Can't force child to abort baby?

[CTU]

She is a very difficult child. She fights me about everything. Simple things like making dinner, getting her to eat and buying clothes are hard. Her sister is an angel so I don't know why it's like this. She has resented me since I adopted her and her biological sister. I tried so hard but I think their bio parents didn't have any rules because as soon as I started to tell her what to do and give her chores, it was over. I know it's not me because her sister reacted very well and is very happy with me.

I don't know what to do. I have tried everything. I work from home and I don't take my eyes off of her.

If she has the baby that would mean that this boy will stay in our lives and she's not even allowed to see him. He's too old for her. He's 17. I don't even know where she met him and she won't tell me anything. He has a lot of piercings and some tattoos and he smokes cigarettes.

She has been skipping school to go see him because I've been keeping a close eye on her when she's at home. He buys her inappropriate clothing that she's not allowed to have and she'll come home with black lipstick and nail polish on sometimes and weird clothes with holes and zippers all over them. My girls are only allowed to have their ears pierced once like normal young ladies but she keeps putting extra holes in hers and she even pierced her own nose. I make her take them out and she keeps doing it again.

Sometimes, she climbs out her second story window at night while I'm asleep and she comes back in at six or seven in the morning. I don't know what I can do. Her psychologist even says that I'm doing everything I can.

What are my options? If she has the baby, how do I keep this man away from my family?

When she disobeys you, what do you do?

(Punishment-wise)

Do you know why she's so keen on this 17 year old? Because he is showing he cares about her. In her young and very confused mind, he cares about her more than you. In her mind she has no freedom or, at the very least, has no freedom when it comes to such a basic right (in her mind) as choosing her own clothes. Her boyfriend on the other hand offers her comfort and care and reassures her that everything will be alright, and he'll take care of her. In other words, he'll do whatever it is you're failing to do.

Then we have her sister. In your daughter's mind, her sister is your favorite and you have made it known to her very clearly. That's going to take hard work on your part to change her perception.

Finally, we have you. It is troublesome that you are not acknowledging your part in this. You have stated clearly "It's not me". But consider this. You are not just the adult here, you are the PARENT. I think you believe that raising all of your children in the exact same manner will work perfectly ... well, it won't. You can water and feed 8 crocuses using the same food, the same water and the same amount of sunshine ... and sometimes, one of them just won't react the same way. You'll need to adapt the water level and type of food.

It's a lousy analogy but it's Monday, still early for me and I haven't yet finished my coffee so it is what it is.

You've received some excellent advice here this morning. Take it and process it for awhile before you come back to answer.

 

[Ohiogal]

When disobeys you, what do you do?

(Punishment-wise)

Do you know why she's so keen on this 17 year old? Because he is showing he cares about her. In her young and very confused mind, he cares about her more than you. In her mind she has no freedom or, at the very least, has no freedom when it comes to such a basic right (in her mind) as choosing her own clothes. Her boyfriend on the other hand offers her comfort and care and reassures her that everything will be alright, and he'll take care of her. In other words, he'll do whatever it is you're failing to do.

Then we have her sister. In your daughter's mind, her sister is your favorite and you have made it known to her very clearly. That's going to take hard work on your part to change her perception.

Finally, we have you. It is troublesome that you are not acknowledging your part in this. You have stated clearly "It's not me". But consider this. You are not just the adult here, you are the PARENT. I think you believe that raising all of your children in the exact same manner will work perfectly ... well, it won't. You can water and feed 8 crocuses using the same food, the same water and the same amount of sunshine ... and sometimes, one of them just won't react the same way. You'll need to adapt the water level and type of food.

It's a lousy analogy but it's Monday, still early for me and I haven't yet finished my coffee so it is what it is.

You've received some excellent advice here this morning. Take it and process it for awhile before you come back to answer.

Again, I NEED MY LIKE BUTTON BACK! Yes. Yes yes. I agree 100%.

 

[CdwJava]

Why this seemingly impetuous need to blame the parent/guardian in these situations? It seems that some here have a knee-jerk response to blame the parent when the parent is seemingly incapable of controlling a recalcitrant child. Folks, sometimes it actually IS the child who is the problem. I see a lot of bitterness on these boards towards step-parents, in particular, and I don't understand why.

