debating about summer vacation time already....what to do?

[novemberbride]

It seems (to me anyway) that you're holding your ex to the statement she made about taking vacation in the "first or second week in July". Maybe she was giving you the implication that she would be beginning her vacation during those weeks. I get the impression that you want to hold her to that statement assuming she meant she would take her vacation in the first two weeks of July (1st -14th). So, she chose days that 2 of those days run into the third week and take away one of your regular visitation days. It'll be ok....trust me.

Its frustrating, and irritating to lose days, change days, etc..I read through some of my old posts, and was rather embarassed that I got upset about my ex's vacation. The advice I got from the senior members was right, and without it I would have looked a fool running into court cryin about it. The best advice I have recieved when it comes to court and dealing with my ex has come from this forum. So, with that being said, take the advice....like stealth said (which was said to me too) this isn't the hill to die on.

 

[stealth2]

She finally sent notice today that their plans are to go to the Jersey Shore, beach and boardwalk every day. I don't know why she couldn't switch her dates to the 7th to 15th (keeping in with her requested first two weeks in July). That would give the time she sent notice for, I have no objections to it and son will not miss out on the shore.

I understand. REALLY, I do. I've been there. But... there comes a point when one of you has to be the bigger person. Yes, it sucks that it has to be you. But someone has to be. And... at the end of it all? Your son will know, in his heart, which of you it was. Trust me on that. I've been there, too.

 

[tiredofthegamez]

It seems (to me anyway) that you're holding your ex to the statement she made about taking vacation in the "first or second week in July". Maybe she was giving you the implication that she would be beginning her vacation during those weeks. I get the impression that you want to hold her to that statement assuming she meant she would take her vacation in the first two weeks of July (1st -14th). So, she chose days that 2 of those days run into the third week and take away one of your regular visitation days. It'll be ok....trust me.

Its frustrating, and irritating to lose days, change days, etc..I read through some of my old posts, and was rather embarassed that I got upset about my ex's vacation. The advice I got from the senior members was right, and without it I would have looked a fool running into court cryin about it. The best advice I have recieved when it comes to court and dealing with my ex has come from this forum. So, with that being said, take the advice....like stealth said (which was said to me too) this isn't the hill to die on.

I am not,personally, interested in holding his mother to her statement- my whole reason for OP is because of what the order outlines in regards to summer and regular vacation, and that contempt charges are in abeyance "pending Mother's compliance with the above terms" (the order's exact wording).

I don't understand the repeated reference to "this isn't the hill to die on". If you all mean times/dates I've been seeking to exercise the summer vacation- I'm not looking to "die on that hill". Really, the biggest thing I am trying to figure out right now is what date/time I would be able to pick our son up. At first I would have thought that, given the order, I would attempt to pick him on the 15th of July. She will not change the dates she gave, and is saying he won't be there, nor will he be there on the 16th. It still seems this goes against what the order outlines, but the message I'm getting is that its fine for her to do that....however, I realize there's really no stopping it, so to be clear- I acknowledge that she will be dictating her selected week in July. End of that story.

Which leaves the issue of giving new notice to pick him up on July 17th (or July 1st etc.) and run the risk of not being able to....therefore allowing her to deny that summer vacation time completely. If I'm being told that custody order/contempt/filing record of missed time isn't the "hill to die on"- that is where I am at a loss and do not agree. Every year since the order was entered in 2005, there have been repeated missed visits, holidays, refusal to share information etc. All these years I have been trying to work things out with her so that I can maintain the relationship with our son. By her own admission she is "hot-headed", doesn't "have to" discuss anything she doesn't feel like discussing, that's "who she is". Fine, I never expected to change her. But how many times of "being the bigger person" by letting her dictate the time son gets to spend with me is required?

 

[Mom_of_Two]

I am not,personally, interested in holding his mother to her statement- my whole reason for OP is because of what the order outlines in regards to summer and regular vacation, and that contempt charges are in abeyance "pending Mother's compliance with the above terms" (the order's exact wording).

