Kids finally have an appointment with a counselor...

[doc2b]

My experience is when I have done an initial consultation with daughters' therapist (she has had two), the therapist meets with the parents first, then sets an appt with the child. I'm sure they are all different, however once the initial consultation is done, a good therapist will get a hit on what the issues are, and meet with the child accordingly, meaning she will determine when or if to ask a parent to be in the room with the child. The therapy is for the child, so certain confidences do apply...so I would leave all that stuff up to the counselor.

I firmly believe dad can go ahead and just take the child, pay for it. The only downside I see, not legally, is that it is good when both parents take the child (take turns in some fashion) so the therapist gets a realistic picture of the child with both parents...even just at transitions. I do know my ex got it COURT ORDERED (as if I were denying him access) that we take turns taking daughter. While I think that was off the top, I do see the importance of both parents being involved, if they can/want to be.

I just went through a similar thing with medi-cal (my insurance, dad provides zero insurance) with dad, also regarding therapy. I thought he had full access...I AM IN CA so this is medical but I would think they are pretty similar benefits....to her records as I have provided him with all numbers, etc. I finally got that straightened out...he should be able to call. I do know there is a number to call, and I think medicaid may well indeed have a list of therapists. Its more cumbersome than private...you have to really convince the worker that the child needs therapy. In our case it was in a court order so much easier.

Bottom line, mom SHOULD absolutely be providing dad with every bit of pertinent medical access information, and if she doesn't, I would make that a request in court.

But the private should be good. I did not understand...regarding TinkerBellLuvr's post about the 5%...does that mean mom can only be ordered to pay 5%? I have always paid half of daughters therapy and for two years it was $90 a session. Before that I was going to suggest, not knowing how much it costs dad for medical insurance, that both parents pay half of the copay bringing the price down a bit.

Sorry so long winded, no coffee yet. good luck, Micha

Thanks for that, Micha!

The 5 % of income is how much is considered reasonable cost for insurance premiums for "additional" people on your private insurance (husband's is $22 for 2 or more dependants per month, for example). Extraordinary medical is split 50/50 between mom and dad (for now,anyway). Luckily, this counselor only has a copay of $35 per session, so we're not in that bad of shape (but for 2 and depending on how many sessions per month, it may get to be alittle more than we can afford-things are really tight right now). Mom is supposed to pay the entire copay until the total for both kids reaches a certain dollar amount, then they split 50/50. We're just going to pick it up until we can't afford it anymore, I guess...

 

[doc2b]

Some people apparently enjoy high drama. Maybe it's like a cheap drug for them.

Assuming Dad has been clear that he needs this access and Mom has surely told him "no" already, Dad should send Mom a no nonsense letter explaining that she is obligated to provide him access, cite any relevant language from the CO, and let her know she has until xx/xx/xxxx to provide the access or he will need to seek a resolution elsewhere, but that if he bears time and expense in doing so, he will be seeking relief from that as she is obligated to provide this to him.

Thank you Wiley...I surely don't understand how anyone can enjoy drama...especially when it's all at the expense of their own kiddos. Maybe I should be finding a counselor too-this is really getting to me, and I guess I shouldn't be letting it.

I'll pass the info on to dad, so he can make one last request before moving forward with anything. Thanks!

 

[doc2b]

Some progress...

Now...dad got off the phone with the privacy manager at Medicaid (who also could not give him any info specific to the kiddos), but she was able to tell him that "if" they have straight medicaid (which they do), there are only two facilities that take it in our county that also take his private insurance. I called the offices for him to find out their hours of operation and verify the insurances they take, and they take the primary ins. in the family clinic, and the Medicaid (secondary) in the children's clinic-but not both in either one. So basically, there is no where in the county that will take both dad's insurance and the kid's medicaid, so all that digging to coordinate benefits for nothing. At least now he knows

I wanted to quote this post from page one so it doesn't get lost... Now he can't take the kiddos anyway, right?

This just came through by email (just read it to dad at work)...

Dad,

You do not have my consent for taking the kids there. In fact, I want to wait to see if Daughter has a medical issue for her stomach. I do not believe the kids need counseling yet. I think this would create undue anxiety for them. Daughter has an appointment at doctor's on xx/xx/09 at xx:xxam.

Mom

After stating she had an objection to paying the copay by email, she sent another one asking if he was still taking the kiddos. He replied yes, and this was the response she just sent. WTH is he supposed to do? This is getting ridiculous...the counseling was "prescribed" by the kids' pcp. How does counseling cause undue anxiety to kids that are having a hard time coping with the crap-pile that was formed after their parents divorce?

 

[Ohiogal]

doc2b asked what percentage of income is "reasonable" for insurance

The answer is:
5%

So, if you make make $600/week, they consider it "reasonable" if the parent pays no more than $30/week for that child's insurance.

I know that I pay WAYYYYY more than that percentage, but I also cover other children because I am supposed to cover my child.

