do we need to involve bio-dad

[stealth2]

(1) Yes.

(2) Yes. Yes. He could be adjudicated to be the father by default.

(3) Yes.

 

[paulie0130]

This sounds good

Considering this, and since she isn't concerned about support, then she'll probably just let the "sleeping lion" sleep. If he has showed no interest for three years, then most likely things will stay the same. And if he changes his mind, he can go through the hassle. And she can get a lawyer then to deal with custody/visitation/support issues. If she did something now she might just be causing herself a grief that might never become an issue if she let it alone...

The hard part would be the adoption and getting the paternity figured out. If he was adjudicated as the father and his rights terminated then that should be fine, b/c my girlfriend says their is no other possibility. Of course, after learning all this I will probably press the issue with her a little just to make sure that is the case.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Considering this, and since she isn't concerned about support, then she'll probably just let the "sleeping lion" sleep. If he has showed no interest for three years, then most likely things will stay the same. And if he changes his mind, he can go through the hassle. And she can get a lawyer then to deal with custody/visitation/support issues. If she did something now she might just be causing herself a grief that might never become an issue if she let it alone...

The hard part would be the adoption and getting the paternity figured out. If he was adjudicated as the father and his rights terminated then that should be fine, b/c my girlfriend says their is no other possibility. Of course, after learning all this I will probably press the issue with her a little just to make sure that is the case.

Now for the monkey wrench.

If she does nothing and things being as they are, she is driving down the highway and is broadsided and dies, you have not rights to the child. Unless the father comes forward at that point or other family, you will never see the child again.

THAT is why, doing nothing is NOT the answer.

 

[paulie0130]

I've been going back and forth here about what is the best thing for her to do... you've read enough of my posts to have a good idea of what my girlfriend would like to happen. If you were her, what precisely would you do? What is her best option?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Come on now.
You say she is dirt poor, can't afford an attorney yet cares nothing about child support?
If she files a paternity action she pays for the DNA test if the proported father is proven not to be the father, a big problem if you don't have money and have been telling one story then becomming a Christian, right?

Her actions really suggest that she has a question about paternity and it is easier to not pursue paternity and child support rather than be found out. If she has no question about paternity, then it costs her nothing and her child is entitled to child support. The bio dad can still petition for some form of custody and visitation, but most likely won't and you will be closer to adoption, if the child isn't his and that suggests she hasn't been forthcomming to you and others, can your relationship survive such a thing?

 

[paulie0130]

Uh, what 20 yr old girl w/o a college education knows any of this stuff? What is with people wanting to judge my girlfriend just b/c she was naive? Get over it. I didn't come here to listen to people slam my girlfriend. Nobody is perfect. She's made plenty of mistake in her life, and now she justs wants to do what she believes is best for her child.

She has been under the impression if she presses the matter, then she'll get child support, but also that the father will have visitation rights and she really doesn't want him involved. He's got lots of issues (she used to have the same issues before she changed her life), and she doesn't want her son exposed to that if she can avoid it. I guess she figured the trade-off is no child support, but she can keep the father away. Her judgment was mostly influenced by fear and naivete.

Our relationship will be fine regardless. Her past is filled with sinful choice (so is mine) and God and I both have forgiven her all of it. I doubt highly she lied to me (there is no point, unless she is just too embaressed, and I can forgive that!)

So if it makes you feel better to slam her, feel free. I hope it's the highlight of your day. She knows she's made mistakes, your slams are meaningless and not helpful.

I came here for advice and help, not judgment.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Uh, what 20 yr old girl w/o a college education knows any of this stuff? What is with people wanting to judge my girlfriend just b/c she was naive? Get over it. I didn't come here to listen to people slam my girlfriend. Nobody is perfect. She's made plenty of mistake in her life, and now she justs wants to do what she believes is best for her child.

And THAT is why people don't believe her (or you telling us what SHE thinks). If she really was interested in what's best for the child she would know that's to know BOTH parents.

She has been under the impression if she presses the matter, then she'll get child support, but also that the father will have visitation rights and she really doesn't want him involved.