I don't understand the repeated reference to "this isn't the hill to die on". If you all mean times/dates I've been seeking to exercise the summer vacation- I'm not looking to "die on that hill". Really, the biggest thing I am trying to figure out right now is what date/time I would be able to pick our son up. At first I would have thought that, given the order, I would attempt to pick him on the 15th of July. She will not change the dates she gave, and is saying he won't be there, nor will he be there on the 16th. It still seems this goes against what the order outlines, but the message I'm getting is that its fine for her to do that....however, I realize there's really no stopping it, so to be clear- I acknowledge that she will be dictating her selected week in July. End of that story.

Which leaves the issue of giving new notice to pick him up on July 17th (or July 1st etc.) and run the risk of not being able to....therefore allowing her to deny that summer vacation time completely. If I'm being told that custody order/contempt/filing record of missed time isn't the "hill to die on"- that is where I am at a loss and do not agree. Every year since the order was entered in 2005, there have been repeated missed visits, holidays, refusal to share information etc. All these years I have been trying to work things out with her so that I can maintain the relationship with our son. By her own admission she is "hot-headed", doesn't "have to" discuss anything she doesn't feel like discussing, that's "who she is". Fine, I never expected to change her. But how many times of "being the bigger person" by letting her dictate the time son gets to spend with me is required?

Email mom and tell her that you will pick up Jr. on the 17th for your vacation time, and keep a record of the email correspondences between you two regarding vacation. If you show up and Jr. isn't made available, or if she brings the police to get Jr. before your vacation is suppose to be over, then file for contempt with the court.

 

[mistoffolees]

I am not,personally, interested in holding his mother to her statement- my whole reason for OP is because of what the order outlines in regards to summer and regular vacation, and that contempt charges are in abeyance "pending Mother's compliance with the above terms" (the order's exact wording).

I don't understand the repeated reference to "this isn't the hill to die on". If you all mean times/dates I've been seeking to exercise the summer vacation- I'm not looking to "die on that hill". Really, the biggest thing I am trying to figure out right now is what date/time I would be able to pick our son up. At first I would have thought that, given the order, I would attempt to pick him on the 15th of July. She will not change the dates she gave, and is saying he won't be there, nor will he be there on the 16th. It still seems this goes against what the order outlines, but the message I'm getting is that its fine for her to do that....however, I realize there's really no stopping it, so to be clear- I acknowledge that she will be dictating her selected week in July. End of that story.

Which leaves the issue of giving new notice to pick him up on July 17th (or July 1st etc.) and run the risk of not being able to....therefore allowing her to deny that summer vacation time completely. If I'm being told that custody order/contempt/filing record of missed time isn't the "hill to die on"- that is where I am at a loss and do not agree. Every year since the order was entered in 2005, there have been repeated missed visits, holidays, refusal to share information etc. All these years I have been trying to work things out with her so that I can maintain the relationship with our son. By her own admission she is "hot-headed", doesn't "have to" discuss anything she doesn't feel like discussing, that's "who she is". Fine, I never expected to change her. But how many times of "being the bigger person" by letting her dictate the time son gets to spend with me is required?

If you're going to ask for advice, you really ought to pay attention when it's given.

No one said to ignore it if she didn't let you have your scheduled visitation.

What you've been told (repeatedly, by a number of people) is that it's not worth fighting about which week you have - since you apparently don't have any plans, anyway. Let her pick her week, then you pick your week and notify her of it (including ALL the requirements of your court order, including providing an itinerary). Make sure the notification is in writing so you have a record of it.

THEN, if she doesn't comply, you file for contempt.

 

[tiredofthegamez]

If you're going to ask for advice, you really ought to pay attention when it's given.

No one said to ignore it if she didn't let you have your scheduled visitation.

What you've been told (repeatedly, by a number of people) is that it's not worth fighting about which week you have - since you apparently don't have any plans, anyway. Let her pick her week, then you pick your week and notify her of it (including ALL the requirements of your court order, including providing an itinerary). Make sure the notification is in writing so you have a record of it.

THEN, if she doesn't comply, you file for contempt.

