Now for the monkey wrench.paulie0130 said:Considering this, and since she isn't concerned about support, then she'll probably just let the "sleeping lion" sleep. If he has showed no interest for three years, then most likely things will stay the same. And if he changes his mind, he can go through the hassle. And she can get a lawyer then to deal with custody/visitation/support issues. If she did something now she might just be causing herself a grief that might never become an issue if she let it alone...
The hard part would be the adoption and getting the paternity figured out. If he was adjudicated as the father and his rights terminated then that should be fine, b/c my girlfriend says their is no other possibility. Of course, after learning all this I will probably press the issue with her a little just to make sure that is the case.
And THAT is why people don't believe her (or you telling us what SHE thinks). If she really was interested in what's best for the child she would know that's to know BOTH parents.paulie0130 said:Uh, what 20 yr old girl w/o a college education knows any of this stuff? What is with people wanting to judge my girlfriend just b/c she was naive? Get over it. I didn't come here to listen to people slam my girlfriend. Nobody is perfect. She's made plenty of mistake in her life, and now she justs wants to do what she believes is best for her child.
And that again reinforces the belief that she cares more about HER than the child.She has been under the impression if she presses the matter, then she'll get child support, but also that the father will have visitation rights and she really doesn't want him involved.
The problem is those are NOT her decisions to make. And to be perfectly honest, how do you KNOW that her judgement is NOT influenced by her not knowing who the father is? You don't. You believe her. And that son, is not fact. The only way to know for sure is through paternity.He's got lots of issues (she used to have the same issues before she changed her life), and she doesn't want her son exposed to that if she can avoid it. I guess she figured the trade-off is no child support, but she can keep the father away. Her judgment was mostly influenced by fear and naivete.
that is NOT the point. The child deserves to know it's father. PERIOD.Our relationship will be fine regardless. Her past is filled with sinful choice (so is mine) and God and I both have forgiven her all of it. I doubt highly she lied to me (there is no point, unless she is just too embaressed, and I can forgive that!)
No one here has slammed her. What we are trying to get YOU to realize is that people lie. It's human nature. While that may or may not be the case here, the REAL issue is that her decisions are NOT for the best interest of the child.So if it makes you feel better to slam her, feel free. I hope it's the highlight of your day. She knows she's made mistakes, your slams are meaningless and not helpful.
I came here for advice and help, not judgment.
We can accept that the moment YOU accept the fact that this issue is NOT about you or her. It's about the law.paulie0130 said:Most of this is as new to me as it is to you guys. For the most part our relationship has been about us, but just recently when we started talking about marriage and the future I started asking a bunch of questions, and to be honest I've had lots of questions for her, too. You guys are treading on ground already covered. That's why it's getting frustrating hearing the same questions I've asked all over again. She has ZERO reason to lie to me. At some point you have to just trust, and I've made that choice. Can we just assume the girl is telling the truth and deal with it from that perspective. I understand your doubts, cause I shared them for awhile. I know the situation, you don't, so for the sake of discussion can we assume she's telling the truth? Is it so hard to believe a 20 yr old girl was just naive about the law and what is considered right and wrong in the legal system. She wants to make things right NOW. She can't go back and change the past.
It is in this issue. Because from the moment a child was involved she gave up the right to make decisions.The bio-father HAS made his choice. The world isn't a court room guys.
And that is what SHE told you. Sorry, but that means nothing when you want RELEVANT LEGAL advice.This guy does know this child is his... he just doesn't want any part of this. he wanted her to get an abortion and she said NO.
So, you want us to believe her and yet NOT believe him? Sorry, the LAW doesn't have double standards. When she stands in front of a judge HE/SHE also won't know her and will judge the case on the merits.As you said, human nature is to lie - He is telling a lie when he says he doubts paternity. Just b/c there haven't been legal proceedings doesn't mean this guy hasn't made his choice. He abandoned her. Maybe legally he didn't, but in the real world he did.
Because he was good enough to have sex with and to get pregnant by. He has the same rights as she does. If you don't like that then leave this forum because you're just not intelligent enough to realize the truth.So why should she have any consideration for this guy, and why should she bother with legally forcing paternity on him when he has already made it abundantly clear he doesn't want to be bothered with the boy?
YOU can assume whatever you want. But, when the law and parent rights are involved, the court will NOT assume. And that is what I'VE been trying to get you to realize. NOTHING you have said to this point matters in law.Take this from an emotional point of view and her actions make sense. I'm not justifying it, just doing my best to explain why she did what she did. Can we just assume this is the precisely the scenario. I am convinced (and not just b/c of her word) that is all true. Debating the details is dragging this on more and more... let's just assume my girlfriend is not a liar...
