General questions for pursuing physical custody.

[concernedpops]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York.

Since I last posted I have been to court regarding custody and visitation. The judge issued a temporary order stating that I was allowed to pick up my daughter on my regular days off (RDO's) so long as I was responsible about pick up and drop off times at her Pre-K. If anyone remembers mom originally started demanding I see my 3 year old daughter every other weekend as opposed to weekly on my RDO's which had been the norm since her birth. In fact we started off with 50/50 parenting and little by little mom has stripped time away from me depending on her particular cup of tea that month.

Mom has a history of using my interactions with our daughter as punishment for any disputes/disagreements we may have. As I stated before we started off with 50/50 weekly parenting. We then moved to my RDO's but there where exchanges of our daughter whenever the other was at work during most of year one. This worked pretty well as she worked day shifts and I worked night shifts. After an argument over the summer she decided this was no longer a good plan and relegated me to only on my days off during year two. After some objections and a few disputes a few weeks later, child support orders showed up at my door step.

This time around mom's issue is that Thanksgiving fell on my RDO's and she was "supposed to have" our daughter for Thanksgiving this year. She even went so far as to try to get me to believe that I had her the prior year which I did not. The week before Thanksgiving I went to pick up our daughter from school only to find that she was not there. I went to mom's house to get her, not there either. Grandma opened the door and acted like she did not know what was going on so I quickly got on the horn and tried contacting mom. A few minutes later she showed up with our daughter. I kindly asked her not to pick up our daughter on my days, especially without letting me know, and that if she wanted to see her before we went home that I had no problem stopping by and letting her go inside to see her. She deflected and at this point she decided she was deserving of thanksgiving and tried to force me into giving up one of my two RDO's so she could have the holiday. She tried to negotiate with me telling me she'd allow me to have our daughter on all three of my RDO's next weekend which was also my birthday weekend. I refused and showed her the court order stating my RDO's were my days with our daughter at which point she became agitated and started threatening to hit me, cussing me out in front of our daughter smh. I wanted no parts of that confrontation so I told our daughter to say good bye and went on my way. As soon as we got in the car our daughter asked me why mommy wanted to punch me in the face smh. It was embarrassing moment and not something I thought I'd ever have to explain to our daughter but I tried my best to apologize on mom's behalf. Fast forward a week later mom tells me I'm not allowed to take our daughter to school in the mornings, especially without letting her know. My issue with that is mom has to be at work at 4am and she never takes our daughter to school. I told her grandma could use some notification (she takes our daughter to school whenever I can't) but I wasn't sure why she insisted on these notifications, especially since I had already been driving from long island to Manhattan 3 times a week to take our daughter to school since the first week of September. Fast forward another week and now every time I show up to walk our daughter to school grandma follows along as if to supervise the walk to school lol. It is a really awkward situation and takes away from what once was a great experience several times a week for our daughter and I. The kicker is that this supervised walk is for a two block stretch, like c'mon is this all really necessary?

Same issue with phone calls when I don't have our daughter. I request that our daughter be made available for calls after school and mom acts like its always an issue. She has gone from I don't have to call every day to I'm too busy to please only call between 6-7. After a few weeks I've noticed that the reason she feels so inconvenienced is because she is usually not home after school and she is usually not the one picking up our daughter.

Co-parenting with my ex has been so frustrating that I can barely bare it. I try to do everything I possibly can that's in the best interest of our daughter and I always end up with egg on my face. What's even more interesting to me is that whenever there is an issue at school with our daughter mom always reaches out to me and I always address it on one of the mornings I take her to school. I just feel like being a parent doesn't have to be this hard and be surrounded with so much hostility. I constantly try to reason with mom and explain to her that all of this just negatively affects our daughter and she constantly refers to my efforts as me trying to take our daughter away and thus starting a war. She even has implied that she has already begun to seek employment outside of NYS and could careless what I thought about it, had no desire to discuss the potential effects on our daughter.

