were blown to pieces for no good reason at all?
Some of them went on to be Senators and Secretary of State after throwing their navy medals over a wall. And Yzerman was overrated.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
Using OP's reasoning, Marines get first crack at jobs. Then Army. After them, the Navy, I suppose, with AF taking the leftovers as usual.

Is that how it works?
 

Rwedunyet

Member
What happens when I go in seeking benifits and confirm my suspicion?

Also, Navy vets that served in peacetime know squat about the horrors of war. How many of her friends were blown to pieces for no good reason at all?
Thank you, sir, for your service to our country. As the big sister to a wonderful Marine who served 4 tours in Iraq, and came home to live on disability after watching many of his platoon die through the years, I am grateful. It's an honorable passion that you have, to serve those soldiers who came home injured physically and mentally. I see those injuries in my baby brother when he remembers how one of his "brothers' died in his arms after stepping on a landmine.

It is with all due respect (and that is alot of respect) that I wonder if you went into the interview sounding as arrogant as your initial post sounded? I am sure that you did not intend to sound that way, but you did and it is a put off.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
What happens when I go in seeking benifits and confirm my suspicion?

Also, Navy vets that served in peacetime know squat about the horrors of war. How many of her friends were blown to pieces for no good reason at all?
Wow, brother. Wrong attitude trooper.

REMFs - to include most of the 5 branches - are every bit as much veterans as those of us that have ground combat tours in the sandbox. Just because they may have been fortunate enough to not have to cash that check for their backside they wrote, doesn't make their willingness to serve any less valuable or important.

I was armor and have two combat patches - 3ID and 1AD. I also served with 3ACR. Been there, done that, got the shirt.
Frankly from the tenor of your posting on this thread, you might be having some issues with adaptation. Please contact the Vet Center, the VA, or whatever support group you are participating in. If you are not - join one. It helps. Sometimes you need to lean on someone - sometimes someone needs to lean on you.

TD

(19k20 - active / 31b20 reserves)
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Thank you, sir, for your service to our country. As the big sister to a wonderful Marine who served 4 tours in Iraq, and came home to live on disability after watching many of his platoon die through the years, I am grateful. It's an honorable passion that you have, to serve those soldiers who came home injured physically and mentally. I see those injuries in my baby brother when he remembers how one of his "brothers' died in his arms after stepping on a landmine.

It is with all due respect (and that is alot of respect) that I wonder if you went into the interview sounding as arrogant as your initial post sounded? I am sure that you did not intend to sound that way, but you did and it is a put off.
This.

I strongly doubt this Op is skilled enough to hide such a frankly shameful attitude.
 

commentator

Senior Member
Veteran's preference does not mean they must necessarily hire the vet over the non vet. It just means that they are committed to giving veterans at least an equal, and sometimes a more preferential position in the interview process. Using you as "a piece of liability insurance in their hiring process" is perfectly legal and absolutely their right. No one is FORCED to hire someone.

For many years, I watched a process in state civil service, which is even more restricted and required to give veteran's preference than the place you interviewed with, which I suspect may have been a private contractor who administers federal monies. The thing is, vets were given preference in referrals to the job, where they may have fifteen interviewees with degrees and fairly equal amounts of experience. You got into the top two or three. But once you are up there, there is still the tiresome duty of selling yourself. That you "want" to work with vets is in no way an indicator that you would be good at doing it.
Counseling others requires many skills you may not have picked up in a military setting. For one thing, how would you relate to those veterans who are not real enough for you, who worked in the offices, who did not get combat wounded, but still need help now? So you could work with the worst of the worst damaged, because you (thousand yard stare here) have seen the worst. That doesn't make a counselor of you.

And even more than working with the vets, it is also a matter of working with the powers that be to help these vets obtain services. With this "we vets are going to get messed on, and we have to demand our rights!" attitude, you probably will not be very helpful, because a lot of these vets you'd be serving will have this same attitude, and will have already had problems working with civilian organizations and bureaucracies. They don't need a counselor who reinforces this.

And of course there is just the plain old likeability factor. No one is going to hire a ****y jerk who already, without real experience in doing this type of work, already knows much more about how to do it and the clients and the system and how everything has to work than the boss who is going to have to supervise them. Two minutes after you walked in, they perceived that they did not want to spend quality time in an office environment with you, because you would not relate to or respect anyone who has not had your particular experiences. It would be difficult for you to accept supervision, we can tell that just from your posts here.

You need to work not at suing somebody to force them to give you a job, which you don't have any case for that I can see, but in being perceived as a person who can do the job without bias or lack of respect for others.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
I have no further responses for this poster. In view of his service to his country I will not tell him what I think of his attitude or his assumption that he is entitled to a job, or his assumption that he can tell by looking at someone whether or not they served.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
This poster sounds like an excellent candidate for self-employment. He's got a strong attitude and would do well at being a business owner, as opposed to an employee. I am not saying this with sarcasm or snark - I truly believe that if this poster found a suitable business opportunity/model, he would be successful.
 

RRevak

Senior Member
OP i'm going to be straight with you..

Yes it does appear you might potentially have an issue with civilian adaption. I'm willing to speculate that was picked up on during your interview process which, whether you wish to hear it or not, makes you a possible liability. I understand you feel you're more qualified due to your "experiences" but when those experiences potentially cause you to become an issue yourself, the employer must then weigh the benefits vs. risks of hiring you. They *seemingly* decided your risks outweighed your possible benefits. Is it wrong? Maybe, maybe not. Again, i'm only speculating here.

Also your military experience does not automatically mean you're qualified to work with veterans. Working with veterans is an extremely demanding job that requires skills in the psychology arena as well as therapeutic. You'll need to be fine tuned in understanding mental health as well as the struggles that come with poverty and addiction. That isn't a job that just any layman is qualified to do. I know this because I have a family member who has just recently changed jobs and now works with veterans. Her positions before that were in several state/private hospitals working with mentally ill and before that she worked with the Department of Children and Families with juveniles. She has also done extensive community work with at risk homeless women and teens. While she has no military experience other than being the child of military parents and the majority of the rest of her family being military, her degrees in Psychology and Sociology as well as her many years experience in working with mentally ill have more than qualified her to work where she does. She has a genuine passion for her job as we have lost a family member to combat related suicide and she genuinely wants to help veterans. You need to see that your military training is not equal to actual training in working with struggling veterans. Its the same coin yes, but two different sides.
 
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Just Blue

Senior Member
I have no further responses for this poster. In view of his service to his country I will not tell him what I think of his attitude or his assumption that he is entitled to a job, or his assumption that he can tell by looking at someone whether or not they served.
Wow...Just wow!!

How could not want to help this Richard?? "he' is a vet that has done "something" for our country....:rolleyes:



And I am being factious toward this OP...;)

I can't drop the "f" Bomb as I would like to. :(
 
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