Debtor spent the money for gold coins

[quincy]

He is not employed. He has several other properties also on his name but sold all of them (for almost market price) after the judgment and "spent" the money/cash.
In a nutshell, if the debtor has money (cash withdrawn from the bank, or gold coins), can he spend it as he likes without giving (or leaving) any evidence or details on when, where, or how he spent that money?

You might want to consider selling the judgment to a collection agency. You will only get a fraction of the amount you are owed - but a fraction of $36K could be better than the time you have to spend chasing down assets, with the possibility of collecting $0 for your efforts.

 

[robinsonf]

I appreciate all the advices you all provided.

I sold him trees/wood and he promised me to pay with interest within 5 years but he failed although that 5 year time has expired. I trusted him, and that was my mistake.

I did not record the judgment with the county recorder immediately. By the time I did it, he sold all the properties.

 

[quincy]

I appreciate all the advices you all provided.

I sold him trees/wood and he promised me to pay with interest within 5 years but he failed although that 5 year time has expired. I trusted him, and that was my mistake.

I did not record the judgment with the county recorder immediately. By the time I did it, he sold all the properties.

Your failure to act quickly after getting the judgment was a mistake that I know you know now.

Good luck with your collection efforts.

 

[zddoodah]

Any advice on handling this mater?

Not really sure what you're expecting anyone to say. Some folks are good at being deadbeats, and Florida is one of the haven states for such folks.

are his statements enough to convince the court to order him to provide correct information or bring back those coins?

We don't know what his statements were. All we know are your summaries. You told us the statements were made under oath, so he was already legally obligated to tell the truth. It's not like the judge has a magic button or something. If the guy says, "I don't know what became of them," and you can't offer any evidence to contradict that testimony, what do you suppose the judge can do?

He has several other properties also on his name but sold all of them (for almost market price) after the judgment and "spent" the money/cash.

"Has" (present tense)?

if the debtor has money (cash withdrawn from the bank, or gold coins), can he spend it as he likes without giving (or leaving) any evidence or details on when, where, or how he spent that money?

Absolutely -- especially if it's cash.

 

[robinsonf]

Thank you.

“Has" Sorry, it must be “had”

So if he can simply withdraw cash (even if it is 100K) from his own bank account and later testify that he spent it (without giving or leaving any evidence or details on when, where, or how he spent that), but I am required to prove (with evidence) that he hid the cash somewhere to convince the judge, then absolutely I cannot do anything to collect the judgment except for waiting (looking or searching for available assets, if any) or give this to a collection agency as Quincy stated. Please correct me if I have any other choice.

By the way, whether the collection agencies are good in locating the assets or in convincing the judge or both?

 

[quincy]

Thank you.

“Has" Sorry, it must be “had”

So if he can simply withdraw cash (even if it is 100K) from his own bank account and later testify that he spent it (without giving or leaving any evidence or details on when, where, or how he spent that), but I am required to prove (with evidence) that he hid the cash somewhere to convince the judge, then absolutely I cannot do anything to collect the judgment except for waiting (looking or searching for available assets, if any) or give this to a collection agency as Quincy stated. Please correct me if I have any other choice.

By the way, whether the collection agencies are good in locating the assets or in convincing the judge or both?

Essentially, yes. You as judgment-creditor will need proof that the judgment-debtor has assets and you need to locate these assets before you can attach them.

Collection agencies tend to be good at what they do because it is their job to be good at what they do.

Judgments last a long time so you have some luxury in knowing that you could be able to collect what is owed if you wait patiently. It might be years before you can collect anything, though.

 

[robinsonf]

Thank you. Once he testifies that he spent the cash but if I can locate the cash and prove that he did not spend then, not only the cash can be attached but also he will be held for contempt for providing false information under oath. Is it correct? If so, he must be following a strong procedure to hide the cash to avoid these consequences (which makes my job o finding the cash much harder!).

 

[zddoodah]

So if he can simply withdraw cash (even if it is 100K) from his own bank account and later testify that he spent it (without giving or leaving any evidence or details on when, where, or how he spent that), but I am required to prove (with evidence) that he hid the cash somewhere to convince the judge

The court doesn't get involved in the collection of a judgment until and unless one or the other of the parties asks it to become involved. In the situation you've described, the debtor certainly isn't asking the court to become involved. Rather, it's you, and as the party invoking the court's involvement, you have the burden of presenting evidence to support whatever you're asking the court to do. If you go to the court and say, "gosh, your honor, the debtor had $100k in his account, but now it's not there, and I can't trace it," the judge is going to say, "that's a bummer; what do you want me to do about it?" You might say, "order the defendant to explain," and the court might do that, but if the defendant says, "I spent it on alcohol and hookers and other such frivolities and no, I didn't get receipts for any of it," there's not a whole heck of a lot the court can do. If the guy says, "I bought $20k in gold coins but don't know what happened to them," sure, that's not particularly believable, but what are you gonna do? You need evidence to get a court to do things.