Through all this I've maintained I want to do what is best for our daughter and even filed for joint custody when I initially submitted my custody/visitation petition. Would any/all of these factors be something that would allow me to consider pursuing physical custody?

 

[CJane]

Had you been getting the child to school late? Seems odd that your temporary order would be contingent upon you getting the child to school on time, if that hadn't been an issue.

But no, nothing you've posted will be enough to get you primary custody, and force a relocation of the child away from Mom. Just not.

That said... you really need to think about your interactions with Mom.

If there's no previous order, you should be THANKFUL that she ever allowed you to see the child at all, because she was certainly under no obligation to do so.

Child support orders do not just "show up" on your doorstep. They're issued after information is gathered (or an attempt is made), calculations are made, and usually after a hearing. And, since both parents are obligated to provide financially for their children, don't play the victim card. Mom did exactly the right thing.

Without an order, there's no such thing as "your" holiday. Again. Be thankful.

I constantly try to reason with mom and explain to her that all of this just negatively affects our daughter and she constantly refers to my efforts as me trying to take our daughter away

"Constantly" doing ANYTHING is irritating. Constantly "explaining" to a parent that they're having a negative impact on the child when they don't do things your way is beyond irritating. You're lucky she talks to you at all. And ... you ARE trying to take the child away.

 

[Just Blue]

https://forum.freeadvice.com/child-custody-visitation-37/mother-constantly-threatening-me-court-way-stripping-me-time-my-608634.html

 

[concernedpops]

Had you been getting the child to school late? Seems odd that your temporary order would be contingent upon you getting the child to school on time, if that hadn't been an issue.
Ma'am I had never gotten our daughter to school late, in fact I never had an opportunity to even get her to school late as mom forced the change from weekly overnights to every other weekend prior to school even starting. My only explanation for why the judge decided to make it a temporary court order contingent on my punctuality is because mom insisted that I would be unable to get our child to school on time because of where I live. That has not been the case thus far.

That said... you really need to think about your interactions with Mom.

If there's no previous order, you should be THANKFUL that she ever allowed you to see the child at all, because she was certainly under no obligation to do so.
Ma'am while I understand your point from a legal standpoint although I disagree morally and so did our judge. The fact that I was consistent with at the very least weekly overnights for the past three years was enough for our judge to disregard mom's wishes and allow for an opportunity to do it "dad's way". Again I completely understand the concept of mom not being obligated however I don't consider being in my child's life a privilege as much as a responsibility and obligation.

Child support orders do not just "show up" on your doorstep. They're issued after information is gathered (or an attempt is made), calculations are made, and usually after a hearing. And, since both parents are obligated to provide financially for their children, don't play the victim card. Mom did exactly the right thing.
What I meant to say was a child support summons showed up at the doorstep. The reason I worded it that way is because I always provided for our child regardless of the circumstances. There were times were multiple times when 1000 of 1200 checks were direct deposited to moms account. I'm not being a victim just stating that I have always and will always own up to my responsibilities as a father which is why a summons to support court caught me by surprise.

Without an order, there's no such thing as "your" holiday. Again. Be thankful.
Ma'am I was not calling Thanksgiving my holiday, she was. Also my order stated I could have our daughter on my regular days off which thanksgiving happened to fall on. For the record I never insist on "my" holiday or "her" holiday as 8/10 times I have to work on holidays. This is why I pursued visitation on all of my weekly RDO's.


"Constantly" doing ANYTHING is irritating. Constantly "explaining" to a parent that they're having a negative impact on the child when they don't do things your way is beyond irritating.
Ma'am where my opinion about what negatively impacts our child is voiced is when her anger boils over and cause her to make threats in front of our child, sadly this was not the first time. It's not a matter of doing it my way but a matter of doing it in a fair and conscious way.