None of us can KNOW what the issue is here, but to simply accuse this man of being the problem seems premature. We don't know that he hasn't tried different things with this child. It could also be that this child is severely damaged from what occurred before, and may also have some medical and/or psych. issues as well. It could well be that this parent would not be able to reach this child no matter what he did. Yes, there are children who cannot be reached - at least, not easily. And what parent has not made mistakes?

Legally, dad (yes, I am calling him "dad" because that is what he effectively, and likely LEGALLY, is to these girls) cannot compel this teen to abort her child. As had been previously mentioned, he CAN control her comings and goings, her environment, and most aspects of her life except for that involving her child. And, until she is 18 and on her own, or a court orders it, he can prevent the miscreant who fathered this child from seeing or communicating with his daughter. I agree that counseling and therapy are in order for all involved, and if the previous therapist is not working, then a new therapist or program should be sought. Maybe it's time for them to do a proverbial reset on their relationship. But, I can pretty much guarantee that dad is not the sole source of the problem here.

 

[Ohiogal]

Why this seemingly impetuous need to blame the parent/guardian in these situations? It seems that some here have a knee-jerk response to blame the parent when the parent is seemingly incapable of controlling a recalcitrant child. Folks, sometimes it actually IS the child who is the problem. I see a lot of bitterness on these boards towards step-parents, in particular, and I don't understand why.

None of us can KNOW what the issue is here, but to simply accuse this man of being the problem seems premature. We don't know that he hasn't tried different things with this child. It could also be that this child is severely damaged from what occurred before, and may also have some medical and/or psych. issues as well. It could well be that this parent would not be able to reach this child no matter what he did. Yes, there are children who cannot be reached - at least, not easily. And what parent has not made mistakes?

Legally, dad (yes, I am calling him "dad" because that is what he effectively, and likely LEGALLY, is to these girls) cannot compel this teen to abort her child. As had been previously mentioned, he CAN control her comings and goings, her environment, and most aspects of her life except for that involving her child. And, until she is 18 and on her own, or a court orders it, he can prevent the miscreant who fathered this child from seeing or communicating with his daughter. I agree that counseling and therapy are in order for all involved, and if the previous therapist is not working, then a new therapist or program should be sought. Maybe it's time for them to do a proverbial reset on their relationship. But, I can pretty much guarantee that dad is not the sole source of the problem here.

The fact that HE WANTED TO FORCE her to abort doesn't seem to be a problem with you. No one said dad is the sole source... BUT HE IS PART OF IT. Why don't you recognize it?

 

[CTU]

Why this seemingly impetuous need to blame the parent/guardian in these situations? It seems that some here have a knee-jerk response to blame the parent when the parent is seemingly incapable of controlling a recalcitrant child. Folks, sometimes it actually IS the child who is the problem. I see a lot of bitterness on these boards towards step-parents, in particular, and I don't understand why.

None of us can KNOW what the issue is here, but to simply accuse this man of being the problem seems premature. We don't know that he hasn't tried different things with this child. It could also be that this child is severely damaged from what occurred before, and may also have some medical and/or psych. issues as well. It could well be that this parent would not be able to reach this child no matter what he did. Yes, there are children who cannot be reached - at least, not easily. And what parent has not made mistakes?

Legally, dad (yes, I am calling him "dad" because that is what he effectively, and likely LEGALLY, is to these girls) cannot compel this teen to abort her child. As had been previously mentioned, he CAN control her comings and goings, her environment, and most aspects of her life except for that involving her child. And, until she is 18 and on her own, or a court orders it, he can prevent the miscreant who fathered this child from seeing or communicating with his daughter. I agree that counseling and therapy are in order for all involved, and if the previous therapist is not working, then a new therapist or program should be sought. Maybe it's time for them to do a proverbial reset on their relationship. But, I can pretty much guarantee that dad is not the sole source of the problem here.

That's a pretty large umbrella you're using there.

I suppose I expected something different. My bad.

 

[CTU]

The fact that HE WANTED TO FORCE her to abort doesn't seem to be a problem with you. No one said dad is the sole source... BUT HE IS PART OF IT. Why don't you recognize it?

It's much easier to paint many different items with one brush. Some people spend their lives doing so, some prefer to use different shades as appropriate.