By the way, whether the collection agencies are good in locating the assets or in convincing the judge or both?

Huh?

 

[quincy]

Thank you. Once he testifies that he spent the cash but if I can locate the cash and prove that he did not spend then, not only the cash can be attached but also he will be held for contempt for providing false information under oath. Is it correct? If so, he must be following a strong procedure to hide the cash to avoid these consequences (which makes my job o finding the cash much harder!).

I think you need to concentrate first on locating assets. You can hire a private investigator to help you if you are struggling.

 

[Litigator22]

What is the name of your state? Florida
I am judgment creditor. The judgment debtor, after the judgment was announced, purchased gold coins (from US mint) worth of several thousands of dollars, directly using the money from the bank account listed on his name alone. He emptied the bank account. When questioned, he testified under oath that he purchased those coins but he no longer have those coins and has no memory on what happened to those coins, probably lost them or sold them and spend money, etc. Basically he is giving a very vague answer but very firmly saying that he no longer have them and did not give them as gift to someone. He also testified that he has no money with him now (in case he sold the coins). Any advice on handling this mater?

Once again you need to drag the deadbeat into court for a debtor's examination. There he can be placed under oath and compelled to respond to a vigorous and comprehensive examination as to the disposition and whereabouts of any such assets. And better that a seasoned trial lawyer conducts the interrogation.

Should he continue to be evasive, request in open court that he be found in contempt and immediately incarcerated until he purges himself of contempt by fully cooperating with the examination.

And speaking of coincidence consider the case of deep sea treasure hunter Tommy Thompson. As of December late he was still sitting in jail after 5 years for his refusal to abide a federal court ordering him to reveal the whereabouts of 500 gold coins supposedly recovered from a 19th century shipwreck. [*]


[*] s.com/article/ohio-coronavirus-pandemic-courts-tommy-thompson-826914897e8a7d7caa04e6614548bd9e?ICID=ref_fark
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/treature-hunter-tommy-thompson-jail-5-years-missing-gold-coins/

 

[robinsonf]

Much appreciated both responses.

Litigator22: I will serious work on finding a skillful attorney who works on contingency basis. Your link on gold coins is really interesting and I wish it will help in my case involving gold coins. In general, will the court take same kind of actions (debtor be found in contempt and immediately incarcerated) until he purges himself of contempt by fully cooperating with the examination on what happened to the cash also, which he withdrew from his bank accounts and now cliaming that he spent it (without giving or leaving any evidence or details on when, where, or how he spent that) ?

 

[zddoodah]

In general, will the court take same kind of actions (debtor be found in contempt and immediately incarcerated) until he purges himself of contempt by fully cooperating with the examination on what happened to the cash also, which he withdrew from his bank accounts and now cliaming that he spent it (without giving or leaving any evidence or details on when, where, or how he spent that) ?

Incarcerating a judgment debtor over responses to questions at a debtor exam is so rare that it would be perfectly reasonable to say it virtually never happens. I briefly skimmed the article linked by "Litigator22." It describes an individual who "pleaded guilty for his failure to appear," and part of the "deal required [the individual] to answer questions . . . [and] 'assist'[ interested parties in finding the coins." Despite having made that deal, the individual "refused several times." Later, the article noted that an appellate court found that the individual "hasn't just refused to answer questions . . . [but] also violated the requirement that he 'assist' the parties by refusing to execute a limited power of attorney."

That's a set of incredibly unique facts that have no similarity to your situation. "I don't know" is a perfectly legitimate answer that you ultimately have to accept, even if you don't believe its truth, unless you have some evidence to controvert the claim.

 

[quincy]

Much appreciated both responses.

Litigator22: I will serious work on finding a skillful attorney who works on contingency basis. Your link on gold coins is really interesting and I wish it will help in my case involving gold coins. In general, will the court take same kind of actions (debtor be found in contempt and immediately incarcerated) until he purges himself of contempt by fully cooperating with the examination on what happened to the cash also, which he withdrew from his bank accounts and now cliaming that he spent it (without giving or leaving any evidence or details on when, where, or how he spent that) ?

You gave your debtor several months to spend, sell, hide or dispose of assets. He might legitimately not know the when, where and hows of it all.

I won’t go into “what you should have done” immediately after you were awarded the judgment because that doesn’t help you now. Right now, you need to locate any assets the fellow might have. A second debtor’s examination is only helpful if the fellow is honest (doubtful) or if you have proof he is lying (you do not seem to be at that point yet).

 

[adjusterjack]

I will serious work on finding a skillful attorney who works on contingency basis.

I seriously doubt that you will find any attorney who will take a case on contingency where the possibility of recovering any money is so slim.

 

[quincy]

I seriously doubt that you will find any attorney who will take a case on contingency where the possibility of recovering any money is so slim.

A debt collection agency could take over judgment recovery, however, for a percentage of the amount recovered. This, or selling the judgment to a collection agency, might be robinsonf’s best option. I think he will struggle trying to locate assets on his own.