And that again reinforces the belief that she cares more about HER than the child.

He's got lots of issues (she used to have the same issues before she changed her life), and she doesn't want her son exposed to that if she can avoid it. I guess she figured the trade-off is no child support, but she can keep the father away. Her judgment was mostly influenced by fear and naivete.

The problem is those are NOT her decisions to make. And to be perfectly honest, how do you KNOW that her judgement is NOT influenced by her not knowing who the father is? You don't. You believe her. And that son, is not fact. The only way to know for sure is through paternity.

Our relationship will be fine regardless. Her past is filled with sinful choice (so is mine) and God and I both have forgiven her all of it. I doubt highly she lied to me (there is no point, unless she is just too embaressed, and I can forgive that!)

that is NOT the point. The child deserves to know it's father. PERIOD.

So if it makes you feel better to slam her, feel free. I hope it's the highlight of your day. She knows she's made mistakes, your slams are meaningless and not helpful.

I came here for advice and help, not judgment.

No one here has slammed her. What we are trying to get YOU to realize is that people lie. It's human nature. While that may or may not be the case here, the REAL issue is that her decisions are NOT for the best interest of the child.

In effect, she is having a child with one man then deciding on her own who the 'daddy' gets to be. THAT, son, is playing God with the child's life.

Now, justify that if you can.

 

[paulie0130]

Most of this is as new to me as it is to you guys. For the most part our relationship has been about us, but just recently when we started talking about marriage and the future I started asking a bunch of questions, and to be honest I've had lots of questions for her, too. You guys are treading on ground already covered. That's why it's getting frustrating hearing the same questions I've asked all over again. She has ZERO reason to lie to me. At some point you have to just trust, and I've made that choice. Can we just assume the girl is telling the truth and deal with it from that perspective. I understand your doubts, cause I shared them for awhile. I know the situation, you don't, so for the sake of discussion can we assume she's telling the truth? Is it so hard to believe a 20 yr old girl was just naive about the law and what is considered right and wrong in the legal system. She wants to make things right NOW. She can't go back and change the past.

The bio-father HAS made his choice. The world isn't a court room guys. This guy does know this child is his... he just doesn't want any part of this. he wanted her to get an abortion and she said NO. As you said, human nature is to lie - He is telling a lie when he says he doubts paternity. Just b/c there haven't been legal proceedings doesn't mean this guy hasn't made his choice. He abandoned her. Maybe legally he didn't, but in the real world he did. So why should she have any consideration for this guy, and why should she bother with legally forcing paternity on him when he has already made it abundantly clear he doesn't want to be bothered with the boy? Take this from an emotional point of view and her actions make sense. I'm not justifying it, just doing my best to explain why she did what she did. Can we just assume this is the precisely the scenario. I am convinced (and not just b/c of her word) that is all true. Debating the details is dragging this on more and more... let's just assume my girlfriend is not a liar...

Let's put this into a different light... she merely wants to make the current situation - she having sole custody, no support, the bio-father having no rights - PERMANANT. The bio-father likes this situation like it is (he has said this to her multiple times). The only questions is will he feel the same way if she asked him to do whatever needs to be done to make it permanant?? That's an unknown.

If you were in this circumstance, what would you do?
I had a previous post that suggested the idea that she (1) establish paternity, (2) ask the bio-father to give up his legal rights to his son, and (3) and waive her rights to the child support. Can this be done? Is this a good idea? Are their better options?

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Most of this is as new to me as it is to you guys. For the most part our relationship has been about us, but just recently when we started talking about marriage and the future I started asking a bunch of questions, and to be honest I've had lots of questions for her, too. You guys are treading on ground already covered. That's why it's getting frustrating hearing the same questions I've asked all over again. She has ZERO reason to lie to me. At some point you have to just trust, and I've made that choice. Can we just assume the girl is telling the truth and deal with it from that perspective. I understand your doubts, cause I shared them for awhile. I know the situation, you don't, so for the sake of discussion can we assume she's telling the truth? Is it so hard to believe a 20 yr old girl was just naive about the law and what is considered right and wrong in the legal system. She wants to make things right NOW. She can't go back and change the past.

