Does writing "loan" in a check notation prove there was a loan?

[MellieP]

Of course.



You mean ask you for payment? Yes.


No, I did not mean "ask for payment". If he phrased it by saying "Unless you can prove this was repaid, the court will require you to pay it". What I mean by harassment is that I have repeatedly told him I paid it back, but he continues to say "pay it back". I have repeatedly told him I don't have any written proof, but he continues to ask for it as if he doesn't already know this. He likes to play little games where he pretends not to have read the emails he's responding to, so he can repeat himself. He has even shared stories where he would do this to his co-workers just to antagonize them for his own amusement. He's extremely immature.

 

[HRZ]

There are near zero odds of successfully sticking you for an executors choice of attorney's bill. THe net available to distribute to heirs seems to be zero in your example

IF Mom honestly forgave the loan, even orally, it would be end game ? Be honest .

IF Mom agreed to pay certain of your expenses in return for helping her, you are entitled to bill estate for any such unpaid items ....now your odds of collection are about zip ...but you may annoy the executor.

 

[MellieP]

There are near zero odds of successfully sticking you for an executors choice of attorney's bill. THe net available to distribute to heirs seems to be zero in your example

IF Mom honestly forgave the loan, even orally, it would be end game ? Be honest .

IF Mom agreed to pay certain of your expenses in return for helping her, you are entitled to bill estate for any such unpaid items ....now your odds of collection are about zip ...but you may annoy the executor.

Ha, are you telling me it could annoy the executor as a tip or a warning?

I'm not sure what you mean by "it would be end game". Mom did *honestly* forgive the "loan". It's annoying that she wrote loan when it really wasn't a loan, when she told me to just put it towards my travel expenses. It was money she intended to put into my trip. I can't prove that she was going to otherwise just hand me her card for the duration of the trip. But I certainly didn't expect this to be an issue.

 

[HRZ]

You are talking in circles, the written comment on the check trumps a lot of oral whatever's....you can read, you cashed it ...it was loan as written....now with a straight face IF you can show it was forgiven at a letter date ...so be it !

You and your brother are engaged in a foolish quest over a rather small sum ...I doubt the estate attorney is going to spend serious time on this one .

I'm suggesting I'd there are legitimate things Mom actually agreed to pay you for your services that were not yet paid , send the estate a prompt written notice of sums due you .

 

[MellieP]

Thank you for letting me know he can't stick me with the bill.

When I found out he wasn't footing the bill, and the estate does, and he was very frivolous with his emails to her (racking up her bill) and whoops, estate money is gone, guess "we" have to pay her bill, I felt completely tricked. I was not getting a lawyer, I only went to the first meeting because he invited me. He encouraged me to keep asking her email questions, and I didn't because I thought he was paying and I didn't want to charge him. But he racked up the bill willy nilly. And then I wonder "oh my God did I sign anything at that meeting?" I don't remember and neither does my husband who was also there. But if I had, I still would have thought I was signing to give her attorney rights or something, I would have still thought my brother was paying. I told her my concerns and she said "Nobody is saying you have to pay my bill" so hopefully that will suffice.

 

[MellieP]

You are talking in circles, the written comment on the check trumps a lot of oral whatever's....you can read, you cashed it ...it was loan as written....now with a straight face IF you can show it was forgiven at a letter date ...so be it !

You and your brother are engaged in a foolish quest over a rather small sum ...I doubt the estate attorney is going to spend serious time on this one .

I'm suggesting I'd there are legitimate things Mom actually agreed to pay you for your services that were not yet paid , send the estate a prompt written notice of sums due you .

Thanks HRZ, I'll send an invoice and maybe said services were paid by tip expenses. He has been insisting from the start that the attorney is GREATLY concerned about this, "as it could be seen as an attempt to avoid paying creditors" in probate. First he's saying it could be seen as me attempting to avoid them, then he said it could be seen as my mom's attempt to give her cash away and pay her creditors when she was alive.

I really didn't ask for this nonsense. My brother is hellbent on making my life miserable and hurting me.....all because I said I wasn't paying for the attorney, which he knew I wasn't from the start. So he's angry that he didn't trick me into paying, I guess? And called me an "ingrate" and just a bunch of other wonderful abusive things. I was told that he has to turn over all our correspondence to the court so it's pretty shocking that he thinks this is acceptable.

He also took a priceless photo album which I'm very certain he will not give back. At first he said I could have it. Then after our fight he said he changed is mind and wants to split it. Every time I ask for it he delays it. I believe he's just going to refuse to return it and hope that I'll take him to court so I can spend money. Then he'll claim they were lost in a fire or something. All my baby photos, school pictures, childhood memories, stolen. All to hurt me.

Anyway, thanks again. I'm not trying to talk in circles, I'm just very annoyed that she wrote loan. Yes, I can read, but I didn't read it. I cashed it without noticing she wrote "loan". She did not offer it as a loan, she just asked if I could use some money. I told her I would pay her back and she said "Just put it towards your expenses". So it's annoying that she wrote "loan".

 

[MellieP]

Oh and I already forwarded the info that I showed my brother (flight ticket, bank statements, photos) to the attorney and asked what else she needed. This was wednesday and she has yet to respond. Maybe that's good news, not sure.

 

[HRZ]

Be careful how you word things , the fact that you incurred expenses to care for mom does NOT mean you are entitled to repayment unless there as an agreement with her that you yourwould be repaid ,,if such was agreed.

 

[MellieP]

That was the agreement. Like I said, she asked me to come home to help her, at HER expense. She got the ball rolling by booking my flight on her credit card. She then intended for me to put everything on her card when I got there. But she fronted me the money, put "loan" on the check, and now I'm in mess.