You're lucky she talks to you at all. And ... you ARE trying to take the child away
If I sought to gain physical custody over our daughter it wouldn't be to take her away from her mother but more to provide an environment where mom and dad can speak without any hostility, an environment where mom and dad can get as close to equal parenting time as possible and an environment where someone who wasn't responsible for the creation of our child wouldn't have to shoulder the brunt of the responsibility of raising our child. Being willing to take on the responsibility that has fallen on grandmas plate is not taking away a child, its taking on responsibility as a man in my opinion. Remember throughout this process I have been asking for joint custody while trying to be as big a part of our daughters life as feasible.

But no, nothing you've posted will be enough to get you primary custody, and force a relocation of the child away from Mom.
Thank you, I appreciate your time and consideration. My comments above are just to shed some light and give some additional perspective, not to undermine your expertise in the matter.

 

[concernedpops]

https://forum.freeadvice.com/child-custody-visitation-37/mother-constantly-threatening-me-court-way-stripping-me-time-my-608634.html

The one thing this thread did teach me is to not allow my emotions to control my choice of words because doing so would allow others to misinterpret my intentions. Contrary to the popular belief in that thread I was able to gain some ground on what I was trying to accomplish, without counsel while facing her counsel. Although most of the comments from the volunteers seemed out of line to me at first, they gave me valuable perspective that I was able to use to my advantage during my hearing.

 

[CJane]

You're lucky she talks to you at all. And ... you ARE trying to take the child away
If I sought to gain physical custody over our daughter it wouldn't be to take her away from her mother but more to provide an environment where mom and dad can speak without any hostility, an environment where mom and dad can get as close to equal parenting time as possible and an environment where someone who wasn't responsible for the creation of our child wouldn't have to shoulder the brunt of the responsibility of raising our child. Being willing to take on the responsibility that has fallen on grandmas plate is not taking away a child, its taking on responsibility as a man in my opinion. Remember throughout this process I have been asking for joint custody while trying to be as big a part of our daughters life as feasible.

Ok, well, you getting custody is not going to cure the ills of the relationship between you and Mom. Just like her having custody hasn't. Y'all need to work on your relationship, and not use custody of the child as a tool to fix anything.

And you can't claim that Grandma shouldn't be providing child care, when you were insisting on the child going to daycare. Talk about "shouldering the burden".

 

[concernedpops]

Ok, well, you getting custody is not going to cure the ills of the relationship between you and Mom. Just like her having custody hasn't. Y'all need to work on your relationship, and not use custody of the child as a tool to fix anything.
The reason I would pursue custody is because mom uses our daughter as a tool to hurt me whenever things do not go her way. I know that changing custody wont cure the ills but it will at least start some other form of communication rather than just stripping time away from my daughter and I. I've recommended family counseling, even offering to foot the bill as I should.

And you can't claim that Grandma shouldn't be providing child care, when you were insisting on the child going to daycare. Talk about "shouldering the burden".
The reasons for our child going to daycare is so that she could get a head start on socializing which for my money has paid huge dividends. It is painfully obvious which kids in her class were socialized prior to attending this school and which ones were not.

Also I'm not saying grandma should not provide care just saying that she should not be raising our child for us especially when I am fully willing and capable of taking on the responsibility while being completely open to the fairest co-parenting plan possible.

 

[LdiJ]

Dad, just one thing that you should be aware of in the future. Once permanent orders are set there are going to be provisions for holidays. Holiday schedules trump regular parenting time. Therefore, you won't necessarily get a holiday that happens to fall on your regular day off. You will get the holiday if its your turn to have the holiday, and you will lose some regular time with your child if that holiday happens to fall on one of your regular days off.

So, had this past Thanksgiving been mom's turn for Thanksgiving under your court orders, then it would have been her holiday no matter what, and you would have just lost that day. Please keep that in mind for the future.

 

[Proserpina]

Dad, are you actually qualified to make such an important distinction between socialized and non-socialized 7 year olds?