In all seriousness- I have read every post, and do understand the words that have been said. I have said, repeatedly now, that I am not fighting the week and acknowledge that it is not worth it. I've said that I did pick a specific week, and sent her the notice with itinerary. I've said repeatedly that she sent back a notice that then selected her specific week and she was not including any itinerary (not an issue I want to argue, just noting what was said), and it conflicted with the week I'd sent. I was unclear on whether that meant she again intended not to let scheduled visitation happen (as summer vacation section isn't specific on times/dates as the 1st and third weekends at 6pm section is; summer vacation section seemed to outline who would have priority of a selected week).....but I digress and am giving up on the weeks I had sent notice for. She WILL have him as she wants to. I will send a new notice, select new dates, and just have to hope that she doesn't take advantage of the situation.

 

[novemberbride]

I understand OP, truly I do. I for one, don't plan vacations that will take time away from my ex because I have more timeshare, and can schedule vacations during my regular custody time. So, I don't necessarily agree with your ex planning a week which takes time away from you, or her giving you a vague timeline of "the first two weeks" then giving you dates that conflicted with yours. However, this stuff happens, and if you let it become a big hairy issue, it will be even harder to agree when bigger issues arise.

If you give mom notice of picking up your son on the 17th, to begin your vacation, and she refuses...file for contempt.

She continues to ignore your vacation requests, file for contempt.

 

[stealth2]

Email mom and tell her that you will pick up Jr. on the 17th for your vacation time, and keep a record of the email correspondences between you two regarding vacation. If you show up and Jr. isn't made available, or if she brings the police to get Jr. before your vacation is suppose to be over, then file for contempt with the court.

I would actually mail it RRR, if it were me.

 

[Mom_of_Two]

I would actually mail it RRR, if it were me.

Even better! Especially with an ex that has a history of not honoring visitation.

 

[CJane]

Honestly, OP, if you're that concerned that Mom is going to interfere with your summer visits regardless of when you choose them, then it doesn't matter which dates you choose.

I wouldn't personally consider email to be "in writing" unless your order specifically says that email is an "approved" method of communication. As stealth said, MAIL a WRITTEN notice of the two weeks you're choosing CRR to Mom. Keep a copy of the letter and a copy of the receipt that she signed for it.

 

[stealth2]

What I don't understand is why you think it's an all or nothing situation. Either you MUST STAND YOUR GROUND or you'll get no visitation and be able to do nothing about it. No one even implied anything remotely like that.

IMO, the best way to handle it is to agree to her choice of dates, despite the possibly not-quite-complete adherence to the order (on her part), and inform her (in writing and to-the-letter adherence to the order) of the dates when you plan to have the child. Then, if she screws around with your scheduled time, you gather up your evidence and take her back to court for contempt. Being the nice guy and showing that you're trying to be cooperative will go a long way for you in court. Additionally, the light bulb may go off in her head (or her lawyer will light it for her) that she'd be a fool to screw around with your time.

I do also want to touch on "Also the parents must include an itinerary for any trip in the notice of preferred dates." I'm not really certain that you need to tell her how you intend to spend your week. IF you are going on a trip (camping, out of state to visit family or just to go somewhere, etc.)? Then yes, you need to provide Mom with reasonable travel details - dates, destination, travel arrangements, contact info. But if you're taking the week and hanging around, taking day trips? You don't have to tell her all that.

 

[tiredofthegamez]

I understand OP, truly I do. I for one, don't plan vacations that will take time away from my ex because I have more timeshare, and can schedule vacations during my regular custody time. So, I don't necessarily agree with your ex planning a week which takes time away from you, or her giving you a vague timeline of "the first two weeks" then giving you dates that conflicted with yours. However, this stuff happens, and if you let it become a big hairy issue, it will be even harder to agree when bigger issues arise.

If you give mom notice of picking up your son on the 17th, to begin your vacation, and she refuses...file for contempt.

She continues to ignore your vacation requests, file for contempt.