Yes but to determine reasonable you need to break it down to that child specifically. So if the cost of insurance is $100 per week ($30 for employee and $30 for spouse with the children's portion of the insurance $40 a week )and there are four children on the policy then each child's portion is $10.

 

[Ohiogal]

Now...dad got off the phone with the privacy manager at Medicaid (who also could not give him any info specific to the kiddos), but she was able to tell him that "if" they have straight medicaid (which they do), there are only two facilities that take it in our county that also take his private insurance. I called the offices for him to find out their hours of operation and verify the insurances they take, and they take the primary ins. in the family clinic, and the Medicaid (secondary) in the children's clinic-but not both in either one. So basically, there is no where in the county that will take both dad's insurance and the kid's medicaid, so all that digging to coordinate benefits for nothing. At least now he knows

I wanted to quote this post from page one so it doesn't get lost... Now he can't take the kiddos anyway, right?

Truthfully while dad could be in contempt I would STILL take the children and do what is best for them in this instance. It is NOT hurting the child. They aren't missing school right? And dad has joint legal custody? And it was prescribed by the PCP? And dad is not going to send mom bills for it?

 

[doc2b]

Truthfully while dad could be in contempt I would STILL take the children and do what is best for them in this instance. It is NOT hurting the child. They aren't missing school right? And dad has joint legal custody? And it was prescribed by the PCP? And dad is not going to send mom bills for it?

Thank you, OG

This wasn't a hard decision for him at all, and he has never once violated the CO for any reason...but he's decided he's going to take them...he really feels they need it, and not only did their pcp say it was needed (wrote it down on a script pad-not really a script, but same idea), but their teachers and school principal have been recommending it since early last year. They're aren't missing school (it's an evening appointment), it's on dad's time and mom was informed of all the info early and was invited to show. Dad has joint legal and physical. Dad is not going to send mom bills for it, but would like to ask for mom to help out when they have their upcoming court date since she is technically CO'd to pay half the bills (he doesn't want to ask fo retroactive reimbursement or anything, and would be happy even if it's just a portion of the copay)

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Yes but to determine reasonable you need to break it down to that child specifically. So if the cost of insurance is $100 per week ($30 for employee and $30 for spouse with the children's portion of the insurance $40 a week )and there are four children on the policy then each child's portion is $10.

Because I choose to have the older children on the policy, the percentage attributable to my daughter does decrease. The ONLY reason the older children are on my policy was that I had an order for youngest to have insurance and daddy wouldn't cover older daughter. Even with the older children on the policy, I am STILL over the 5% attributable to kiddo.

 

[doc2b]

The counselor's office just called and said that mom has called them to cancel the kid's appointments and will never consent to them seeking counseling, and if they see the kids they and the dad will be facing legal consequences. The staff was apologetic, but I understand they have to protect themselves.

So, no counseling, no help for the kids. She just doesn't care. Why is this okay? My husband is in tears right now because every time he tries to do the right thing by his kids, she throws up a road block. I am so sad right now, I don't know what to tell him and I can't help anymore...

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Hate to say it, but take it to court. They have joint legal custody - they get to agree, or the court decrees it.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Now, I have used the services of FOC to write letters to the other parent to "help" them find the way. Now, my X chooses to NOT listen, but I have it documented that I tried.

 

[wileybunch]

The counselor's office just called and said that mom has called them to cancel the kid's appointments and will never consent to them seeking counseling, and if they see the kids they and the dad will be facing legal consequences. The staff was apologetic, but I understand they have to protect themselves.

So, no counseling, no help for the kids. She just doesn't care. Why is this okay? My husband is in tears right now because every time he tries to do the right thing by his kids, she throws up a road block. I am so sad right now, I don't know what to tell him and I can't help anymore...

I really don't mean to be harsh, but you and Dad are overreacting. Take a deep breath and file a motion to get an order for this. It's more time and effort, but those are his kids and he should be willing to do that much for them. Forget about that SHE is making it difficult, that SHE should be easier about it, just treat it like any obstacle that gets in the way of counseling -- provider changes, insurance hoops to jump through, children's unwillingness -- and just press on and do what needs to be done.

Keep in mind -- Mom has as much right to have a say in what goes on with her kids as Dad does. She apparently feels strongly about it. She may be dead wrong. But, she feels the stomach issues are medical and wants that to be the focus and feels counseling in and of itself will be traumatizing to the child. She may be wrong about that, but she's certainly not alone in thinking counseling has a stigma associated with it. Of course, she may be stopping the counseling b/c she doesn't want her own actions under a spotlight ....

All this to say that you and Dad need to stop falling apart over these obstacles and just press on. Period.

 

[Ohiogal]

Because I choose to have the older children on the policy, the percentage attributable to my daughter does decrease. The ONLY reason the older children are on my policy was that I had an order for youngest to have insurance and daddy wouldn't cover older daughter. Even with the older children on the policy, I am STILL over the 5% attributable to kiddo.