We can accept that the moment YOU accept the fact that this issue is NOT about you or her. It's about the law.

The bio-father HAS made his choice. The world isn't a court room guys.

It is in this issue. Because from the moment a child was involved she gave up the right to make decisions.

This guy does know this child is his... he just doesn't want any part of this. he wanted her to get an abortion and she said NO.

And that is what SHE told you. Sorry, but that means nothing when you want RELEVANT LEGAL advice.

As you said, human nature is to lie - He is telling a lie when he says he doubts paternity. Just b/c there haven't been legal proceedings doesn't mean this guy hasn't made his choice. He abandoned her. Maybe legally he didn't, but in the real world he did.

So, you want us to believe her and yet NOT believe him? Sorry, the LAW doesn't have double standards. When she stands in front of a judge HE/SHE also won't know her and will judge the case on the merits.

So why should she have any consideration for this guy, and why should she bother with legally forcing paternity on him when he has already made it abundantly clear he doesn't want to be bothered with the boy?

Because he was good enough to have sex with and to get pregnant by. He has the same rights as she does. If you don't like that then leave this forum because you're just not intelligent enough to realize the truth.

Take this from an emotional point of view and her actions make sense. I'm not justifying it, just doing my best to explain why she did what she did. Can we just assume this is the precisely the scenario. I am convinced (and not just b/c of her word) that is all true. Debating the details is dragging this on more and more... let's just assume my girlfriend is not a liar...

YOU can assume whatever you want. But, when the law and parent rights are involved, the court will NOT assume. And that is what I'VE been trying to get you to realize. NOTHING you have said to this point matters in law.

Let's put this into a different light... she merely wants to make the current situation - she having sole custody, no support, the bio-father having no rights - PERMANANT. The bio-father likes this situation like it is (he has said this to her multiple times). The only questions is will he feel the same way if she asked him to do whatever needs to be done to make it permanant?? That's an unknown.

And that's fine. UNTIL you try to adopt.

If you were in this circumstance, what would you do?

That is irrelevant.

I had a previous post that suggested the idea that she (1) establish paternity, (2) ask the bio-father to give up his legal rights to his son, and (3) and waive her rights to the child support. Can this be done? Is this a good idea? Are their better options?

there is nothing you can do now. you were told that before. ONCE you get married and are SURE you want to adopt she can start the procedure. But again, YOU will have nothing to do with it until such time as the court allows the adoption.

and until then there's nothing more to say. You are continually justifying her inaction and that's fine for you. But when you come on a legal advice forum and ask such questions then you need to realize we're NOT going to pat you on the head like a child.

you're going to be given REAL advice based on the law. Nothing more and nothing less.

And the next time you come back and tell us how bad the father is remember two things:
1. she chose to have sex with this man so your stones go two ways, and;
2. you will lose any help from me. I'm sick and tired of these games play out because one party wants something without recognizing the RIGHTS of the other party.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

The longer she delays addressing the problem of establishing paternity, the longer the best interest of the child is denied. If things are not as you present here, the longer she delays, the less responsible and mature she wil appear as a mother.

No matter what hapens in the future, paternity will have to be established. Now if it doesn't matter how many men she had sex with or you don't care if she knows who the father really is and can forgive her, encourage her to have a paternity test and clear it up. The court will award child support and then she won't be dependent on you or others to think for her or to control her. There she and the bio dad who ever that is will both have to grow up and take responsibility for their actions, something they should have done when the child was born. As it is now, she has denied that child a father.

If the bio dad, who ever that is doesn't want any form of custody and visitation, that is their choice, most likely she would retain primary custody and he would be eligible to have some sort of visitation if he files for it. It is unlikely that she would lose custody if she is a fit mother. If he really doesn't care, you will be surprised how fast he will seek to terminate parental rights in order to avoid paying child support but you would be surprised how many fathers change when given the opportunity.

