high schools and driving privleges

[notmyname2]

(Or is there something else going on there with parents/guardians and legal documents?)

To answer my own question, yes, actually, there is something else going on with parents/guardians and teenagers with licenses. They do take on joint responsibility and can remove it at any time, and then your license is suspended until there is a new form signed. (and now that I read it, I have a vague memory of that...)
So....I'm just off to buy my parents some chocolates and flowers. Keep them happy...and distracted...

While it may not be the school suspending the license, in some states it is the school that would provide info to the DMV that will cause a suspension. So, while the school may not have the right to suspend a drivers license, they often have the power to have it suspended by those that do have the power.

Yeah, true, there is the whole no pass no drive thing. and truancy comes under that too I think.
But not for breaking the driving regulations.....far as I know anyway...

I assume you received a parking permit after signing a form and, perhaps, paying for the privilege to park in the school's lot. Included, too, was probably a statement that said parking privileges could be suspended or revoked for violation of a school policy.

yes, yes, yes.

I would be very surprised, however, if what you signed said that the school could or would suspend your driver's license. That would be a violation of your state-given right to drive.

No. It doesn't actually say anything about suspending driver's licenses. It does say 'parking privileges'. It also states that driving to school is a privilege but it doesn't then talk about revoking 'driving privilges'. Although those were the principal's words, driving privileges.

He said my driving privileges were suspended and I couldn't park in the carpark. But then when I asked him a few days later he said, no, technically they couldn't really stop me from driving to and from school if I wasn't driving on school property (so, that was kind of confusing...I guess it was really more advice, disguised as an 'order')....but that I'd get punished anyway if I did and they found out...(...and my parents wouldn't be on my side, their reaction to all this has been, well, that serves you right). I don't know how that 'we'd punish you anyway' idea flies with what you say of the 'school's reach'.....

(although you were wise not to, as it was obviously deserved )

yeah....there was nothing that came to mind immediately that would make a good defense for it. I even knew the safety of the cafeteria food wouldn't get us far....

 

[quincy]

Chocolate and flowers is a good idea. And you might keep some chocolates for yourself, to eat in place of the cafeteria food.

Good luck, notmyname - to both you AND your principal.

 

[justalayman]

As for the administrative hearings, all I can tell you is that a person who has his license automatically suspended MUST be told the reason for the suspension and that he has the right to a hearing. Because the time is so short within which a hearing must be requested, I suppose it is possible that many people miss their opportunity to appeal their suspensions. If they hire an attorney right away, the attorney will generally appeal it.

You are missing the point. They are not notified of the suspensions so how could they ever appeal within any prescribed time limitation? The suspensions are discovered only upon a subsequent traffic stop and it is discovered when the police request a check of wants and warrants and license status.

 

[quincy]

Justalayman, these people whom you are talking about MUST have been notified at some point in time about the suspension of their license. A driver's license suspension cannot come as a complete surprise to a driver. If these people you know were not notified that their licenses were suspended (or would be suspended if they did not do certain things. . . like renew it, for instance), then they certainly should hire an attorney to look into the matter.

I am totally puzzled by what you are describing.

 

[justalayman]

Justalayman, these people whom you are talking about MUST have been notified at some point in time about the suspension of their license. A driver's license suspension cannot come as a complete surprise to a driver. .

I am telling you; yes, it was a surprise to them. There was no notification.

The administrative suspensions were not sent to the drivers. That is my point. There was no due process and if there was a time limitation to challenge the suspension, it was long past by the time the suspension was discovered.

Reality doesn't always follow the rules.

In fact, the last one I remember was an Indiana driver who had failed to pay a ticket he received in Michigan. Michigan suspended his driving privileges to drive in Michigan. He was not sent any notification of the suspension and when he was subsequently stopped for some other traffic violation (in Michigan, he had in fact been stopped in Indiana several times since the Michigan suspension was imposed), he was arrested. Granted, the arrest was for more than just the DWLS; FTA, DWLS, but the fact is he was never sent notification of his Michigan driving privileges being suspended.



Think about how many times people on this forum ask about situations where they were never notified of license suspensions. While some of them I have no problem accepting are simply lying, there are a lot that appear to be genuine in their claims of never being notified. I find it hard to believe they are all lying.

 

[Humusluvr]

I am telling you; yes, it was a surprise to them. There was no notification.

The administrative suspensions were not sent to the drivers. That is my point. There was no due process and if there was a time limitation to challenge the suspension, it was long past by the time the suspension was discovered.

Reality doesn't always follow the rules.

In fact, the last one I remember was an Indiana driver who had failed to pay a ticket he received in Michigan. Michigan suspended his driving privileges to drive in Michigan. He was not sent any notification of the suspension and when he was subsequently stopped for some other traffic violation, he was arrested. Granted, the arrest was for more than just the DWLS; FTA, DWLS, but the fact is he was never sent notification of his Michigan driving privileges being suspended.



Think about how many times people on this forum ask about situations where they were never notified of license suspensions. While some of them I have no problem accepting are simply lying, there are a lot that appear to be genuine in their claims of never being notified. I find it hard to believe they are all lying.

Wouldn't "failure to pay the ticket" be the notification of the suspension?