And that's fine. UNTIL you try to adopt.Let's put this into a different light... she merely wants to make the current situation - she having sole custody, no support, the bio-father having no rights - PERMANANT. The bio-father likes this situation like it is (he has said this to her multiple times). The only questions is will he feel the same way if she asked him to do whatever needs to be done to make it permanant?? That's an unknown.
That is irrelevant.If you were in this circumstance, what would you do?
there is nothing you can do now. you were told that before. ONCE you get married and are SURE you want to adopt she can start the procedure. But again, YOU will have nothing to do with it until such time as the court allows the adoption.I had a previous post that suggested the idea that she (1) establish paternity, (2) ask the bio-father to give up his legal rights to his son, and (3) and waive her rights to the child support. Can this be done? Is this a good idea? Are their better options?
This child was not abandoned by his father no matter how you try to spin it in the legal sense, since paternity was never established, the mother made no effort to establish paternity ot to seek support for her child that was in the best interest of the child. Since you say she is dirt poor, this is significant, because that means the child is doing without both the potential relationship with their father, whom ever that is and the positive benefits that child support offers including some degree of independence for both mother and child.paulie0130 said:..... But you are so stuck on HIS RIGHTS that you have forgotten this is about a child that was abandoned by his father. ...... is it really true that the father is disinterested... you can't take his rights away!! ....BLAH BLAH BLAH...
Just to spare you the time, I'm done here.
paulie0130 said:OK, one last post... I've talked and prayed with my girlfriend about this and SHE decided that what she is going to do is ... (1) establish paternity, (2) do her best to maintain custody (which probably should not be hard, I doubt the father will even fight for it), (3) work out some form of visitation with the father, and (4) waive child support. HER thinking that (1) if the father is to be involved, she doesn't want it to be out of some sense of obligation ("gee, I pay support, I should go see this kid", but out of a pure heart of wanting to be a father... and (2) though support would make life easier, she is content with the way things are. And once we are married, it will be a moot point.
In the long run, we feel this works best because...
(1) If he get involved with raising his son, GOOD. He might be a "bad" influence, but as you have rightly pointed out it is his right to be a "bad" influence... she (and I eventually as stepdad) will just have to hope to be a better "good" influence.
(2) If he does not get involved, my understanding is that I could then adopt (after be married to her for awhile), cause his rights could involuntarily be terminated for abandonment.
I'm sorry this got so negative. My desire was never to offend anyone. I really just needed some help thinking through this. I appreciate what help I got.QUOTE]Please reconsider mom asking for child support, this is an issue of the best welfare of the child, not a matter of false pride. It also allows mom to not be dependent on you for her child's needs. She needs to mature both intellecutally and spiritually. I am glad she has decided to establish paternity, that is in the best interest of the child.
paulie0130 said:She does *NEED* me in any way. She is poor, yes. She lives a humbly life and though poor, she is smart and frugal and can meet her and her son's needs. She has been doing so for 3 years. I do not support her right now at all. She lives on her own, and supports her son herself.
I am not *NOT* controlling her or pulling her strings. I have access to internet, she does not... that is why I asked the questions, not her.
Since she can live without support and meet her son's needs on her own, her thought is to not take child support as a test and a tactical choice. One side of her thought is what I mentioned earlier, she would only want him involved if he wanted to be involved with pure intentions. She doesn't want him to live up to his responsiblities out of "guilt." And writing a check for support and not visiting would certainly create guilt.
I actually agree with you guys on this one, but as was pointed out many many times I have no deciding factor here whatsoever. Her choice.
If you re-read my post you will see that I did not say he *LEGALLY* abandoned his son. I said in the real world situation he did. I actually do get what you guys were saying about how the law would not see him as a neglectful or as a "bad" father. That is a BIG reason why she has decided to establish paternity... her instincts (and she is probably right) is that once it is established legally nothing will change and if she is right then after a certain amount of time (not certain what) it would be considered *LEGALLY* abandonment. And if that happens, it is in the best interest of the child that it is LEGALLY known his bio-father abandoned him. And if he has a change of heart, then hopefully that will be a good thing for the boy.
Pleas discontinue making comments about her intellect and maturity. You are ignorant about her. Would you have made those comments to my face? Then why are you writing them? (And if you said YES, you do realize that I would have punched your lights out?)... Just stop with the personal attacks.