 

[Ohiogal]

It's much easier to paint many different items with one brush. Some people spend their lives doing so, some prefer to use different shades as appropriate.

I don't see how this father -- and I am not sure that he is LEGALLY the children's FATHER and not just the legal custodian because he refuses to answer about the adoption -- would ever think it is appropriate to FORCE a child to have an abortion. To force this girl to have an abortion -- as what? Some sort of punishment. And he came here to get approval for that. HOW does anyone see that as appropriate action for any parent?

 

[CTU]

I don't see how this father -- and I am not sure that he is LEGALLY the children's FATHER and not just the legal custodian because he refuses to answer about the adoption -- would ever think it is appropriate to FORCE a child to have an abortion. To force this girl to have an abortion -- as what? Some sort of punishment. And he came here to get approval for that. HOW does anyone see that as appropriate action for any parent?

It was less about the punishment issue for me than it was about the notion that Dad thought it was his right to actually force her to get an abortion.

Now I will say that I see a very tired, very fed-up Dad who is just about at the end of his rope. It doesn't excuse anything, but I do see a level of frustration that might - just might - halfway explain why he's at the end of said rope.

That being said, he needs more help than we can give him. He knows now that he cannot force his minor child to have an abortion, and he knows that baby Daddy will be allowed around Baby Daddy's child which usually means that Very Young Mama and Baby Daddy will be seeing each other on a fairly regular basis.

It also seems a bit like closing the gate after the horse has already bolted, but that's by the by.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Perhaps OP might make more progress by "accepting" the 14 year old's apparent choice and prepare her for parenthood. Get her into parenting classes, help out with small children (church nursery/preschool), discuss topics from "What to Expect When You're Expecting"... whether she wants to breastfeed or use formula, cloth or disposable diapers, etc.

 

[c0rd]

Ohio, I had to call to ask about the custodian vs. adoption because I’m not familiar. I wasn’t refusing to answer anyone, I was taking some time to process, busy working and I was trying to get the answer that you were asking for. I didn’t know that there was a difference between having legal custody and being their father. I didn’t think it mattered because I love these girls like my own and I consider myself their father.

I looked into it and I don’t think they’re legally adopted because jailbird dad didn’t consent to it even though mom never let him have contact with the children and he hasn’t had any contact with them in almost 10 years.

I’m sorry if I’m not the legal father. I didn’t mean to misrepresent myself. I didn’t know. I’m still the only parent they have if I’m a legal parent or not.

I do have legal custody and biodad does not. Mom is MIA and dad has no contact with the children because he’s a murderer. I don’t understand how I can be the only person who has custody of them and not legally be their father. It sounds strange. Maybe that’s wrong? I don’t know.

I’ll stop using her sister as an example and say all of my children, every one of them. They’re not perfect. I don’t say that they’ve never done anything wrong but none of them have fought me, not like this and not about every little thing. She isn’t her sister but my other daughters weren’t her sister either and they came out just fine. My sons weren’t her sister but they came out fine. My children have different personalities and different styles but none of them have given me this kind of trouble.

I don’t want her to abort the baby as punishment. I want her to do it because it’s the right thing to do. She’s a child. A child can’t raise a child. I want what is best for her and that is best for her. I’m not trying to hurt her, I’m trying to get her to do what is best for her future. What kind of a life would that be for her? What kind of a life would that be for the baby? Parenting is hard. It wasn’t easy for me when I was a married grownup with a job. She’s fourteen years old. She should be worried about school, her grades and her future, not raising a baby.

CTU, thank you for your thoughts and valuable feedback. It’s not a bad analogy. I like it.

Punishment is hard and it’s something that I’m working on with her psychologist. When she was younger, I would take things away for disobedience but we ran out of things to take away. I was restricting activities like dance class, cheerleading and sports but she started saying that she hates them anyway so we stopped doing that. She said once, hit me with your best shot. I have nothing left for you to take away. It’s hard to punish a child who doesn’t care about anything. I ground her but she climbs out her bedroom window and that’s very dangerous. She’s on the second floor.

Our hands are tied. I try giving her extra chores but she runs away and ignores them. The police won’t even look for her anymore when she goes missing. I started offering reinforcement for listening and doing basic things that she should be doing anyway like homework but she says it’s “table scraps” and she rejects any reward I offer her.