Is there a way to word it to say that my services "worked off" the debt, on the invoice? It's all circumstantial, I can't prove that what I spent was repayment, or that she ever intended to pay my way. I can prove that I ordered things for her on amazon to show up when I was there (so I could install them), that I took pictures, and that there are witnesses to our verbal agreement.

 

[HRZ]

IF you can produce a reliable witness that she agreed to cover your expenses ...it sure might help your point of view . At least to offset what executor claims you owe estate . Technically you have a rather modest time window in which to submit a claim to executor against estate , so get it in promptly, if you believe its valid

 

[not2cleverRed]

Oh and I already forwarded the info that I showed my brother (flight ticket, bank statements, photos) to the attorney and asked what else she needed. This was wednesday and she has yet to respond. Maybe that's good news, not sure.

Keep looking for receipts for any little thing related to aiding your mother and put them aside.

You know how your brother is. Stop communicating with him, as it only feeds the mess. Communicate about the estate solely with the lawyer.

You are correct that limiting communicating with the lawyer, and keeping those communications to the (legal) point are key to keeping the cost down. Every email a lawyer reads is billable, as is every phone call, and heck, every text. Depending on the increments used, that can add up very quickly.

 

[MellieP]

Keep looking for receipts for any little thing related to aiding your mother and put them aside.

You know how your brother is. Stop communicating with him, as it only feeds the mess. Communicate about the estate solely with the lawyer.

You are correct that limiting communicating with the lawyer, and keeping those communications to the (legal) point are key to keeping the cost down. Every email a lawyer reads is billable, as is every phone call, and heck, every text. Depending on the increments used, that can add up very quickly.

Yeah I had to cut off contact with him and defer it all to my husband. Brother was complaining about the bill, and as a kind gesture I said "try to see if there's still time for us to make a claim for reimbursement of funeral expenses, you can use my half toward the bill." and he inexplicably played games with me, kept saying he doesn't follow. I repeated myself several times. I dont' even have to pay the lawyer, I was trying to be KIND to him. He comes back in two emails saying "So you're putting in that claim for yourself? Ok, I understand now". After that hostility, I cut him off. I dont' need this BS, when I'm trying to be kind.

I try to avoid talking to the lawyer to avoid racking up her bill. She once gave us info that was wrong, and she charged me for correcting her! The bill was larger than usually because she said she responded to me, because SHE was wrong. Unreal.

Brother can deal with my husband.

 

[LdiJ]

He's the executor because he lives in MA where my mom lived. I live in CA. He hired his own lawyer to be the estate lawyer. So it was the practical thing. If I had ANY idea that executors are allowed to get away with the crap he has done to me, I would never have agreed to let him be the executor. And the lawyer told me there's not much I can do, because even if I have a valid complaint, judges have little patience for motions to remove the executor and they favor the executor. I think you are correct about the jealousy, as it was well known I was my mom's favorite.

My Execubrother has been abusive and harassed me. I had to cut off contact with him this week (and defer all contact to my husband) because he would not stop being abusive in emails to me.

You are right that he was hoping for more of a bonanza. I told him we won't see a dime from the sale of the house. He held out hope. There are no dimes. It's insolvent. I told him so. I wish I had handed over my portion of the house to him and washed my hands of it. I think he's really upset that he put so much work into the house to get nothing. And he told me if there is an overage of the attorney's bill "we" would have to pay it. He's angry because I said "I'm not paying for that! I never agreed to pay a lawyer!". It's not my fault he chose to hire one. I'm still afraid he's going to stick me with half the bill.

In my opinion what is going on here is that because the estate is insolvent, there is no money to pay the attorney and therefore the attorney is telling you whatever can be said to try to convince you to put money into the estate. Therefore the attorney and your brother are digging at straws to try to find something that convinces you to pay something.

I completely disagree with the previous responses that you have been given indicating that you are liable for the alleged debt. Yes, the memo on the check could indicate a valid debt but your argument as to the conditions of the debt and your actions to repay is just as compelling.

 

[MellieP]

In my opinion what is going on here is that because the estate is insolvent, there is no money to pay the attorney and therefore the attorney is telling you whatever can be said to try to convince you to put money into the estate. Therefore the attorney and your brother are digging at straws to try to find something that convinces you to pay something.

I completely disagree with the previous responses that you have been given indicating that you are liable for the alleged debt. Yes, the memo on the check could indicate a valid debt but your argument as to the conditions of the debt and your actions to repay is just as compelling.

Thank you LdiJ. Yes, I completely agree this is all about getting as much money as possible because he says he's stuck with a $7k attorney bill after the estate is declared insolvent. That's why I tried to help him by suggesting he put the reimbursement claim in, assuming the order or precedence could help knock out a creditor and put us at the top of the list. I don't really know how that all works, but I know there's an order, and that 4k reimbursement would have helped to pay her bill.

I have two witnesses who can attest that when my mom gave me this money, she said "Just put it toward travel expenses" she didn't say "pay it back". Not sure if that changes anything.

 

[LdiJ]

Thank you LdiJ. Yes, I completely agree this is all about getting as much money as possible because he says he's stuck with a $7k attorney bill after the estate is declared insolvent. That's why I tried to help him by suggesting he put the reimbursement claim in, assuming the order or precedence could help knock out a creditor and put us at the top of the list. I don't really know how that all works, but I know there's an order, and that 4k reimbursement would have helped to pay her bill.

I have two witnesses who can attest that when my mom gave me this money, she said "Just put it toward travel expenses" she didn't say "pay it back". Not sure if that changes anything.

I suspect that even after making all priority claims there is still a balance due to the attorney of 7K. Or, the money has already been spent that might have gone towards priority claims.