You are not a party to this. Get to the bottom of this and quit playing knight in shining armour, that is very controlling.

 

[paulie0130]

You say no slams have been made. In the very last post you called me and my girlfriend stupid ("Not intelligent" I'm intelligent enough to see through veiled insults). I came here very honestly, I am naive in regard to law, I do have a personal agenda here - there is NOTHING wrong with that. If I would pursue that agenda in a way that is illegal or pull legal fast-ones to get my way it IS wrong, but I have never intended to do such. I just wanted some advice about the LEGAL way to go about this... If there isn't one, I'm not going to do it!!! DUH! I didn't know the answer. It was just a question! But you are so stuck on HIS RIGHTS that you have forgotten this is about a child that was abandoned by his father. Simple. But you start going on rants about whether or not my girlfriend is a liar or not and is it really true that the father is disinterested... you can't take his rights away!! ....BLAH BLAH BLAH... I NEVER intended to try and do a fast one and steal his rights. I wanted first know, did he have any rights. Once I established that he did, I just wanted to know what he has to do to either just give those rights up, or gives those rights up to me (adoption). The information you gave was mildly helpful but I have been reading information on the web that totally contradicts what you guys are saying... I'm in PA and other PA legal advice has contradicted you guys... I'm not saying your wrong, I just can't afford to rely on advice from some virtual people who have no vested interest.

Just to spare you the time, I'm done here. I won't be reading anymore. I'm going to finish reading some of these books and then getting a lawyer for my girlfriend. As annoyed as I am on one level, I am also very very very thankful to you as well. My girlfriend has read all of this as well and would also like to thank you all for the advice.

 

[paulie0130]

OK, one last post... I've talked and prayed with my girlfriend about this and SHE decided that what she is going to do is ... (1) establish paternity, (2) do her best to maintain custody (which probably should not be hard, I doubt the father will even fight for it), (3) work out some form of visitation with the father, and (4) waive child support. HER thinking that (1) if the father is to be involved, she doesn't want it to be out of some sense of obligation ("gee, I pay support, I should go see this kid", but out of a pure heart of wanting to be a father... and (2) though support would make life easier, she is content with the way things are. And once we are married, it will be a moot point.

In the long run, we feel this works best because...
(1) If he get involved with raising his son, GOOD. He might be a "bad" influence, but as you have rightly pointed out it is his right to be a "bad" influence... she (and I eventually as stepdad) will just have to hope to be a better "good" influence.
(2) If he does not get involved, my understanding is that I could then adopt (after be married to her for awhile), cause his rights could involuntarily be terminated for abandonment.

I'm sorry this got so negative. My desire was never to offend anyone. I really just needed some help thinking through this. I appreciate what help I got.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

..... But you are so stuck on HIS RIGHTS that you have forgotten this is about a child that was abandoned by his father. ...... is it really true that the father is disinterested... you can't take his rights away!! ....BLAH BLAH BLAH...
Just to spare you the time, I'm done here.

This child was not abandoned by his father no matter how you try to spin it in the legal sense, since paternity was never established, the mother made no effort to establish paternity ot to seek support for her child that was in the best interest of the child. Since you say she is dirt poor, this is significant, because that means the child is doing without both the potential relationship with their father, whom ever that is and the positive benefits that child support offers including some degree of independence for both mother and child.

OK, one last post... I've talked and prayed with my girlfriend about this and SHE decided that what she is going to do is ... (1) establish paternity, (2) do her best to maintain custody (which probably should not be hard, I doubt the father will even fight for it), (3) work out some form of visitation with the father, and (4) waive child support. HER thinking that (1) if the father is to be involved, she doesn't want it to be out of some sense of obligation ("gee, I pay support, I should go see this kid", but out of a pure heart of wanting to be a father... and (2) though support would make life easier, she is content with the way things are. And once we are married, it will be a moot point.