 

[justalayman]

Wouldn't "failure to pay the ticket" be the notification of the suspension?

Nope. Obviously one may or may not be aware of the possibility but even knowledge of the possibility is not notification of the intended action.

You cannot defend against what might happen, only actions taken. Until such time the action has been taken, the person cannot file a challenge so if the person is not specifically notified, they cannot possibly be able to know when the action is taken.

and what can happen is not proof of what will happen. While the action may be available to the state, it in itself does not mean it will be taken.

 

[quincy]

Justalayman, on the ticket itself it says something along the lines of "failure to pay the ticket may result in suspension of your license." The ticket gives information on where to fight a ticket and how to fight a ticket and how long an individual has to fight it - or where, how and when to pay it. This IS notification of the due process rights of the ticketed individual.

It is not up to the state to tell people to read what is written on the ticket or to remind people who have been ticketed of their responsibility to pay a ticket. Nor is it the responsibility of the state to contact people to find out if their residence has changed.

This responsibility lies with each individual - and the fact that some people choose not to take responsibility and choose not to exercise their rights under the law is not the state's concern.

This situation is TOTALLY different than having a driver's license suspension come as a surprise to a driver.

 

[justalayman]

=quincy;2519614]Justalayman, on the ticket itself it says something along the lines of "failure to pay the ticket may result in suspension of your license." The ticket gives information on where to fight a ticket and how to fight a ticket and how long an individual has to fight it - or where, how and when to pay it. This IS notification of the due process rights of the ticketed individual.

I disagree. That is notification of what can happen not necessarily what will happen and it and definitely doesn't provide for what has happened, which is critical if one is to appeal.





You cannot appeal an action that has not been imposed. Especially if there is a time limit as to being able to appeal, failing to provide specific notice of the imposition of the suspension does not provide due process.


.

Nor is it the responsibility of the state to contact people to find out if their residence has changed.

Nobody said anything about a change of residence. The situation I spoke of was an Indiana resident. His residence was the same address each time he was involved with the police.

and to give you a situation where this is extremely important:

a driver gets a ticket. He DOES pay it but for some reason it is not properly recorded as paid.

So, when that ticket is not recorded as paid by the date required, the drivers license is suspended and an FTA warrant is issued.

So now, the driver is driving around without any idea of the problem since, based on your argument, there is no duty to provide any additional notice other than the ticket. The problem is; the guy should not be subject to the arrest. Now, if due process is employed, he will get notification of the suspension and warrant and will investigate and remedy the problem. With your scenario, they guy simply deserves to be arrested and gets to deal with it later while he sets in jail.

You consider that due process?

 

[quincy]

Well, justalayman, then it appears the people you know had their due process rights violated and they should have hired an attorney. If the same thing happens to them in the future, they should immediately hire an attorney.

I suspect these people are not quite telling you the truth about having no notice whatsoever of the suspension until they violated another law and were surprised not only with the ticket for this new violation but with the news that they were driving on a suspended license. . . .

. . . . but, certainly, if this happens, it is worth the cost of an attorney. A licensee must be fully informed and afforded the opportunity to be heard. It's the law.

 

[justalayman]

Well, justalayman, then it appears the people you know had their due process rights violated and they should have hired an attorney. If the same thing happens to them in the future, they should immediately hire an attorney.

I suspect these people are not quite telling you the truth about having no notice whatsoever of the suspension until they violated another law and were surprised not only with the ticket for this new violation but with the news that they were driving on a suspended license. . . .

. . . . but, certainly, if this happens, it is worth the cost of an attorney. A licensee must be fully informed and afforded the opportunity to be heard. It's the law.

I suspect you might be right about one or two not being completely honest or, more likely, simply a victim of their own lack of regard for what shows up in the mail but there have definitely been some that were totally blindsided by the situation.

thanks for the discussion.

 

[quincy]

I am not so naive as to believe that rights violations never occur, justalayman. I can accept that there are people who have been blindsided by a driver's license suspension due to a failure on the part of the state to give proper notice to the licensee and an opportunity for the licensee to be heard. I am just not sure this happens very often. Perhaps it is because I am also not so naive as to believe that people are honest all of the time (although I am SURE they are honest most of the time).

 

[notmyname2]

Thanks guys, the last 20 or so posts in this thread actually became interesting. That was really more what I was looking for rather than "oh, it's a teenager, let's jump to conclusions, and be wise guys about it".

And you might keep some chocolates for yourself, to eat in place of the cafeteria food.

ooooh so much better.

Good luck, notmyname - to both you AND your principal.

Hey, he signed up for this. haha

Thanks!

 

[quincy]

You're welcome, notmyname.

Hopefully you can help to make the remaining months in the school year ones that spare the principal from more re-writes of the school handbook.

 

[notmyname2]

Hopefully you can help to make the remaining months in the school year ones that spare the principal from more re-writes of the school handbook.

I could try. But I'm not promising anything.


Yesterday morning I was walking into school and he called out to me, 'come here, what's that?, what have you got there?'. Yeah, I was swinging a memory stick around - like I usually do with my car keys. lol. He knows too much.

So.....I plan to keep a low profile for a while...