Because I can pull up about a gazillion articles from legitimate sources clearly stating the opinion that a 7 year old should not require such socializing unless there are genuine problems already existing.

So what's going on, Dad?

Genuine concern, or demanding things going your way?

 

[concernedpops]

Thank you for that sir I will surely keep that in mind. If I may I want to ask how realistic it would be for me to ask for alternate weeks during the summer for visitation? Part of the reasoning for this is one day last summer I went to pick up our daughter and she opened the door for me. Her thirteen year old cousin followed shortly after. I asked if anyone else was home and they said no. I walked in to get our daughters jacket as her cousin could not find it. I asked mom about it and she denied it. Unfortunately for her grandma called about 30 mins later saying she had to run downtown and left our 3 year old with her 13 year old cousin -__-

Any idea how realistic of an arrangement that is to pursue?

 

[Just Blue]

Ok, well, you getting custody is not going to cure the ills of the relationship between you and Mom. Just like her having custody hasn't. Y'all need to work on your relationship, and not use custody of the child as a tool to fix anything.
The reason I would pursue custody is because mom uses our daughter as a tool to hurt me whenever things do not go her way. I know that changing custody wont cure the ills but it will at least start some other form of communication rather than just stripping time away from my daughter and I. I've recommended family counseling, even offering to foot the bill as I should.

And you can't claim that Grandma shouldn't be providing child care, when you were insisting on the child going to daycare. Talk about "shouldering the burden".
The reasons for our child going to daycare is so that she could get a head start on socializing which for my money has paid huge dividends. It is painfully obvious which kids in her class were socialized prior to attending this school and which ones were not.

Also I'm not saying grandma should not provide care just saying that she should not be raising our child for us especially when I am fully willing and capable of taking on the responsibility while being completely open to the fairest co-parenting plan possible.

sigh**************......

 

[Proserpina]

Thank you for that sir I will surely keep that in mind. If I may I want to ask how realistic it would be for me to ask for alternate weeks during the summer for visitation? The reasoning for this is one day last summer I went to pick up our daughter and she opened the door for me. Her thirteen year old cousin followed shortly after. I asked if anyone else was home and they said no. I walked in to get our daughters coat as her cousin could not find it. I asked mom about it and she denied it. Unfortunately for her grandma called about 30 mins later saying she had to run downtown and left our 3 year old with her 13 year old cousin -__-

Any idea how realistic of an arrangement that is to pursue?

Oh for pete's sake, Dad - what's the problem with a 13 year old watching a 3 year old while the "grown-ups" (and I'm using that word loosely) go shopping?

 

[Proserpina]

sigh**************......

Pretty much what I was trying to get across with more words than was necessary

 

[Just Blue]

Pretty much what I was trying to get across with more words than was necessary

All the threads with OP are sighworthy...Sad for the child/ren.

 

[concernedpops]

Prosperina I'm no more qualified than any other concerned parent ..... or you in your legal capacity for that matter (not a shot but neither one of us are child psychologist unless you are in which case I apologize). I've done research just like any other regular Joe would and I found plenty of articles that say socialization in early childhood is beneficial. Also unless your children are put into a social environment how could you notice issues unless they are extreme? Some of the children cried for 45 mins the first day we had to drop them off and some wouldn't even let go of their parents side, our daughter was comfortable. Our daughter already knew left from right, some colors, some of her numbers and was already accustomed to the structured school environment because of how the daycare was run. While I certainly am no expert some of the differences in behavior were not so subtle. By the way our child is 3 and a half not seven. Also part of mom's argument for limiting me to every other weekend was that she wanted to maintain an academic routine. The judge dismissed that as bullocks as schooling isn't "required" until the age of 5 and there aren't any real academic habits being formed. Needless to say it's all a moot point until five years old but conventional wisdom says the earlier you get them involved in structured learning and away from the tvs and ipads the better off they'll be. If you have some articles to the contrary please share I'm open minded and always willing to expand my understanding of whats best for my little lady.