This should show everyone that I have tried to adapt. I’ve tried new things. I’ve tried compromising with her but she won’t compromise. She wants it her way or the highway. I’m not perfect and I never said I was but I have tried everything to make this work.

Java, thank you very much for everything you’ve said. I know I’m not perfect but she really is a difficult child. She is diagnosed with ADHD and it’s medication-resistant. We have tried a lot of different treatments for that too and nothing has worked.

This is still all very new to me and I just found out less than two weeks ago so emotions are running high. We need to have a serious conversation about this very soon. I get it. I can accept that we’ll be raising this baby together with that boy. I just need to talk to her and figure everything out but talking to her isn’t easy.

Thank you to everyone who has been civil and understanding. I am exhausted. I never doubted myself as a parent before but she makes me think twice. I was not equipped for this one.

 

[c0rd]

I always tried not to yell at my kids before and I tried to keep an even temper and talk to them about things but with her, I feel like I'm always yelling. All I do is yell because it's all I can do. She screams back and throws tantrums. She throws things. She threw a drinking glass at me once and barely missed me. We switched to all plastic cups after that.

Her sister cries because she hates the fighting. I hate the fighting, too. This is every day at our house. I worry about her every minute and I can't sleep when she runs away but sometimes I feel like it's better when she's gone for a while because at least we get some peace and a break from the fighting. She's been staying away for whole evenings and sometimes even overnight since she was TWELVE. I am on anxiety medication because of all of this. I see a psychologist (a different one than the kids) because of this.

I really do love her the same as my biological children and the same as her sister. I wouldn't be this upset about it if I didn't.

 

[CTU]

Ohio, I had to call to ask about the custodian vs. adoption because I’m not familiar. I wasn’t refusing to answer anyone, I was taking some time to process, busy working and I was trying to get the answer that you were asking for. I didn’t know that there was a difference between having legal custody and being their father. I didn’t think it mattered because I love these girls like my own and I consider myself their father.

I looked into it and I don’t think they’re legally adopted because jailbird dad didn’t consent to it even though mom never let him have contact with the children and he hasn’t had any contact with them in almost 10 years.

I’m sorry if I’m not the legal father. I didn’t mean to misrepresent myself. I didn’t know. I’m still the only parent they have if I’m a legal parent or not.

I do have legal custody and biodad does not. Mom is MIA and dad has no contact with the children because he’s a murderer. I don’t understand how I can be the only person who has custody of them and not legally be their father. It sounds strange. Maybe that’s wrong? I don’t know.

I’ll stop using her sister as an example and say all of my children, every one of them. They’re not perfect. I don’t say that they’ve never done anything wrong but none of them have fought me, not like this and not about every little thing. She isn’t her sister but my other daughters weren’t her sister either and they came out just fine. My sons weren’t her sister but they came out fine. My children have different personalities and different styles but none of them have given me this kind of trouble.

I don’t want her to abort the baby as punishment. I want her to do it because it’s the right thing to do. She’s a child. A child can’t raise a child. I want what is best for her and that is best for her. I’m not trying to hurt her, I’m trying to get her to do what is best for her future. What kind of a life would that be for her? What kind of a life would that be for the baby? Parenting is hard. It wasn’t easy for me when I was a married grownup with a job. She’s fourteen years old. She should be worried about school, her grades and her future, not raising a baby.

CTU, thank you for your thoughts and valuable feedback. It’s not a bad analogy. I like it.

Punishment is hard and it’s something that I’m working on with her psychologist. When she was younger, I would take things away for disobedience but we ran out of things to take away. I was restricting activities like dance class, cheerleading and sports but she started saying that she hates them anyway so we stopped doing that. She said once, hit me with your best shot. I have nothing left for you to take away. It’s hard to punish a child who doesn’t care about anything. I ground her but she climbs out her bedroom window and that’s very dangerous. She’s on the second floor.

Our hands are tied. I try giving her extra chores but she runs away and ignores them. The police won’t even look for her anymore when she goes missing. I started offering reinforcement for listening and doing basic things that she should be doing anyway like homework but she says it’s “table scraps” and she rejects any reward I offer her.