Ouch. I sympathize. But IF you can afford insurance and IF you can still afford food, utilities and such after paying insurance, then keep the insurance.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

It is cheaper to keep the insurance than to try to help pay for all the doctor visits and meds for older college student. Since the insurance is pre-tax, it lowers my taxable income & qualifies me for more tax credits. So, it's not all bad.

 

[txmom512]

I really don't mean to be harsh, but you and Dad are overreacting. Take a deep breath and file a motion to get an order for this. It's more time and effort, but those are his kids and he should be willing to do that much for them. Forget about that SHE is making it difficult, that SHE should be easier about it, just treat it like any obstacle that gets in the way of counseling -- provider changes, insurance hoops to jump through, children's unwillingness -- and just press on and do what needs to be done.

Keep in mind -- Mom has as much right to have a say in what goes on with her kids as Dad does. She apparently feels strongly about it. She may be dead wrong. But, she feels the stomach issues are medical and wants that to be the focus and feels counseling in and of itself will be traumatizing to the child. She may be wrong about that, but she's certainly not alone in thinking counseling has a stigma associated with it. Of course, she may be stopping the counseling b/c she doesn't want her own actions under a spotlight ....

All this to say that you and Dad need to stop falling apart over these obstacles and just press on. Period.

I have to tell you something really similar happened to me as a kid... My mom took me to our doctor who said my stomach problems were caused by stress and said to see a counselor. My mom didn't agree & took me for a second opinion - turns out I did have a physical problem, it really wasn't all in my head. I can't really blame mom for wanting to make sure it's not physical first.

Honestly, though - my daughter's ped said before she sent my dd to a specialist for her stomach issues, she wanted to put dd on anti-acids (pepsid or zantac) first. She said the first thing the specialist would do is just that and they told her not to waste anyone's time or money - to try that first. She said that stomach problems caused by stress in children is VERY VERY common these days. Frighteningly common she said. (and she's talking about regular kids w/ regular lives) She said try Pepsid, if that doesn't work Zantac (because the different ingredients work for different people) - she said to give it to them twice a day every day. She said that will stop the build up of stomach acid and should do the trick. You would Not Believe the difference it made!

 

[doc2b]

I really don't mean to be harsh, but you and Dad are overreacting. Take a deep breath and file a motion to get an order for this. It's more time and effort, but those are his kids and he should be willing to do that much for them. Forget about that SHE is making it difficult, that SHE should be easier about it, just treat it like any obstacle that gets in the way of counseling -- provider changes, insurance hoops to jump through, children's unwillingness -- and just press on and do what needs to be done.

Keep in mind -- Mom has as much right to have a say in what goes on with her kids as Dad does. She apparently feels strongly about it. She may be dead wrong. But, she feels the stomach issues are medical and wants that to be the focus and feels counseling in and of itself will be traumatizing to the child. She may be wrong about that, but she's certainly not alone in thinking counseling has a stigma associated with it. Of course, she may be stopping the counseling b/c she doesn't want her own actions under a spotlight ....

All this to say that you and Dad need to stop falling apart over these obstacles and just press on. Period.

I understand that a lot of this is overreacting (especially since I'm pregnant-I'm nothing BUT emotional right now ). Dad is going to get his ducks in a row and then go to court to see if it can be ordered. He called the PCP, who is now writing a report (or whatever it would be called) stating that they have already done extensive testing and some prelimnary treatment has been started for her stomach problems and headaches (nothing was found on ultrasound or xray, and they are waiting to test further until she finishes her trial on the meds they prescribed), and that they highly recommend counseling-not necessarily as a "cure" to the stomach problems and headaches, but because they have a strong belief that the kiddos both need some therapy because of the issues brought about in their environment after the divorce, and this could help lessen some of the problems.

I do understand that they both have a say in the medical decisions, and that there are many reasons why she may not want to the kids to go in for therapy...she just keeps floundering (which , I also understand she has a right to do). She was the one to contact dad first about getting the kids into counseling this go-round, and said that she had placed them on a 2-3 month waiting list with a Dr. that took both insurances (there isn't one anywhere in the county and she wouldn't tell him who). As soon as dad made an appointment for the kids that was much sooner, she said no because her insurance wasn't accepted there. He told her he'd cover it for now, and she comes back with an objection that it would cause "undue anxiety" and she wouldn't consent. I think that's where most of the frustration comes from...it comes so close, and then she pulls a 180 and pretends like she never said it was okay to begin with.

But yes, he needs to press on...he'd do anything for his kids (it's just wearing him down). He's got the dr's recommendation coming, a letter from the counselor's office stating that mom called to cancel and her reasons, copies of the emails between them regarding the counseling appointments and insurance issues, and he's waiting on requesting letters from the kids' teachers because he didn't know if that was something that he would need or not.

Thank you, Wiley