In the long run, we feel this works best because...
(1) If he get involved with raising his son, GOOD. He might be a "bad" influence, but as you have rightly pointed out it is his right to be a "bad" influence... she (and I eventually as stepdad) will just have to hope to be a better "good" influence.
(2) If he does not get involved, my understanding is that I could then adopt (after be married to her for awhile), cause his rights could involuntarily be terminated for abandonment.

I'm sorry this got so negative. My desire was never to offend anyone. I really just needed some help thinking through this. I appreciate what help I got.QUOTE]Please reconsider mom asking for child support, this is an issue of the best welfare of the child, not a matter of false pride. It also allows mom to not be dependent on you for her child's needs. She needs to mature both intellecutally and spiritually. I am glad she has decided to establish paternity, that is in the best interest of the child.

 

[paulie0130]

She does *NEED* me in any way. She is poor, yes. She lives a humbly life and though poor, she is smart and frugal and can meet her and her son's needs. She has been doing so for 3 years. I do not support her right now at all. She lives on her own, and supports her son herself.

I am not *NOT* controlling her or pulling her strings. I have access to internet, she does not... that is why I asked the questions, not her.

Since she can live without support and meet her son's needs on her own, her thought is to not take child support as a test and a tactical choice. One side of her thought is what I mentioned earlier, she would only want him involved if he wanted to be involved with pure intentions. She doesn't want him to live up to his responsiblities out of "guilt." And writing a check for support and not visiting would certainly create guilt.

I actually agree with you guys on this one, but as was pointed out many many times I have no deciding factor here whatsoever. Her choice.

If you re-read my post you will see that I did not say he *LEGALLY* abandoned his son. I said in the real world situation he did. I actually do get what you guys were saying about how the law would not see him as a neglectful or as a "bad" father. That is a BIG reason why she has decided to establish paternity... her instincts (and she is probably right) is that once it is established legally nothing will change and if she is right then after a certain amount of time (not certain what) it would be considered *LEGALLY* abandonment. And if that happens, it is in the best interest of the child that it is LEGALLY known his bio-father abandoned him. And if he has a change of heart, then hopefully that will be a good thing for the boy.

Pleas discontinue making comments about her intellect and maturity. You are ignorant about her. Would you have made those comments to my face? Then why are you writing them? (And if you said YES, you do realize that I would have punched your lights out?)... Just stop with the personal attacks.

 

[Rushia]

She does *NEED* me in any way. She is poor, yes. She lives a humbly life and though poor, she is smart and frugal and can meet her and her son's needs. She has been doing so for 3 years. I do not support her right now at all. She lives on her own, and supports her son herself.

I am not *NOT* controlling her or pulling her strings. I have access to internet, she does not... that is why I asked the questions, not her.

Since she can live without support and meet her son's needs on her own, her thought is to not take child support as a test and a tactical choice. One side of her thought is what I mentioned earlier, she would only want him involved if he wanted to be involved with pure intentions. She doesn't want him to live up to his responsiblities out of "guilt." And writing a check for support and not visiting would certainly create guilt.

I actually agree with you guys on this one, but as was pointed out many many times I have no deciding factor here whatsoever. Her choice.

If you re-read my post you will see that I did not say he *LEGALLY* abandoned his son. I said in the real world situation he did. I actually do get what you guys were saying about how the law would not see him as a neglectful or as a "bad" father. That is a BIG reason why she has decided to establish paternity... her instincts (and she is probably right) is that once it is established legally nothing will change and if she is right then after a certain amount of time (not certain what) it would be considered *LEGALLY* abandonment. And if that happens, it is in the best interest of the child that it is LEGALLY known his bio-father abandoned him. And if he has a change of heart, then hopefully that will be a good thing for the boy.

Pleas discontinue making comments about her intellect and maturity. You are ignorant about her. Would you have made those comments to my face? Then why are you writing them? (And if you said YES, you do realize that I would have punched your lights out?)... Just stop with the personal attacks.

Your gf is NOT serving the best interests of her child. If she was collecting support then she could better help her child.

Threatening to punch a woman's lights out isn't very christian of you is it?