This should show everyone that I have tried to adapt. I’ve tried new things. I’ve tried compromising with her but she won’t compromise. She wants it her way or the highway. I’m not perfect and I never said I was but I have tried everything to make this work.

Java, thank you very much for everything you’ve said. I know I’m not perfect but she really is a difficult child. She is diagnosed with ADHD and it’s medication-resistant. We have tried a lot of different treatments for that too and nothing has worked.

This is still all very new to me and I just found out less than two weeks ago so emotions are running high. We need to have a serious conversation about this very soon. I get it. I can accept that we’ll be raising this baby together with that boy. I just need to talk to her and figure everything out but talking to her isn’t easy.

Thank you to everyone who has been civil and understanding. I am exhausted. I never doubted myself as a parent before but she makes me think twice. I was not equipped for this one.

Okay.

You aren't the legal parent, but you do have custody. This is what we now know.

Cord, all I can do is wish you and your family the best of luck. I think you are trying, and are just exhausted. But take what you can from the responses here, and take some time to digest everything.

 

[Ohiogal]

I always tried not to yell at my kids before and I tried to keep an even temper and talk to them about things but with her, I feel like I'm always yelling. All I do is yell because it's all I can do. She screams back and throws tantrums. She throws things. She threw a drinking glass at me once and barely missed me. We switched to all plastic cups after that.

Her sister cries because she hates the fighting. I hate the fighting, too. This is every day at our house. I worry about her every minute and I can't sleep when she runs away but sometimes I feel like it's better when she's gone for a while because at least we get some peace and a break from the fighting. She's been staying away for whole evenings and sometimes even overnight since she was TWELVE. I am on anxiety medication because of all of this. I see a psychologist (a different one than the kids) because of this.

I really do love her the same as my biological children and the same as her sister. I wouldn't be this upset about it if I didn't.

She is resentful. That is easy to say. The problem you need to realize is she doesn't see you as her father because SHE HAS A FATHER. He may be a murderer but she remembers him. She grew up with him. Saying that she can call you dad, you came when HER dad disappeared, that can really mess with a child.

You need to change HOW you react and act towards her. You need to actually sit down and hear her out. I have seen you state what YOU want regarding this child's pregnancy, but what does SHE want to do? Be ON HER side now. NOT against her. Find out what she wants and why. Work through it in counseling with her. But don't make demands that she WILL abort and she WILL NOT have this child. That is going to make her run harder and further than ever. And truthfully, you are treading very carefully to state involvement for even asking why you can NOT force her to abort. You need to recognize that you are PART of the problem.

As CTU said, you cannot parent her the same as you did every one else. She is an individual. She is not just another child. She is her own individual person. Whose dad disappeared and whose mom handed her over to a stranger like she was trash before disappearing. That is a problem. But you constantly saying how easy all the other kids are and making comments that she is not normal.... You can't do that. Not at all. You can't compare her and what her normal is to everyone else.

Wearing all black? Not a problem. LET HER. It hurts no one. Having black lipstick and nail polish? Not a problem there. Especially if ALL your other girls wore lipstick (bet you didn't allow any of the boys to wear makeup). Multiple piercings? Not saying you have to like them but if you allow her to experiment with her clothing and makeup, you may find that those wins are enough and she will wait on more piercings until she is older (18).

But seriously, you need to recognize that you are a part of this problem. And if you don't, then there is no solution for this child in your home.

 

[CdwJava]

The fact that HE WANTED TO FORCE her to abort doesn't seem to be a problem with you. No one said dad is the sole source... BUT HE IS PART OF IT. Why don't you recognize it?

There's a difference between "force" as in holding her down and making her do it, and seeking to compel what could be seen as a medical procedure. As a note, I am pro-life and opposed to abortion, but, I understand the frustration of a parent who feels impotent when it comes to their children's medical decisions.

And, I can see that dad may be part of the problem in that anyone - even if they are entirely in the right - can be part of a problem. The vitriol targeted against dad is ... well ... extraordinary. I wonder why?

 

[CdwJava]

That's a pretty large umbrella you're using there.

I suppose I expected something different. My bad.

What umbrella is that? The same umbrella that seems to accuse the OP of being evil incarnate because he has a child that seems to be out of his control?