Thank you for your understanding. Just out of curiosity, what would you say defines a "bigger issue"? Ever since son was born his mother has fought at just about every turn (getting paternity established, not wanting him to spend time with or have communication with me before custody order and then many incidents of denying that after order was entered in 2005, not sharing legal custody etc.) Basically, whether I've agreed or not, son and I have been forced to deal with what she dictates, especially the times she just took him before I went to pick him up or when she up and moved and then sent me an e-mail about it late that Sunday night (after visitation would have ended). It isn't that I'm out to give her a hard time or make her wrong. But things that diminish relationship with son (not spending time with him, not knowing anything about him/activites etc.)....that is a big issue to me.

 

[tiredofthegamez]

Honestly, OP, if you're that concerned that Mom is going to interfere with your summer visits regardless of when you choose them, then it doesn't matter which dates you choose.

I wouldn't personally consider email to be "in writing" unless your order specifically says that email is an "approved" method of communication. As stealth said, MAIL a WRITTEN notice of the two weeks you're choosing CRR to Mom. Keep a copy of the letter and a copy of the receipt that she signed for it.

Yes, I was going to do this anyway. OP was to clarify first whether I should send the week I'd sent or the one she sent back after- before I send it registered mail.

 

[LdiJ]

Thank you for your understanding. Just out of curiosity, what would you say defines a "bigger issue"? Ever since son was born his mother has fought at just about every turn (getting paternity established, not wanting him to spend time with or have communication with me before custody order and then many incidents of denying that after order was entered in 2005, not sharing legal custody etc.) Basically, whether I've agreed or not, son and I have been forced to deal with what she dictates, especially the times she just took him before I went to pick him up or when she up and moved and then sent me an e-mail about it late that Sunday night (after visitation would have ended). It isn't that I'm out to give her a hard time or make her wrong. But things that diminish relationship with son (not spending time with him, not knowing anything about him/activites etc.)....that is a big issue to me.

A little confusion in scheduling vacations is minor. Denying a vacation is major. So far, she hasn't denied you a vacation. She told you that she needed to take one of her weeks in the first or second week in July. The 9th to the 16th is the second week in July. You chose a week that starts smack dab in the middle of the second week in July before she had a chance to get back to you with her firm dates.

That is a little confusion. In fact, it could even be twisted to come across as you deliberately choosing a week that would interfere with her vacation after she warned you that she needed that time.

Choose two weeks NOW. If she denies either of your weeks then take it to court for contempt.

 

[tiredofthegamez]

What I don't understand is why you think it's an all or nothing situation. Either you MUST STAND YOUR GROUND or you'll get no visitation and be able to do nothing about it. No one even implied anything remotely like that.

IMO, the best way to handle it is to agree to her choice of dates, despite the possibly not-quite-complete adherence to the order (on her part), and inform her (in writing and to-the-letter adherence to the order) of the dates when you plan to have the child. Then, if she screws around with your scheduled time, you gather up your evidence and take her back to court for contempt. Being the nice guy and showing that you're trying to be cooperative will go a long way for you in court. Additionally, the light bulb may go off in her head (or her lawyer will light it for her) that she'd be a fool to screw around with your time.

I do also want to touch on "Also the parents must include an itinerary for any trip in the notice of preferred dates." I'm not really certain that you need to tell her how you intend to spend your week. IF you are going on a trip (camping, out of state to visit family or just to go somewhere, etc.)? Then yes, you need to provide Mom with reasonable travel details - dates, destination, travel arrangements, contact info. But if you're taking the week and hanging around, taking day trips? You don't have to tell her all that.

I don't see it as though I must stand my ground. I didn't understand why it kept being said that I'm trying to die on a hill. The reason I think summer vacation may not happen on this end and there will be nothing I can do about it is simple- there is history of denied visitation and nothing was done about it....except the new modifications/added summer vacation. Which I was told to go back to court for so that something could possibly be done in the future should more problems arise.

I honestly didn't mind sharing that we plan to go to movies and the park, and if we do go on a trip elsewhere I will send her that info ahead of time as ordered. Would contact info really be needed? I ask this because so far, hi mom said she didn't have an itinerary when she told me there would be a trip, and that when she did/does give it that it "will be tentative". Then she said how they're going to Jersey Shore, beach and boardwalk, staying at condos at night. That's all I know as of now. I believe (given history) that if I were to ask about contact info that I will just get told "none of your business".